Speaking in tongues and the Holy Spirit

[My Rock]

These kinds of stories will likely convince nobody because they are so challenged that nobody can get to the root of any story like this. The story may be true, or the story may be "embellished"--how am I to know?

I will agree with that assessment, because the only ones to truly know, are the ones that were there.

The only thing that truly convinces me of anything is a prophetic voice that speaks moral truth with divine authority. Period. Prophetic Voice--Moral Truth---Divine Authority: "Thus says the Lord, Be Holy, as I am Holy."

Hypothetical situation of course. But if you personally was dead for 45 min. and know beyond doubt God raised you from the dead. Would you want people to think your lying? It is about letting others know of the power of God, which should instill faith in the heart. Not about self gratification but humbly acknowledging what God is doing in the world.

When the power of God is on display there are two reactions:
1. You run in fear and doubt
2. You accept by faith and give praise to God

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes , not all at the same time .

I understand . I would like to understand more about the gift of interpretation , which I would have that understanding if I had the Gift of Tongues interpretation . I believe the Gift of Speaking in Tongues is more in prevalence than the Gift of Interpretation of Tongues is .

I agree.

I will pray for your congregation to have someone with the Gift of Interpretation of tongues .

Thanks, but if God really wants us to know something, He can always just speak to us in English.

 

[Hopeful 2]

There isn't enough information in Acts 2 to say the promise is tongues. Yes it can be said the promise is the gift of the Holy Spirit, but Scripture already confirms that not everyone gets the gifts of tongues

Please remind me where that statement is made.

and Paul said it wasn't the most desirable gift or the greatest gift. The gift of the Holy Spirit should be understood to be whatever the gift is that God wants to give. Maybe it's going to be the gift of the tongues, maybe it's not, but prophecy is greater than tongues and more deisrable.
1 Corinthians 14
5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

In a group context, and especially when visitors are present, I agree with you.
But in private prayer, nothing builds me up, and adds to my confidence, like speaking in tongues.

 

[Hopeful 2]

This is one of the characteristic beliefs in Oneness Pentecostalism and the vast majority of Christians say it's rank heresy.

I don't really care what either say.
My pattern of what to follow is in the bible.

A Christian is someone who is a follower of the Christ who believes in and practices his teachings.

I agree with that. Which means the disobedient are not Christians !

Jesus never taught anything about those who are true Christians will speak in tongues.

No, He never did.
But like you, He did say they would be obedient to God. (John 10:27)

I believe what you have said, is to place the horse before the carriage.

Be more specific, please.

True Christians do the will of the Father and the will of the Father is to listen to His Son and practice righteousness. After that it's possible to receive gifts of the Holy Spirit. A true Christian does the will of God and true Christians can receive the gift of tongues.

True, but doesn't that means those without the gift(s) are not true ?

Practicing spiritual gifts will by no means help anyone on their judgement day, but rather those trees who produce good fruits will have mercy and favor.

Nothing will help on judgement day, as it will be too late by then.

 

[Runningman]

Please remind me where that statement is made.

Paul said to not forbid speaking in tongues in 1 Cor. 14:39 and also said he wished they all could speak in tongues in 1 Cor. 14:5. So that infers that not everyone can speak in tongues, but they should desire the gifts 1 Corinthians 14:1. So why would someone need to desire something they are supposed to be guaranteed?

In a group context, and especially when visitors are present, I agree with you.
But in private prayer, nothing builds me up, and adds to my confidence, like speaking in tongues.

I have no problem with tongues, but I am suspicious why someone would connect it to salvation.

 

[eddif]

The Scriptures do not say that these "groanings" are "Tongues." For some it may be Tongues, and for others it may simply be cries for help.

Not openly.
When Jesus spoke the parable of the sower, he said nothing about the seed being the Word of God. The crowd heard nothing about the gnkroind being men’s hearts.

We only learn about the hidden message from the private conversation Jesus had with the disciples.

On the day of Pentecost Peter explained what was going on (by revelation of what Joel had said).

When we go through scriptures (wheels within wheels are sometimes revealed. Others will say it does not say that. I get denial of revelation (some need to be denied).
A blank denial pass is not issued. One of the spiritual gifts is the discerning of spirits. Bad spirit or Holy Spirit? I do not claim to have that gift.

Hidden in human anatomy are special
hints. I won’t go there.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[RandyK]

Not openly.
When Jesus spoke the parable of the sower, he said nothing about the seed being the Word of God. The crowd heard nothing about the gnkroind being men’s hearts.

We only learn about the hidden message from the private conversation Jesus had with the disciples.

On the day of Pentecost Peter explained what was going on (by revelation of what Joel had said).

When we go through scriptures (wheels within wheels are sometimes revealed. Others will say it does not say that. I get denial of revelation (some need to be denied).
A blank denial pass is not issued. One of the spiritual gifts is the discerning of spirits. Bad spirit or Holy Spirit? I do not claim to have that gift.

Hidden in human anatomy are special
hints. I won’t go there.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Yes, Jesus has hidden messages for those with faith. Those who reject faith are left with a pretty boring story.

I don't, however, see this having to do with "groanings." We "groan" because in our carnal weaknesses we are myopic and unable to articulate what we need. So we "groan."

We have faith, but we are still near-sighted, and unable to pursue God's will without further light. When Jesus told a parable sometimes he had to explain the story to others, but he did so only to those who had faith.

 

[RandyK]

I will agree with that assessment, because the only ones to truly know, are the ones that were there.

Hypothetical situation of course. But if you personally was dead for 45 min. and know beyond doubt God raised you from the dead. Would you want people to think your lying? It is about letting others know of the power of God, which should instill faith in the heart. Not about self gratification but humbly acknowledging what God is doing in the world.

When the power of God is on display there are two reactions:
1. You run in fear and doubt
2. You accept by faith and give praise to God

I'll give you a personal example of what I'm talking about (I'm not disagreeing with you!). When I was a child, perhaps 10 or 11, I was climbing under a college sports stadium stands. The seating was supported by a bracing metal structure, and I was under the seating in the area of the highest part of the metal support structure.

I suddenly passed out, and felt the bars hitting my arms on the way down maybe 10 feet below. I remember landing on my rear end as if the ground was as soft as a pillow. I had no marks on my arms, no injuries, no pain, and no sign of falling that far without any control whatsoever!

I think God let that happen not just because I am susceptible to fainting, which obviously I was, but more importantly, to show me that God is in control of my life even in my weaknesses. His angels can protect us in cases of accidents, to safeguard His call on our life.

Now you can accept this story or reject it. I don't know what to tell you?

There was another incident where I had made a pact with God to try to keep my speeding in my motorcycle down to around 5 over and not much more. One day at night I picked up a hitchhiker, and decided to show off, going down this twisted, turning highway at a high rate of speed.

I knew this road well, which was only about a mile in length, ending at a store and a marina. About half way down the road a cop set his lights flashing, and I gradually slowed down until I reached the marina. A new law had been passed prohibiting riding without helmits and I looked back to apologize to the hitchhiker in case he gets a ticket for riding without a helmit.

There was nobody there! The back of my motorcycle had a high backrest, and there was no way for the hitchhiker to jump off! I waited for the cop to approach and wondered if he would say anything about a hitchhiker jumping off?

He said nothing. He just gave me an expensive ticket!

Now, you can believe me or not. I have more stories, but that's all they are--stories. Is there value in them? Certainly, it will have value to those who believe them, but only if they are true. God knows.

 

[My Rock]

So we "groan."

Be careful and notice what it says. "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

If the Scripture meant we "graon" it would be spirit little s not Spirit.

 

[eddif]

I don't, however, see this having to do with "groanings." We "groan" because in our carnal weaknesses we are myopic and unable to articulate what

This is the way I look at groanings.
A person in a group that does not believe in tongues being manifested today. That person may groan in his spirit. Given years of growth they may groan and bypass tongues and Go to prophecy.

The people in Ezekiel’s day sighed over the sins of Israel. Those sighs were recognized by God and saved from slaughter in Jerusalem.

Groans and sighs may not be the same word, but then translation has happened.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[My Rock]

I'll give you a personal example of what I'm talking about (I'm not disagreeing with you!). When I was a child, perhaps 10 or 11, I was climbing under a college sports stadium stands. The seating was supported by a bracing metal structure, and I was under the seating in the area of the highest part of the metal support structure.

I suddenly passed out, and felt the bars hitting my arms on the way down maybe 10 feet below. I remember landing on my rear end as if the ground was as soft as a pillow. I had no marks on my arms, no injuries, no pain, and no sign of falling that far without any control whatsoever!

I think God let that happen not just because I am susceptible to fainting, which obviously I was, but more importantly, to show me that God is in control of my life even in my weaknesses. His angels can protect us in cases of accidents, to safeguard His call on our life.

Now you can accept this story or reject it. I don't know what to tell you?

There was another incident where I had made a pact with God to try to keep my speeding in my motorcycle down to around 5 over and not much more. One day at night I picked up a hitchhiker, and decided to show off, going down this twisted, turning highway at a high rate of speed.

I knew this road well, which was only about a mile in length, ending at a store and a marina. About half way down the road a cop set his lights flashing, and I gradually slowed down until I reached the marina. A new law had been passed prohibiting riding without helmits and I looked back to apologize to the hitchhiker in case he gets a ticket for riding without a helmit.

There was nobody there! The back of my motorcycle had a high backrest, and there was no way for the hitchhiker to jump off! I waited for the cop to approach and wondered if he would say anything about a hitchhiker jumping off?

He said nothing. He just gave me an expensive ticket!

Now, you can believe me or not. I have more stories, but that's all they are--stories. Is there value in them? Certainly, it will have value to those who believe them, but only if they are true. God knows.

Wonderful and I do believe. Hebrews 13:2, "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." I have entertained angels unaware twice. Once my wife and I were shopping and was using the last of our money and even had to put some stuff back. A very nice older woman, who would have had to have a walker had she not been using the cart as one. Gave us $100 cash and said God told me to give this to you. I gave it to my wife and turned around to thank her and she was gone. Went immediately outside and couldn't find her.

Another time and this one blows my mind at what God can do. I was outside at walmart an older gentlemen, again old and slow, was loading groceries in his vehicle. At that same time my wife was coming out with the groceries and I asked her if we could help that gentleman. She said what gentleman. I looked and both he and the car were gone. He had a full cart and couldn't have loaded them that quickly.

 

[RandyK]

Be careful and notice what it says. "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

If the Scripture meant we "graon" it would be spirit little s not Spirit.

When Jesus said the "spirit" is willing, with a little "s," he was referring to our spirit's dependence upon the Holy Spirit. We can do *nothing* in our spirit without the help of God's Spirit, particularly when it comes to serving God. But even when we serve God properly, what we do in the Spirit of God is still "weak," and requires "groaning." My opinion only...

 

[RandyK]

Wonderful and I do believe. Hebrews 13:2, "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." I have entertained angels unaware twice. Once my wife and I were shopping and was using the last of our money and even had to put some stuff back. A very nice older woman, who would have had to have a walker had she not been using the cart as one. Gave us $100 cash and said God told me to give this to you. I gave it to my wife and turned around to thank her and she was gone. Went immediately outside and couldn't find her.

Another time and this one blows my mind at what God can do. I was outside at walmart an older gentlemen, again old and slow, was loading groceries in his vehicle. At that same time my wife was coming out with the groceries and I asked her if we could help that gentleman. She said what gentleman. I looked and both he and the car were gone. He had a full cart and couldn't have loaded them that quickly.

Yea, it's amazing isn't it? I could tell more stories, but they are the same--can't be proven. But the value appears to be in the truthfulness behind telling them. Some "angel unaware" stories are questionable to my wife and me. She has had at least one experience like that where the seeming "angel" didn't disappear. He just acted very different from anyone around them, and spoke unusual wisdom. Sometimes I don't know if they're real people who are gifted like angels or actual angels! ;)

 

[My Rock]

When Jesus said the "spirit" is willing, with a little "s," he was referring to our spirit's dependence upon the Holy Spirit. We can do *nothing* in our spirit without the help of God's Spirit, particularly when it comes to serving God. But even when we serve God properly, what we do in the Spirit of God is still "weak," and requires "groaning." My opinion only...

Fair enough

 

[My Rock]

Yea, it's amazing isn't it? I could tell more stories, but they are the same--can't be proven. But the value appears to be in the truthfulness behind telling them. Some "angel unaware" stories are questionable to my wife and me. She has had at least one experience like that where the seeming "angel" didn't disappear. He just acted very different from anyone around them, and spoke unusual wisdom. Sometimes I don't know if they're real people who are gifted like angels or actual angels! ;)

It is a total mystery. But because of those experience and Scripture I try and never fail to entertain strangers as long as they are not trying to harm me or if I discern their spirit as evil or off.

 

[RandyK]

It is a total mystery. But because of those experience and Scripture I try and never fail to entertain strangers as long as they are not trying to harm me or if I discern their spirit as evil or off.

My brother, who is one of the most honest people I know, as well as a certified pastor, told me he saw a very large angel standing in front of a church service once. I treat interesting "strangers" with the utmost respect, as often as I think there may be more to them. But I should always be proper with everybody (fat chance!).... ;)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Paul said to not forbid speaking in tongues in 1 Cor. 14:39 and also said he wished they all could speak in tongues in 1 Cor. 14:5. So that infers that not everyone can speak in tongues, but they should desire the gifts 1 Corinthians 14:1. So why would someone need to desire something they are supposed to be guaranteed?

I can't agree with your findings.
Paul wants them all to speak in tongues, but wants them to prophesy even more.
I see no lack of the gift of tongues with anyone.

I have no problem with tongues, but I am suspicious why someone would connect it to salvation.

Tongues was the first sign of anyone receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It still is.

If a new convert couldn't speak with tongues, he had better have some other gift with which to glorify God, or doubt will not be excised concerning his heart.

 

[My Rock]

If a new convert couldn't speak with tongues, he had better have some other gift with which to glorify God, or doubt will not be excised concerning his heart.

To put clarification to this statement.

1 Corinthians Chapter 12:7, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
According to Paul anyone (given to every man to profit) who is truly born again will profit from the gifts and in verse 11 he says every believer will have at least 1 of the 9 gifts of the spirit. (dividing to every man)

• Wisdom: The ability to understand and apply spiritual truths.
• Knowledge: The ability to recall and communicate spiritual information.
• Faith: This is a deeper level of faith that involves actively seeking and receiving the supernatural abilities bestowed by the Holy Spirit. It often requires a more intentional pursuit and a greater level of spiritual maturity.
• Healing: The ability to restore physical or spiritual health.
• Miracles: The ability to perform supernatural acts.
• Prophecy: The ability to receive and communicate messages from God.
• Discernment of Spirits: The ability to distinguish between good and evil spirits. (This is an awesome one to have)
• Tongues: The ability to speak in unknown languages.
• Interpretation of Tongues: The ability to understand and explain the meaning of tongues.

 

[eddif]

Yes , not all at the same time .

I understand . I would like to understand more about the gift of interpretation , which I would have that understanding if I had the Gift of Tongues interpretation . I believe the Gift of Speaking in Tongues is more in prevalence than the Gift of Interpretation of Tongues is . I will pray for your congregation to have someone with the Gift of Interpretation of tongues .

If you watch a secular intrepter translate (say English to Spanish) it just flows.

There is no human way to interpret tongues. If a person gets the gift of tongues by grace, then all gifts come not by works).

We have not because:
We do not ask
Or
We ask for the wrong reason.

eddif

 

[hawkman]

There is no human way to interpret tongues. If a person gets the gift of tongues by grace, then all gifts come not by works).

Sometimes there can be a someone present that their language matches the language that the tongues message from the Holy Spirit is in . Like this . The way is was in the Second chapter of Acts .

My wife told me of one such service she attended . There was message given out in tongues and there was the pause after waiting for an interpretation but no one spoke with an interpretation which was not normally what happens . As everyone was leaving the service a visitor to the church that night told the pastor that the message in tongues had been for him because it was a language that he spoke .

We have not because:
We do not ask
Or
We ask for the wrong reason.

I can agree with this in part . Our timetable is not God's timetable .