Bible Study The Vail of Christ

[ezrider]

I will remain His bond servant until He calls me home. At some later date, there will be a marriage ceremony which will unite the Bride of which I am a part by the Grace of God, and I no longer will be a Bride and He the Groom, He then will be my husband for all eternity....Are you saying that I should cease being His servant? And He my Master in this time frame? Some call it a dispensation....What happened that you think that Jesus is my Husband?

Isaiah 45:3-4
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness,
and hidden riches of secret places,
that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect,
I have even called thee by thy name:
I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

How is one given a surname, is it not through marriage.

Isaiah 54:3
For thy Maker is thine husband;
the Lord of hosts is his name;
and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called

Matthew 22:2-6
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them

The answer to your question is in the words of the Prophet. "a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely." I know no other time that this prophesy will be fulfilled except in the 1,000 year reign of King Jesus which is a prelude to the promised New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:2-3
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Revelation 21:9-10
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

 

[ezrider]

He has been calling you home. He is calling you home. He continues to call you home.

The question is, when do you answer that call?

He has called you into His Rest. He has asked you to cease from your own labors so that you might then be able to WATCH HIS WORK IN YOU.

What I answered was a prophesy about a future time. In order for that to have happened, Jesus would have had to come, be murdered and to rise again. Hmmm, I detect a problem here.

I'm sorry old friend, I don't get it.

Not sure which part that you don't get. ?


Isaiah 30:15
For thus saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel;
In returning and rest shall ye be saved;
in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength:
and ye would not.


Returning from where? From the lands of the north and wheresoever he had driven them.

Jeremiah 23:5-8
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the Lord our Righteousness. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.


Hebrews 4:1-3
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest:although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[ezrider]

You ask "Did Jesus EVER really leave?" Yes Smaller, Jesus did leave but sent His Spirit Who is "Christ in you".

John 14:15-21
If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me:and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

The promise has always been about His Spirit.

 

[ezrider]

This might be a good place for me to post my thinking on the OP Mr. EZ. In your OP, I liked your use of 2 Cor. 3. I believe the answer to your thread can be found in the entire chapter as it has to do with the Glory of God.

The 10 Commandments that God gave to Moses was glorious in the fact that God has always wanted a holy people to be holy like Hi is. The Commandments would aid Israel in becoming that holy Nation if only they would follow those Commandments.

I am an avid student of the Old Testament Scriptures, perhaps because of this verse in Romans that I read many years ago.
Romans 15:4 "For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope." That sure struck a note with me that to understand what God was after in separating a nation of people, different from any other, and to discover how that Nation of people would respond to their God, I would gain a lot of wisdom and knowledge on how to order my life and instruct others as the Lord would lead.

GLORY. Just what is Glory.
δόξα
doxa
dox'-ah
From the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literally or figuratively, objectively or subjectively): - dignity, glory (-ious), honour, praise, worship.
Total KJV occurrences: 168

A long time ago I decided to identify the Glory of God as honor, dignity, and reputation....When Moses came down from that mountain with the two stone tablets that had the Commandments that God wanted His special people to follow housed in those letters written by the finger of God, there was GLORY! There was honor, dignity, and reputation in those words and the experience for the mortal man Moses to have been in the presence of Almighty God, and to have in his hands the written honor, dignity, and reputation of God, a powerful radiance came out from the face of Moses so that the people could not look at his face. Therefore the Glory (honor, dignity, reputation) of God had to be hidden from the peoples minds by a veil over Moses face.

Jesus Christ, God's only Son is the Glory of the Father. Obedience to God's Commands shows love toward the Author of the Commands. Obedience reveals Glory. Because the Israelites were disobedient to the Commands, Statues, and Rules of God, His Glory was hidden from them. The Law and the Prophets words all pointed to a completion in the Messiah to Israel. That Messiah was, and is, Jesus, God's only Son Who is the manifest Glory of the Father.

The only way that a Jewish person can understand what the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) were saying is to have the veil removed by receiving Jesus as their Messiah thru repentance. Once the veil is removed, the Glory of God enters their heart/mind for the first time and they now can move about in the power of the Holy Spirit and the Glory of Jesus the Son of the Father.

It would appear to me Chopper, that the Glory that you describe in this post is the Glory for which Moses wore the vail, though initially his face has shown a glorified countenance, but that glory was already set to fade away. Then once the glory had faded away, Moses continued to wear the vail so the children of Israel could not see that his glory had indeed faded away, but that vail was a reminder of the fear they had when they did witness the glory of G-d that has shown on his face.

Now think of the Glory of G-d in the face of the consuming fire. The Glory of the Lord that consumed the burnt offerings at the dedication of Solomon Temple. This Glory I do not suppose we can understand with our carnal minds. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal unto us His True Glory.

 

[Edward]

Amen Brother, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand!

 

[smaller]

You ask "Did Jesus EVER really leave?" Yes Smaller, Jesus did leave but sent His Spirit Who is "Christ in you".

I lean not to divide God in Christ in any way. Jesus never left us. He IS in His temples.

 

[Chopper]

I lean not to divide God in Christ in any way. Jesus never left us. He IS in His temples.

Jesus is seated at the right hand of God according to Colossians 3:1. "If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God." You say that you don't like to divide God. Unfortunately there are times when the doctrine of the Trinity is clearly depicted in certain Scriptures like Col. 3:1 and others.

Our body's are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, so we say that Christ is in us because an equal part of the Godhead is in us, as well as seating at the right Hand of the Father....Since I'm speaking about the Temple, Jesus, after He was crucified, had to depart from our world because He needed to enter the Holy Temple that is in Heaven (Revelation 11:19 "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple") and deposit His shed Blood on the Mercy Seat for the final remission for our sins.

Jesus, as far as I know will not return to earth until He comes for His Church at the end of this age.

 

[smaller]

Jesus is seated at the right hand of God according to Colossians 3:1. "If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God." You say that you don't like to divide God. Unfortunately there are times when the doctrine of the Trinity is clearly depicted in certain Scriptures like Col. 3:1 and others.

I have no issues with the Trinity. If the Spirit of Christ is within us, there is not some other Christ, divided and set apart somewhere else.

Our body's are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, so we say that Christ is in us because an equal part of the Godhead is in us, as well as seating at the right Hand of the Father....Since I'm speaking about the Temple, Jesus, after He was crucified, had to depart from our world because He needed to enter the Holy Temple that is in Heaven (Revelation 11:19 "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple") and deposit His shed Blood on the Mercy Seat for the final remission for our sins.

Jesus, as far as I know will not return to earth until He comes for His Church at the end of this age.

And I would consider that a dividing of Christ, from His Own Spirit and church body. A basic gaffe of what Trinity conveys.

Here we can see, God in Christ, in us:

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

And here as well, we are shown, identically:

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

And again, here:

Rev. 3:
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

There are many more, like this:

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

[Chopper]

EZRIDER, As I was meditating and listening for anything that the Holy Spirit might want to make me aware of, the thought came to me, "Suppose the marriage ceremony that I'm looking for, happened at Pentecost." The true Church of Jesus Christ is referred to as His Bride because it's made up of Jesus' true believers, hence, the Bride. Now, the thought also came to be that I can be considered Christ Jesus' Bride after the ceremony! Before the ceremony, I'm simply His intended or fiance'.

OK, you have my attention! Just what do you want me to understand by considering Jesus my Husband, instead of my Master....I'm listening.

 

[Edward]

(Chopper, that's the coolest avatar I've ever seen! Perfect.)

 

[Chopper]

(Chopper, that's the coolest avatar I've ever seen! Perfect.)

Why thank you Edward. I'm just doing what I love to do....By the way, yours is breathtaking.

 

[Edward]

Thanks. You have just the right expression on your face.

 

[Chopper]

Thanks. You have just the right expression on your face.

So do you, I can see you on the top of that mountain, you look cold.

 

[Edward]

Yep. When you zoom in...there I am

 

[ezrider]

EZRIDER, As I was meditating and listening for anything that the Holy Spirit might want to make me aware of, the thought came to me, "Suppose the marriage ceremony that I'm looking for, happened at Pentecost." The true Church of Jesus Christ is referred to as His Bride because it's made up of Jesus' true believers, hence, the Bride. Now, the thought also came to be that I can be considered Christ Jesus' Bride after the ceremony! Before the ceremony, I'm simply His intended or fiance'.

OK, you have my attention! Just what do you want me to understand by considering Jesus my Husband, instead of my Master....I'm listening.

Greetings Chopper,

You ask what do I want you to understand? I can not really say, except that you may consider for yourself your own relationship with our beloved. But I ask how can we begin to walk in the FAITH that we are indeed the bride, except that we first believe it. Once we have come to accept it as a reality in Faith, then I should expect that the Spirit will begin revealing within our hearts and minds the heavenly City of New Jerusalem, which is the Bride. My only hope is that we will be able to share in the Glory that the Spirit reveals in us as the living stones that are built up into that spiritual house.

While I have been pondering upon this, I thought upon a comment that I posted some time ago in my thread on What Do We Believe about the Resurrection.

Why do you ask me these questions? To what end are they for? Do you wish for me to describe for you the Glory of the Temple when I am only trying to pull away the weeds so we might look upon its foundation. You may read my thoughts plainly as I have written them.

If we have been indeed established upon that sure foundation, then may the Spirit of the Lord continue to bless us with the revelation and knowledge of the Glory of the Lord in His Temple.

 

[Chopper]

Back to the vail, or veil which ever you want to refer to it. My studies in the history of the early church of Jesus Christ brought me to Saul's conversion in Acts 9:18. "And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." Personally, I believe that this incident with Saul receiving his sight back is a direct explanation as to the spiritual blindness of the Israelites which started with Moses placing a vail over his face.

It seems to me that the "glory" (doxa, what God is and does). The glory of God can be seen in His only Son. It's as if, when Jesus did something good, the Father would say, "yes, that's Who I am." God says I AM that I am" the second I am is His glory made manifest to man.

Now, back to Sinai. The Law that God gave to Moses was a written code that if followed would lead the follower into what God is and does. The blessings of God are bits and pieces of the glory of God in which He is delighted to give to all who will live according to Law & Prophets which eventually lead to belief in Jesus Christ.

The intent of every command of God is focused on the need of humans to have a part of God in themselves, the Holy Spirit, Who can satisfy that intent. The only way that a Jew can enter the glory of God is to repent of their refusal of Jesus as their Messiah and be baptized. At that point, just like Saul, the spiritual blindness, which is the Vail, is lifted, or falls off like scales, and for the first time in his/her life, understands and enters the fulfillment of what the Law & Prophets were pointing to, true life, being led by their Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus the Christ of God is the sum total of the glory of the Father and the focus of all that the Holy Spirit does in us by His presence in us, and thru us in the activation of the spiritual gifts that He superintends.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OK, you have my attention! Just what do you want me to understand by considering Jesus my Husband, instead of my Master....I'm listening.

While I think ezrider has the veil of the Temple that is Christ, and the veil that covers the eyes of the Isrealites confused with each other, I think the intent is to understand that Christ as a husband suggests a more intimate relationship with us as his bride than he does with us as his servant. I think it entirely possible to be living a married kind of relationship with Christ without having to purposely and consciously consider it as such as ezrider seems to be suggesting we have to do.

If a person has an intimate 'knowing' relationship with Christ, his seed being planted in us, and us bearing the 'children'--the fruit--of that intimacy, we are indeed faithfully walking in a marital kind of relationship with Christ whether we view it as such or not. The fruit bearing is what counts, not the insistence that we have to purposely maintain a kind of spiritual vision of us and Christ as man and wife. The fruit itself shows that we have that kind of a relationship--even if we never heard or understood the analogy of Christ being the husband, and we the bride.

 

[Chopper]

While I think ezrider has the veil of the Temple that is Christ, and the veil that covers the eyes of the Isrealites confused with each other, I think the intent is to understand that Christ as a husband suggests a more intimate relationship with us as his bride than he does with us as his servant. I think it entirely possible to be living a married kind of relationship with Christ without having to purposely and consciously consider it as such as ezrider seems to be suggesting we have to do.

If a person has an intimate 'knowing' relationship with Christ, his seed being planted in us, and us bearing the 'children'--the fruit--of that intimacy, we are indeed faithfully walking in a marital kind of relationship with Christ whether we view it as such or not. The fruit bearing is what counts, not the insistence that we have to purposely maintain a kind of spiritual vision of us and Christ as man and wife. The fruit itself shows that we have that kind of a relationship--even if we never heard or understood the analogy of Christ being the husband, and we the bride.

I like that explanation Jethro. It'll be interesting if ezrider agrees. My problem with what he has presented, either as prophetic in the OT or in the NT, they all point to a later date than this time frame.

I can certainly agree to your explanation, in fact, I see what you said as "revelation". Hey Buddy, that'll preach!!

 

[ezrider]

I like that explanation Jethro. It'll be interesting if ezrider agrees. My problem with what he has presented, either as prophetic in the OT or in the NT, they all point to a later date than this time frame.

I can certainly agree to your explanation, in fact, I see what you said as "revelation". Hey Buddy, that'll preach!!

I must apologies to you Chopper, but for reasons that I will not say in this thread, I will not answer in agreement nor disagreement. Perhaps if you might rephrase the question in a different manner, I might answer.

But now I will ask something rather pointed, and I have brought in a quote of yours from a different thread.

Now to your second question about being one with the Father....Yes, I am one with the Godhead, let me explain. Lets look at Galatians 2:20. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

So, John 14:23 is a reality in my life because of Galatians 2:20.

If you are one with the Godhead. If Christ be in you, and if the Father be in you, and if the Holy Spirit be in you: Why do you look for another to come? If it all points to a later date than this time frame, then How can you be one with the Godhead if it is yet for a future time?

 

[Chopper]

I must apologies to you Chopper, but for reasons that I will not say in this thread, I will not answer in agreement nor disagreement. Perhaps if you might rephrase the question in a different manner, I might answer.

But now I will ask something rather pointed, and I have brought in a quote of yours from a different thread.




If you are one with the Godhead. If Christ be in you, and if the Father be in you, and if the Holy Spirit be in you: Why do you look for another to come? If it all points to a later date than this time frame, then How can you be one with the Godhead if it is yet for a future time?

I must apologize as well because for some reason I'm not getting position clear. I can visualize my position but can't explain it....What I see as future is the ceremony.