The war of Armageddon - spiritual or physical

[GodspromisesRyes]

Is there proof that they literally come in the flesh to fight? SURELY

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 ¶ And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great. Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[precepts]

I don't think I have to force a horse to drink water, but I know that Christ went to prepare a place for the righteous so that where he is we will be there also. :help

 

[adam332]

precepts, you respond to my questions, with questions.

Then you tell me that you'll answer mine after I answer yours. Why are you responding in the first place when you only want people to answer you. How old are you?

 

[precepts]

adam332's quote
First I would ask;
Was the flood a physical event?
Was Sodom and Gomorrah a physical event?
Was the battle of Gideon a physical event?

With such plain examples I'm surprised that anyone would doubt that Armageddon is physical.

What is there is to answer?

adam332's quote

There is tons of scripture about this but let's just look at Rev. 19 alone.

Christ comes to make war with them(v.11).

His initial attack smites them with His sword, rules them a rod of iron and He treadeth them in His fierce wrath(v.15).

The fowl of the earth are called to feed on their flesh(v.17).

Is this the part where he's followed by the 144,000 virgins in white robes washed in the blood of the lamb? Uses the sword of his mouth definely isn't physical, is it? Question.

adam332's quote
This may sound fundamental, but these folks are obviously the "bad guys". It appears that these are all the wicked that are alive at the time of His advent. They're simply a group of the bad (ethnos/nations) people. Unbelievers, wicked, tares, goats, etc... If they are “slain†at Armageddon and their flesh is vulture food then it's pretty clear this is gonna' be a violent and physical act.

-Carnally it seems. :biglol So what's new pussycat?

 

[adam332]

Precepts,
I've seen many of your postings here. Your hardly ever discuss or try to sharpen your sword with another. You make quick sarcastic comments and at times insults without provocation.

I can be a jerk like anyone else, but I am truly here to discuss as I think many others are to. You appear not to be equally yoked with me in that respect. So I will decline from this little game.

Good luck to you.

 

[precepts]

adam332's quote
Precepts,
I've seen many of your postings here. Your hardly ever discuss or try to sharpen your sword with another. You make quick sarcastic comments and at times insults without provocation.

I can be a jerk like anyone else, but I am truly here to discuss as I think many others are to. You appear not to be equally yoked with me in that respect. So I will decline from this little game.

Good luck to you.

Victory is mine!

 

[jasoncran]

thats not a good way to debate, tear down a brother. :verysad
please refrain from this.

 

[adam332]

thats not a good way to debate, tear down a brother. :verysad
please refrain from this.

I don't know if you are referring to me, but I would like to apologize for any offense just in case.

 

[jasoncran]

precepts mainly is the person i was addressing.

are we here only to 'win" the arguement?

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

The bible tells us what certian terms mean. Does a real sword come out of Jesus' mouth? YES- But just because it is a real sword does not mean it is the kind of sword you mean. It is the WORD OF GOD, the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT.Is that a REAL SWORD? YES. Does something have to be a physical material object to be real? not at all.

However flesh is flesh in the word of God and it is clear that they are gathered to fight the Lord and then they are destroyed and the birds eat their FLESH.


It is currently my opinion- which I believe is backed up by scripture- that at the beginning of Gods wrath- at the 6th seal that the heavens roll up like a scroll. This is at the same time that we are resurrected and our enemies behold us ascending to be with the Lord and that the tribes of the earth mourn because His wrath is come and they hide in mountains etc...-

I believe that this heavens rolling up like a scroll means that the veil will be taken away so that the heavens are SEEN literally with the eyes by the wicked on earth. So they see us go to the Lord- so they see that we are dwelling with him on thrones ruiling and reigning over the nations during the time of wrath.


I believe that this is why the enemy is able to then go out to decieve the nations and get them to gather together in one place to fight against Jesus and us at His coming.- It makes little sence (to me so far) that they are gathering together for something they cannot see because carnal men are carnal and walk by sight.- I believe because the heavena hsve rolled back they will see us and begin to prepare to fight gathered together.- then when this time is almost over satan will go and lead them on the breadth of the earth against the camp of the saints which they see in heaven and fire will come down and destroy them which is Jesus returning with us to earth destroying them by the breath of his mouth the sword of the Spirit.

 

[precepts]

In my defence:

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

DITTO!

 

[precepts]

Food for thought:

Hbr 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Hbr 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which [voice] they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Hbr 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Hbr 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

They rule and reign with Christ for a thousand yrs in the heavenly temple in the heavenly Jerusalem!

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

You have to be spiritually minded to understand, the 2nd heavenly ressurection is the Great White Throne judgement. The good and the bad rise to be judge, and the new heavenly Jerusalem comes down over the old heavenly Jerusalem.





The 3rd resurrection happens on earth, the "wheat and tares" parable:

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

They're caught up to heaven, the good go into the heavenly Jerusalem, the bad into the lake of fire. There's no throne judgement.





Thus the book of Revelation closing with this phrase:

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[veteran]

Forgive me ya'll, but I've got to say it. If you'd study the Old Testament prophets as much as you do the New Testament Books, then you'd know the battle of Armageddon will be a literal battle that Christ and His angels will fight. It's just that Christ won't use a literal sword like men's weapons. One of the tools He will use is great hailstones weighing a talent (per Rev.16).

And here's more of the detail of that event, the fowls being called to the supper of the great God...

Ezek 39:1-22
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So will I make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let them pollute My holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.
17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to My sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of My sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at My table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
21 And I will set My glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see My judgment that I have executed, and My hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
(KJV)


That's the last battle that will end this present world. We're supposed to notice a very important Message our Heavenly Father gives in that. He's going to fight that last battle to defeat His enemies on the last day, and it has a major dual purpose. For one, it will be to show His enemies Who The GOD is. And for those who doubt among the house of Israel, it's to show them especially that He is our GOD and there is none else.

 

[jasoncran]

some here seem to think that the verses on isreal's return mean that god will allow the ot method of sacrifices to be accepted again, and that there will be two gospels or something to the like if you believe that the return of isreal is real.

that isnt the case, God allows the return of the jew to his homeland and uses the gentiles throughout the ages to provoke him to jealously and when the anti-christ comes and sits in the new temple the jew will then have to choose to serve him(anti-christ) or the lord.

they will then see that the christians were right , that the lord did come and die on the cross and will repent.

they will then be attacked by the anti-christ's army for not following him and be saved by the messsiah at har- meggido.

 

[veteran]

It's good that you seem to be aware that God is going to send the "strong delusion" especially upon the Jews who refuse Christ. What's really sad is that many Christians today are being prepared by false prophets to flee to that false one who is to come first prior to Christ's return.

The examples our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave of how that false messiah will do great signs and wonders so powerful in deception that it would almost deceive His elect is a major pointer of the level of the coming "strong delusion". The Scripture examples are pointing to a supernatural working by the false messiah. How many believers on Christ do you think will trust in that show of miracles? In a time of economic depression when people look to simple things to put their hope in, how would that miracle working prey upon them?

For those who know God, the temptation still will be comparable to one who is starving that is offered food delicasies on the condition that they bow in false worship to an idol. In that sense, one's Faith in The LORD will have to be the greater food. How many Christian brethren would be prepared in that? So not just many of the orthodox Jews will be deceived, but many Christian brethren weak in the Faith will be deceived too. Five foolish virgins out of ten means half.

 

[jasoncran]

i am aware that you disagree witht the pre-trib doctrine. to which i describe. i wish to learn why?

i know of the schoofield bible and that person.

but not in this thread.

 

[archangel_300]

Forgive me ya'll, but I've got to say it. If you'd study the Old Testament prophets as much as you do the New Testament Books, then you'd know the battle of Armageddon will be a literal battle that Christ and His angels will fight. It's just that Christ won't use a literal sword like men's weapons. One of the tools He will use is great hailstones weighing a talent (per Rev.16).

That's the last battle that will end this present world. We're supposed to notice a very important Message our Heavenly Father gives in that. He's going to fight that last battle to defeat His enemies on the last day, and it has a major dual purpose. For one, it will be to show His enemies Who The GOD is. And for those who doubt among the house of Israel, it's to show them especially that He is our GOD and there is none else.

Why is there need for a physical battle when this verse below shows the most effective means?

2 Peter 3:10-12 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[a] 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?


Does God wage physical battle on his enemies only to then resurrect them for judgment?

 

[jasoncran]

archangle is our ressurection only "spiritual" , and we dont return to the earth?

 

[veteran]

Forgive me ya'll, but I've got to say it. If you'd study the Old Testament prophets as much as you do the New Testament Books, then you'd know the battle of Armageddon will be a literal battle that Christ and His angels will fight. It's just that Christ won't use a literal sword like men's weapons. One of the tools He will use is great hailstones weighing a talent (per Rev.16).

That's the last battle that will end this present world. We're supposed to notice a very important Message our Heavenly Father gives in that. He's going to fight that last battle to defeat His enemies on the last day, and it has a major dual purpose. For one, it will be to show His enemies Who The GOD is. And for those who doubt among the house of Israel, it's to show them especially that He is our GOD and there is none else.

Why is there need for a physical battle when this verse below shows the most effective means?

2 Peter 3:10-12 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[a] 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?


Does God wage physical battle on his enemies only to then resurrect them for judgment?

Some of them, yes.

Isa 24:20-22
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
(KJV)

There's going to be another attempt by Satan to destroy the holy city after the thousand years of Christ's reign.

 

[jasoncran]

yes indeed their will be.and that will be his last