The Victorious Christ

[donadams]

Salvation is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. If you believe that it is by faith plus your works or your piety, then you have a perverted faith.

How do you explain those scriptures???
Are we allowed to ignore scripture?

 

[Robert Pate]

How do you explain those scriptures???
Are we allowed to ignore scripture?

Under the Old Covenant God's people lived by laws, rules and religion.

Under the New Covenant God's people live by faith in Christ and his Gospel, Romans 1:17.

Under the New Covenant God's people live by the Holy Spirit and not the law.

 

[donadams]

Under the Old Covenant God's people lived by laws, rules and religion.

Under the New Covenant God's people live by faith in Christ and his Gospel, Romans 1:17.

Under the New Covenant God's people live by the Holy Spirit and not the law.

It’s still a covenant and religion and has requirements
Commandments
No spiritual anarchy
Christians still must be taught or instructed

 

[Robert Pate]

It’s still a covenant and religion and has requirements
Commandments
No spiritual anarchy
Christians still must be taught or instructed

Christians are not led by the law or religion because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. Christians are dead to the law. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, John 16:13.

 

[jaybo]

Christians are not led by the law or religion because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. Christians are dead to the law. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, John 16:13.

Your posts are true, accurate, and are in accord with the Bible. Legalists simply have no understanding of the New Covenant.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your posts are true, accurate, and are in accord with the Bible. Legalists simply have no understanding of the New Covenant.

If one does not understand the difference between the New Covenant and the Old Covenant they are in darkness. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to teach truth, John 16:13. Why is it that they don't have the truth?

 

[jaybo]

If one does not understand the difference between the New Covenant and the Old Covenant they are in darkness. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to teach truth, John 16:13. Why is it that they don't have the truth?

Because they are relying on their own knowledge and "wisdom". The natural mind needs written rules so they believe that the OT law is the only sure guide. Of course, those who have the Holy Spirit know that He guides them.

 

[Robert Pate]

Because they are relying on their own knowledge and "wisdom". The natural mind needs written rules so they believe that the OT law is the only sure guide. Of course, those who have the Holy Spirit know that He guides them.

Are you saying that those that don't have the truth are the natural minds? 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[jaybo]

Are you saying that those that don't have the truth are the natural minds? 1 Corinthians 2:14

Yes. 1 Corinthians 2:14-16, NRSVue, "Those who are unspiritual [or natural] do not receive the gifts of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Those who are spiritual discern all things, and they are themselves subject to no one else’s scrutiny.

“For who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ. "

 

[donadams]

Christians are not led by the law or religion because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. Christians are dead to the law. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, John 16:13.

That refers to the old covenant the mosaic law, now there is the law of christ
Jn 16:13 only applies to the apostles who must teach and sanctify all men Matt 28:19

Hierarchical nature of the new covenant church:

If you agree that Christ is the head of the church then you have consented to the fact there is a hierarchical nature of the new covenant church!

 

[donadams]

There is nothing we can do???


Does the will of God:
Those who hear the Word of God and do it!
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 7:21
Matt 12:50
Mk 3:35
Lk 1:45
Lk 8:21
Lk 11:28
Jn 5:30
Jn7:17
Rom 12:2
Rev 17:7

Doer of the word
James 1:22-23

Keep my commandments:
Matt 28:20
Jn 14:21

Things we must do:

Matt 5:8
Matt 7:14 narrow road leads to life
Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him
Lk 1:4 be instructed
Acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38 Matt 28:19 Jn 3:5 Jn 3:22 ez 36:25 baptism
2 thes 1:8 obedience


Must repent and do penance
Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Matt 16:24
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19

Must believe and continue in a state of believing:
Jn3:16

Receive Christ: Jn 1:12
Put on Christ: gal 3:27

Endure to the end:
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Romans 11:22
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 12:22-25
Hebrews 6:4
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39
Hebrews 3:4-6
1 John 2:24-25
2 John 8-9
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Timothy 2:11-13

 

[donadams]

God always establishes peace and by obedience to hierarchical authority!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!
The military!

All are ordered with obedience to hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!

Hierarchical nature of the new covenant church:

If you agree that Christ is the head of the church then you have consented to the fact there is a hierarchical nature of the new covenant church!

God is the head of Christ:
Christ is the head of the church:
Peter has the role of representing Christ here in earth, visible head, and the apostles / bishops their successors and those they ordain for ministry in union with Peter administer the kingdom, govern the church, teach and sanctify all men, the lay people or nations!

Spiritual anarchy produces spiritual chaos just look at the 25000 sects all full of errors and contradictions that came out of Luther’s little experiment!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

 

[Robert Pate]

That refers to the old covenant the mosaic law, now there is the law of christ
Jn 16:13 only applies to the apostles who must teach and sanctify all men Matt 28:19

Hierarchical nature of the new covenant church:

If you agree that Christ is the head of the church then you have consented to the fact there is a hierarchical nature of the new covenant church!

Under the New Covenant there are no laws or rules. The law and all of the commandments have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed them to his cross Colossians 2:14. Christians are led by the Holy Spirit. Only Pharisees need laws and rules, not Christians.

 

[Free]

Under the New Covenant there are no laws or rules. The law and all of the commandments have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed them to his cross Colossians 2:14. Christians are led by the Holy Spirit. Only Pharisees need laws and rules, not Christians.

There certainly are rules. I posted a whole bunch of them to you before in another thread and you never responded. Probably every book in the NT has rules that Christians are to follow.

 

[Robert Pate]

There certainly are rules. I posted a whole bunch of them to you before in another thread and you never responded. Probably every book in the NT has rules that Christians are to follow.

Where there are laws and rules there is judgment and condemnation. There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there are no laws, Romans 4:15. They have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed them to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

 

[Free]

Where there are laws and rules there is judgment and condemnation. There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there are no laws, Romans 4:15. They have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed them to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

And, yet, there are still a lot of rules for Christians throughout the NT. Which means there is likely something wrong with your understanding of it all.

 

[Free]

From post #6 in this thread:

Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
...
Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Rom 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
Rom 12:11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
Rom 12:12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
Rom 12:13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
Rom 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
Rom 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.
Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
How many are there, from just one chapter?

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
...
Rom 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
...
Rom 13:12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Rom 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
...
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
...
Rom 14:16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil.
...
Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
Rom 14:20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats.
Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.

Rom 15:1 We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Rom 15:2 Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.
...
Rom 15:7 Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God.

Lest you think these things only appear in Romans:

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
...
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
...
1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
...
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
Note that in 1 Cor 15:13, Paul even quotes this verse from the Mosaic Law as still appropriate for believers.

(All ESV.)

 

[Free]

And from post #7:

Continuing on:

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor.
Gal 6:5 For each will have to bear his own load.
Gal 6:6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Gal 6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Php 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
Php 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
...
Php 2:14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing,

Col 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
...
Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
...
Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
...
Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
...
Col 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.
Col 3:20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.
Col 3:21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.
Col 3:22 Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

1Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
1Ti 3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

1Ti 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
1Ti 5:2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God.
1Ti 5:5 She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,
1Ti 5:6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives.
1Ti 5:7 Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach.

(All ESV.)

I could go on. Nearly every book in the NT has some rules and commands for believers, but I'll finish with this:

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

 

[jaybo]

And, yet, there are still a lot of rules for Christians throughout the NT. Which means there is likely something wrong with your understanding of it all.

You are guided by either of two things. 1) The external written "rules", a.k.a. laws or 2) the internal guidance by the Holy Spirit.

What written Biblical rule applies to using the internet? The telephone? Driving at or below the speed limit? Etc.

 

[Free]

You are guided by either of two things. 1) The external written "rules", a.k.a. laws or 2) the internal guidance by the Holy Spirit.

This is a false dichotomy. I've given many rules for Christian conduct, and those aren't exhaustive. It suggests that your understanding of the matter is likely deficient.