Bible Study The Vail of Christ

[smaller]

I have NIV. It says, So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ this way, we do so no longer.

It says worldly view. That we just die, and that is it? That is how I saw the world before Christ. Flesh just dies?

I only brought it up because I have heard the 'teaching' that if someone says Jesus is not 'in their respective flesh' that is the spirit of the anti-Christ, and I do not believe that was what John was speaking of. We have the 'seed' or PROMISE of the FULLNESS of Christ planted in our dishonorable, corrupt, weak, natural physical body, but what exactly that is to be is presently obscured, or masked, or veiled so to speak by the contrariness between the flesh (in it's deadly state) and The Spirit, which are contrary to one another by nature. Gal. 5:17, 1 Cor. 15:43-49

Our 'real' life in His Fullness we do not yet know:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

 

[ezrider]

I disagree with you here Brother. I think it's purpose was to signify to all that they did not need an intercessor (Priest) anymore to go before God and ask forgiveness for their sins. Now we all have access to our Lord God individually.

I am not really sure why you feel the need to disagree with me, I can certainly see the point that you are trying to make, but that in no way should discount or be in disagreement to the point that I made about the temple being left desolate.

Matthew 24:38-39
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I only brought it up because I have heard the 'teaching' that if someone says Jesus is not 'in their respective flesh' that is the spirit of the anti-Christ, and I do not believe that was what John was speaking of. We have the 'seed' or PROMISE of the FULLNESS of Christ planted in our dishonorable, corrupt, weak, natural physical body, but what exactly that is to be is presently obscured, or masked, or veiled so to speak by the contrariness between the flesh (in it's deadly state) and The Spirit, which are contrary to one another by nature. Gal. 5:17, 1 Cor. 15:43-49

Our 'real' life in His Fullness we do not yet know:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

I agree with you.

 

[smaller]

I agree with you.

I love it when that happens! heh heh

 

[Edward]

I am not really sure why you feel the need to disagree with me, I can certainly see the point that you are trying to make, but that in no way should discount or be in disagreement to the point that I made about the temple being left desolate.

Matthew 24:38-39
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Oh, I see. I thought that you were making the point that, that was the total significance of the veil being rent in two. I'm on my second cup of coffee still. I'll wake up soon Brother, lol.

 

[Chopper]

I'm wondering why you think that there is still a veil or vail concealing the fact that Jesus the Messiah is the fulfillment of all the doctrines of the Jewish Nation. Because an unsaved man, or an unsaved Jew is blinded to seeing Jesus in the Old Testament teachings, that in no way implies that a man who is saved thru faith in Jesus Christ is blind as well.

I believe that the veil of understanding the Old Testament has been removed from the minds of all believers in the Christ of God, Jesus. Why? Because the Holy Spirit has taken up residence in a believers life (Temple). The unction, or anointing, 1John 2:20 "But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge."

Conclusion? Unbelievers are still blinded to the Old Testament Scriptures but those who have put their trust in the Savior for Salvation, the veil, or vail, has been lifted. The Old Testament writings are now full of the light of understanding that the Holy Spirit places in the path of the eyes of a born again believer in Jesus as he reads and studies the Law & Prophets.

 

[Sinthesis]

When I read the gospels, it is apparent to me that Jesus never sought adoration, he even shunned it; he always commanded that they should worship God. When he performed miracles, the people praised God, and gave glory to God. When I read these versus in the book of Deuteronomy, I often wonder if the church has not in fact taken the image of the man Jesus, and have made that image their God. Yet the image of the man Jesus is that of a humble servant, and a brother. When I read the red letters, I hear the voice of those words, and that voice is spirit; I see no similitude, but only the voice of the Word.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

I am not going to answer that question for you. I have put up 5 posts of scriptures and comments about the vail of Christ, but you didn't bother to make any comments on them.

Instead, you try and make this thread about me, and it is not. I guess maybe I should be rude in way, but really, if you can't comment on the scriptures or the comments that I posted, then there really is no reason to comment at all, is there?

Maybe I should ask you. Do you worship the image of a man for a God?

I worship the Image of God the Father as the Man Jesus Christ who is God the Son. I believe Jesus Christ is God. Do you? I ask because it seems from your above posts that you do not. It seems that you equate the worship of Jesus Christ with idolatry disguised behind a veil. Perhaps I've misread your message. You could clear up my confusion if you would admit that you believe Jesus is God. When I read the gospels, it is clear to me that Jesus does accept worship, that this is not considered idolatry, and can only be righteous if Jesus Christ is God.

Matt 2:11
Matt 14:33
Matt 28:9-10
Matt 28:16-17
Luke 24:51-52
John 9:37-38
Hebrews 1:6

 

[ezrider]

I'm wondering why you think that there is still a veil or vail concealing the fact that Jesus the Messiah is the fulfillment of all the doctrines of the Jewish Nation.

Wherein did I say that the vail concealed the fact that Jesus is the Messiah? That is something that you have added onto of which I did not say.

I said pretty clearly that the vail conceals the Glory of Christ, which was afterwards to be revealed, By the Holy Spirit.


Do you think the Peter and the other disciples did not understand the Jesus was the Messiah? They walked side by side with the man in the flesh for more than three years, and yet when He was risen, they did not know him, until he revealed himself to them. They still looked for the man they walked with, and they supposed that he was to take up the throne as their physical king after the manner of this world.

 

[ezrider]

Conclusion? Unbelievers are still blinded to the Old Testament Scriptures but those who have put their trust in the Savior for Salvation, the veil, or vail, has been lifted. The Old Testament writings are now full of the light of understanding that the Holy Spirit places in the path of the eyes of a born again believer in Jesus as he reads and studies the Law & Prophets.

The why do "believers" spend so much time in the prophets looking for the anti-christ? Why have they taken the scriptures and the prophets that declare unto us the promises of the new covenant and then try and make them about some future covenant with Satan? This is not unbelievers that do this. They are believers in Jesus, but they are no different than the children of Israel before them. They still look to a rebuilt temple and they look for a man to rule over them as King. They have been invited to the wedding feast, BUT THEY WILL NOT COME.

 

[ezrider]

I worship the Image of God the Father as the Man Jesus Christ who is God the Son. I believe Jesus Christ is God. Do you? I ask because it seems from your above posts that you do not. It seems that you equate the worship of Jesus Christ with idolatry disguised behind a veil. Perhaps I've misread your message. You could clear up my confusion if you would admit that you believe Jesus is God. When I read the gospels, it is clear to me that Jesus does accept worship, that this is not considered idolatry, and can only be righteous if Jesus Christ is God.

Matt 2:11
Matt 14:33
Matt 28:9-10
Matt 28:16-17
Luke 24:51-52
John 9:37-38
Hebrews 1:6

Colossians 2:8-10
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.

 

[Chopper]

Wherein did I say that the vail concealed the fact that Jesus is the Messiah? That is something that you have added onto of which I did not say.

I said pretty clearly that the vail conceals the Glory of Christ, which was afterwards to be revealed, By the Holy Spirit.


Do you think the Peter and the other disciples did not understand the Jesus was the Messiah? They walked side by side with the man in the flesh for more than three years, and yet when He was risen, they did not know him, until he revealed himself to them. They still looked for the man they walked with, and they supposed that he was to take up the throne as their physical king after the manner of this world.

Are you saying that the vail was still effecting Peter in this statement of yours? "They walked side by side with the man in the flesh for more than three years, and yet when He was risen, they did not know him, until he revealed himself to them."

 

[ezrider]

Are you saying that the vail was still effecting Peter in this statement of yours? "They walked side by side with the man in the flesh for more than three years, and yet when He was risen, they did not know him, until he revealed himself to them."

Luke 24:13-21
And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. And they talked together of all these things which had happened. And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad? And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.


If there eyes were holden that they should not see, then yes, that is the vail of which I speak.


Luke 24:25-27
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


In this that he expounded unto them of all the scriptures concerning himself, but to them he was still but a stranger passing along the way.

 

[Chopper]

The why do "believers" spend so much time in the prophets looking for the anti-christ? Why have they taken the scriptures and the prophets that declare unto us the promises of the new covenant and then try and make them about some future covenant with Satan? This is not unbelievers that do this. They are believers in Jesus, but they are no different than the children of Israel before them. They still look to a rebuilt temple and they look for a man to rule over them as King. They have been invited to the wedding feast, BUT THEY WILL NOT COME.

Wow! Who said anything about anti-christ? I look to and study the Law & Prophets to rejoice in the many times that I see my Savior, the Jewish Messiah, being the fulfillment of those Laws and Who the Prophets were speaking about. I grieve as well over the Jewish Nation who refused the Messiah, and died outside of the New Covenant.

I like what the Apostle Paul had to say about his kinsmen who died outside of the New Covenant.
Romans 9:2 "that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. 9:4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen."

 

[Chopper]

Luke 24:13-21
And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. And they talked together of all these things which had happened. And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad? And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.


If there eyes were holden that they should not see, then yes, that is the vail of which I speak.


Luke 24:25-27
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


In this that he expounded unto them of all the scriptures concerning himself, but to them he was still but a stranger passing along the way.

I don't see the vail here. I see the glorified Body of Jesus Christ. The only way that they could have recognized Jesus would have been in His pre-resurrected body. For a short period of time, Jesus appeared in His glorified body which was different that His old one. Even Mary didn't recognize Him. John 20:14 "Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus."

Personally, I don't believe that the OT vail is the same as Peter & Mary not recognizing Jesus in His new glorified body.

 

[ezrider]

I don't see the vail here. I see the glorified Body of Jesus Christ. The only way that they could have recognized Jesus would have been in His pre-resurrected body. For a short period of time, Jesus appeared in His glorified body which was different that His old one. Even Mary didn't recognize Him. John 20:14 "Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus."

Personally, I don't believe that the OT vail is the same as Peter & Mary not recognizing Jesus in His new glorified body.

Before I continue down this line, perhaps you might care to comment on the scriptures I have posted as part of my "5" post OP.


Hebrews 10:20
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh.


How was his flesh considered the veil?

 

[reba]

ezrider
Members are allowed to post their views but only while staying with in the confines of Christianity ... The postings i am reading are stepping out side those boundaries ... What i read you saying is a real Christian will have the DNA of Christ AS in we should all have the same DNA.
This site is not obligated to allow members postings to stand . I do not find your thoughts to be supported of Scripture. Admin Reba

 

[ezrider]

ezrider
Members are allowed to post their views but only while staying with in the confines of Christianity ... The postings i am reading are stepping out side those boundaries ... What i read you saying is a real Christian will have the DNA of Christ AS in we should all have the same DNA.
This site is not obligated to allow members postings to stand . I do not find your thoughts to be supported of Scripture. Admin Reba

Exactly where have I said anything about DNA, or having the same DNA. I'm confused as to where you are drawing this conclusion.

 

[reba]

Exactly where have I said anything about DNA, or having the same DNA. I'm confused as to where you are drawing this conclusion.

I do not now see what i thought i saw.... i do apologize 2

 

[ezrider]

I do not now see what i thought i saw.... i do apologize 2

No problem reba, apology accepted. We all get caught up in our own thoughts from time to time and apply them to what we read.

 

[ezrider]

I worship the Image of God the Father as the Man Jesus Christ who is God the Son. I believe Jesus Christ is God. Do you? I ask because it seems from your above posts that you do not. It seems that you equate the worship of Jesus Christ with idolatry disguised behind a veil.

Maybe you would be so kind as to explain who Paul is referring to when He says because of their vain imaginations their foolish heart was darkened. Who are these that profess themselves to be wise, but became fools, changing the Glory of G-d into the image of a man?


Romans 1:21-23
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.