The week of the Passion

[Sparkey]

Keep in mind nobody knows when thus and such a date in 30AD or whatever AD was because back then they went by eyesight.

Understood. I've undertaken a Berean journey to prove all that is being taught here. No, that's not really the case. It's more like fun to me. I don't mind doing the work, but what I don't like is not eating the fruit. I've been on 10 year journeys before with out much fruit, but what I got, I cherished and have shared with others even while making fun of me. That's okay too.

Thanks for bringing it to my memory that it was observational and not dictated by paper counting. I will trust what you say as I know you as a friend. I will also like to be able to replicate the work so that I may present it to others at some future point, if that is possible.

But thank you kindly for the respite the comes with another hand placed on the plow.

Cordially,
Sparrow

 

[Sparkey]

If we do that, then we found that Nisan 14th was thursday.

I'll need more than your word because why do I take your word and not believe what others say? Pardon if that sounds hard, but that's the case. Take me through it slowly. Tell me again the Scripture that this thought hangs on. Matthew won't work. Been there, done that. There isn't sufficient "proof" to be able to force what you are saying when others disagree. Best I can say so far, you could be right? Maybe? I could say the same thing for others here. They could be right? Maybe?

We need better than that. Pretty sure this is possible from looking at the Word. By the way, I have done this before and have my notes, well, that's not true exactly. I've contributed to a similar study many years ago and have emailed my friend whom I think of as a "big brother" in exegesis for his notes on our study. He's older than I am and sometimes slow but I'm fairly certain that he will respond and I've asked permission to publish what I found to be a very convincing study.

His method was to look at the clues in Scripture while thinking about the women. It was eye opening and there was no room for debate, which is why I loved it. Oh, and it passed the "Test of Noah," confirming the words that Jesus spoke about it too.

 

[Slider]

I can sense your frustration, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it was some other event, they would know how to count to 3 correctly, including that of Jonah, but when it involved Christ, 3 days and 3 nights magically means something else. I hear ya. Again, back to post 101 the model I presented is probably yours as well, and is the only one that prophectically fits the timing and the feasts. In short, the model was derived from the facts, not some per-conceived idea where the bible is twisted and re-interpreted to fit the model.

And yes, as I stated earlier, the 12 hours in a day Christ mentioned was an allusion to the way they kept time back then, the hemispherium sundial, but I get a feeling that there's those who don't know Jack-splat about sundials or calendars, or the first thing about them when mentioning them, but are then going to turn around and tell you how to keep a calendar of events. The calendars and sundials had everything to do with time-keeping but they are left out like they are not important. That's like trying to tell someone how to fix a car without using tools. :halo

I don't know that I would call it frustration. Perhaps a little bit in the sense that all the evidence isn't being considered. Trust me though, I am not as frustrated as others! I'm not cocky either, just confident in my research.

Like I said, I wish to be done with this... But there is one thing that still should be addressed. I'll leave it to everyone to hash out.... There has been a lot of talk about "30 AD". It has got to be tough to pinpoint a single day that happened almost 2000 years ago, especially with the knowledge that the "calandar" has been adjusted so many times. I have my research on this too. I don't put much stock in it, because we are talking about pinpointing one day and even hours of that day when it is known that adjustments have been made to the calandar in the last 2000 years. Being a hair off changes things dramatically. I don't base my beliefs on any research on the history of the calandar, but on what the Bible itself says. However, about that "30 AD".

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/Passover_dates.htm

Please have a look at this link. According to it Passover did occur on Friday in 30 AD. However, consider rival years. Those that want to say Jesus died on Friday also have support, because in 33 AD the passover occured on Saturday. I, believing that Christ was crucified on Wednesday, also have support in that the passover was on Thursday in the year 34 AD. So while there is a lot of focus on "30 AD", I don't see anyone questioning if that was the actual year. Personally I believe that 33 or 34 AD are just as plausible (If not more so) than 30 AD.

So this was done by the U.S. Navy, and those folks are pretty particular in getting things right. It's not like we have a fella living in his mother's basement sucking down Mountain Dews and smoking cigarettes doing the research. Yet, I can't help to think that a small error throws this conversation off in that we are talking about pinpointing a single day in a history that dates back 2000 years. As thorough as the Navy may be, perhaps they missed something!

My point is that if you look at 30 AD, why isn't anyone looking at 33 or 34 AD? Yet, in the end I'm not relying on Man's research even if it is the U.S. Navy or anyone else. I'm relying on what the Bible says. It just so happens that 34 AD lines up with it according to the research.

I'll let you folks hash that out.

 

[Goinheix]

Today is Thursday the first day of the Passover Fest, also named Unleavened Bread. For christians it is almost the end of the Holy Week, but for the Bible it is the first day of a 8 days Fest.
Today Thursday but in the year 30 AD it is 14th Nisan, the day the passover lamb is slain.
Today 14th Nisan in the Gospels, the disciples aproached Jesus asking him about the preparation for the passover. Jesus sent Peter and John to do the prepare, and when every thing was ready, Jesus entered the romm.
After dark - for the Jew being Friday 15th - Jesus sat at the table with the disciples and celebrates the passover diner.
Sometime around midnight they will walk out, going to Getsemani.

This is what the Gospels says about this "our" today.

Today is Friday the first day of the Passover Fest, also named Unleavened Bread. For christians it is almost the end of the Holy Week, but for the Bible it is the first day of a 8 days Fest.
Today Friday but in the year 30 AD it is 14th Nisan, the day the passover lamb is slain.
Today 14th Nisan in the Gospels, the disciples aproached Jesus asking him about the preparation for the passover. Jesus sent Peter and John to do the prepare, and when every thing was ready, Jesus entered the romm.
After dark - for the Jew being Saturday 15th - Jesus sat at the table with the disciples and celebrates the passover diner.
Sometime around midnight they will walk out, going to Getsemani.

This is what the Gospels says about this "our" today.

 

[Sparkey]

Before 70AD

The calendar system they used was based on solar and lunar observation. I remember reading about it. I also remember that the leaders would announce the day so that others would know the start of the Passover week.

Let's get one thing fixed here. Some may have come to this thread without the understanding that there were two festivals that are celebrated. The festival of the paschal lamb --the sacrifice and rite of the paschal lamb and its consumption is celebrated. This is the one that Gentiles call "Easter". This unique ritual included the slaughtering of the lamb on the afternoon of the 14th of Nisan (Leviticus 23:5). There is another remembering. That is the purpose behind what God commanded. So that none would forget.

To this day, they slaughter a lamb at sunset, read Exodus chapter 12; we see they ate the Passover meal after midnight together with unleavened bread (matzah) and bitter herbs.

The Passover Lamb
1 Now the Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt , 2 "This month shall be the beginning of months for you; it is to be the first month of the year to you. 3 "Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, 'On the tenth of this month they are each one to take a lamb for themselves, according to their fathers' households, a lamb for each household.
...
6 'You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight.
...
8 'They shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

So, now we have Biblical authority about the time of the sacrifice. Others have mentioned this before. Here we have God's command. The Bible repeatedly emphasized one facet of Passover, "And this day shall be for you a memorial…" (Exodus 12:14); "And Moses said to the people: remember this day in which you come out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage…" (Exodus 13:3); "You shall remember what Adonai your God did to Pharaoh…" (Deuteronomy 7:18); "that you may remember the day when you come out of the land of Egypt all the days of your life" (Deuteronomy 16:3).

Furthermore, the lambs were slaughtered by the Israelites themselves privately by each family, and the priests poured the blood on the base of the altar. This was a very personal act. All other offerings were generally slaughtered by the priests. This sacrifice speaks so much to the Christian and it too may not be forgotten. Yes, Jesus is our High Priest. Yes, there is one sacrifice for all in this day, yet each of us know in our heart, "He died for me (and me personally)". What you, Zeleste have said about 70 AD isn't a mysterious destruction of their ability to track dates. It was the destruction of the Temple where the sacrificial offerings were offered. That was what was destroyed, not the heart of the command that the Jews were to remember the day. They have not forgotten. I've demonstrated that there is some difficulty for the Gentile to convert the calendars mathematically, but that wasn't the case in 71 AD or in 80 AD either. They knew. They know, as do we. I have great hope for tim-from-pa and his promise to bring his result. It will use the exact method that the Jews used, observation of the "signs in the heavens".

Nevertheless, we continue our journey and remembrance. It is no longer part of the law that is written outside of us, but it is written within our hearts. In this heart, there is also a caution. This is NOT the place for brothers to be scuffling around and fighting. Can you remember when your father and mother too you to church? It's like that. No slingshots are allowed. But I digress. I know it "takes two to tango," meaning that there is more than one person involved in ever fight, but also know that every person is told to leave their slingshots at home else witness the rapid destructions of the "sticks and stones" that can "break bones" (and words can never hurt me?) <-- that is folly. If the Lord is zealous for the House of God and forbade profiteering in that Holy Place, who is our Jealous God today? Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, but there is a line that shall not be crossed.... This far and no further. Not here. Not on our (your) forum. Okay, done with that (for now).

Back to the remembrance. The verses that I quoted a moment ago are a clear indication that the general function of the Passover pageantry was to serve as a constant reminder to the Israelite that the struggle was against slavery and to cause them (us) to recall the wondrous deliverance from Egyptian bondage. This is the same bondage that we as Christians sadly still struggle with in all too many cases. It is a reminder of our humble beginnings. A case against thinking too highly of oneself. Non-Israelites and uncircumcised ones were not allowed to participate in the feast of the paschal lamb because the occasion was one of reaffirming God's covenant with the Children of God, who came through Jacob whose name became Israel.

Now, this brings us to another feast. The feast of unleavened bread. Those who ate of the paschal lamb (after nightfall at the start of the next day - in the evening) were told to eat in a hurry. They ate in haste, with bitter herbs and unleavened bread. I've seen videos of Jews who shake out every trace of leaven in their homes. Have seen the linens being shaken from their windows, perhaps you've seen this too.

10 'And you shall not leave any of it over until morning, but whatever is left of it until morning, you shall burn with fire. 11 'Now you shall eat it in this manner: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste—it is the LORD's Passover.

 

[Sparkey]

My last post discussed the Passover. We clearly saw that the lamb was to be taken on the 10th and sacrificed on the 14th, in Nissan, the first month of the year. Here's the proofs for this, from the Exodus. Ex 12:3,6,8

Now we turn to look at another feast that is celebrated during that same general period of time. This is called "The Feast of Unleavened Bread". Here's the Scripture from Exodus. It follows immediately after the Feast of the Paschal Lamb.

Feast of Unleavened Bread
14 'Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance. 15 'Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses; for whoever eats anything leavened from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel.

16 'On the first day you shall have a holy assembly, and another holy assembly on the seventh day; no work at all shall be done on them, except what must be eaten by every person, that alone may be prepared by you. 17 'You shall also observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent ordinance.

18 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 19 'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land. 20 'You shall not eat anything leavened; in all your dwellings you shall eat unleavened bread.' "

21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel and said to them, "Go and take for yourselves lambs according to your families, and slay the Passover lamb.

This feast also starts on the 14th of Nissan. See Ex 12:18. It lasts for a full week. It starts at evening. There is a difference though that we are to remember. The feast of the Passover brings back the time when the Children were in Egypt and under the bondage when the Angel of the Lord passed over the houses that were marked with the blood. They are told to eat in haste. The time of unleavened bread also recalls their experience but this time, it's the experience of departing, the experience of deliverance. Both feasts are tied together and their start is on 14 Nissan. The feast of unleavened bread is also conjoined to an agricultural festival that celebrated the beginning of the grain harvest when an offering of the first fruits was made and unleavened bread eaten. These feasts coincided with the feast of the paschal lamb. The principal feature of the feast of unleavened bread is stated in the Bible: "Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread." The unleavened bread commemorated the speed with which the Jews had to leave Egypt and thus became symbolic of Israelite redemption.

The main distinction between the Hag HaPesach [Passover] and Hag HaMatzot [Unleavened Bread] lies in the historical area that each seeks to reflect. The Hag HaPesach reenacts the events of the 14th of Nisan (the pre-exodus period), and the Hag HaMatzot marks the actual departure from Egypt of the Israelites, which was concluded with the crossing of the Red Sea (exodus period). Both are component parts of the same festival, the festival of Passover.

We can look to Book of Joshua 5:10-11 to see these feasts kept in Gilgal. These passages stress the humble origin of the Jewish people, the covenant with Abraham, God's intervention in Egypt, the fulfillment of God's promises, and their reaffirmation of faith as well as the Trust that was the chief concern of our Lord as he brought and taught His Children into "the promise". We are to depart from Egypt? Why? So that we may worship HIM, who is Risen!

After the Children of Israel crossed the Jordan they were occupied with the wars with their displaced neighbors as even the lands were polluted with their behaviors. During this time, Passover played little or no role in the national life of the people. It wasn't until the time of Samuel and afterward that there was a "revival" and Passover was kept. When we look at II Kings 23:21-23, we see another reminder. Neither they, nor we are faithful when it comes to our part of the bargain. The simplicity of the command and the reason it was given (remember...) was forgotten for a period of more than 400 years that came after the "revival" of Samuel's time.

The religious revival that began with Samuel continued through the reign of King David and reached its zenith under King Solomon with the construction of the [First] Temple in Jerusalem. The Second Temple [515 BCE - 70 CE] was where the sacrifices were offered when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the donkey. It was that curtain, the one spoken of in the law, that was rent in two. Millions of words have been written on that subject but for now it is good to recall the origins of our celebration when we break that same bread, and recall the breaking of the body of our Lord, when we drink from that same cup, and recall the blood that was spilled for each person here.

 

[Sparkey]

The Feast of Firstfruits

Lev 3:9-14 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, so that you may be accepted.

On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the Lord. And the grain offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, a food offering to the Lord with a pleasing aroma, and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin. And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.


Now pardon me if there seems to be some confusion presented in the next statement. Don't kill the messenger, I am reporting what I've found. We'll look for the answer in a moment. According to the Bible-Truth website, "First Fruits is held on the Sunday following Unleaven Beard. 21st of Nisan. (Lev 23:10-11) Passover begins in 14th, Feast of the Unleaven Bread on 15th, and the Feast of the First Fruits on 21st. They are referred to as one feast. There are remaining the feasts are Pentecost, Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles, Lights and Purim for a total of seven feasts." [sic]

The question becomes, when does the Feast of Unleavened Bread begin? Was it held on 14 Nissan or did it "drift"? But before we consider this, it will serve our clarification purpose to look at the date given in the Bible for the Wave Offering (of the Feast of Firstfruits). In Lev 23:10-11 we see, "And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it.

The "Wave Offering" is on the morrow, after the Sabbath. The "Bible-Truth" website author goes on to cite Scripture. I like that. Here we are then, "The scriptural notices of these rites are to be found in Ex 29:24,28; Le 7:30,34; 8:27; 9:21; 10:14,15; 23:10,15,20; Nu 6:20; 18:11,18,26-29 etc. In conjecturing the meaning of this rite, regard must be had that it was the accompaniment of peace offerings, which were witnesses to a ratified covenant --an established communion between God and man.”

• Since the feast of the Unleaven beard was seven days long, it would have one Sunday and that Sunday would be First Fruits each year. [sic]

The Feast was a thanksgiving offering to God for His goodness in providing food from the land for the Israelites. There was a national offering (Lev. 23:10-17) and individual offerings (Exod. 23:19, Deut. 26:1-11). The First Fruit offerings went to support the priests.

Wave Offering: It was initiated at the consecration of Aaron and the beginning of the Aaronic priesthood (Exod. 29:24-28). It was associated with the peace offering that symbolized a right spiritual relationship with God. In the peace offering a worshiper would bring a bullock, a lamb or a goat, male of female and the this offering followed the Sin Offering.

The wave and heave offering were a part of the peace offering.​

Leviticus 23:14 mentions the start of a seven (7) Sabbath (or 49 day) countdown. This is seen in the New testament when Jesus commanded, "Wait for the Promise of the Father." The disciples waited. They were filled with the Holy Ghost when the time came as they clustered together in that upper room. Notice also the joy (wine) of the Nazarite mentioned in Numbers 6:20. Read more at: BibleTruth.org, a website hosted by a self-described Independent Fundamental Baptist.

Okay, we've gleaned several truths from this. Here we see that another feast is celebrated and that it is directly associated with the First (Spring) Harvest as well as the Priesthood. This is a week long celebration that begins "on the morrow, after the Sabbath". Within the Feast of Firstfruits, we see a wave offering (to be consumed by the people) and a heave offering (to be consumed by the Priests). We also see this as the start of a 49 day countdown to what we know call Pentecost and also called "the fiftieth day" and celebrating the giving of the Law on Sinai when it was written on stone. This feast is still celebrated as Shavuot. This is the day that we know from the Prophecy of Joel, quoted by Peter, that mentions the Promise of the Father that is given to you and to your children and for all who are far off --for all whom the Lord our God will call (see Acts 2:39).

So when does the Feast of Unleavened Bread begin? For this, we turn to the book of Leviticus and chapter 23

The Feasts of the LORD

1 And the LORD [YHVH] spoke to Moses, saying,
2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them:
‘The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations,
these are My feasts.

The Sabbath
3 'Six days shall work be done,
but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation.
You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

The Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread

4 'These are the feasts of the LORD,
holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times.
5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD’s Passover.

6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month
is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD;
seven days you must eat unleavened bread.
7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation;
you shall do no customary work on it.
8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the LORD for seven days.
The seventh day shall be a holy convocation;
you shall do no customary work on it.'"

See also Exodus 12:18-19

[Exodus 12:18-19] “In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses…”

• Does "until" include or exclude the 21st day? Is this a seven or eight day period?

[Leviticus 23:4-6] "These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.”

• Leviticus (Nisan 15) seems to contradict Exodus (Nisan 14). When does The Feast of Unleavened Bread begin?

Answers found presented in next post.

 

[Sparkey]

Answer 1: Translation problem. This reply to the question was found on the Study Bible Q&A forum, given by a member there called "Donald".

The confusion in Exodus/Leviticus is more related to translations than contradiction.

The Jewish community used names for the festival days they observed. This can be seen in the modern observance of this festival: Day one of Passover, Day 2 of Passover and so forth. Translators (before the year 1000 A.D.) errored in believing that the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread were two separate festivals. [sic] They weren't. The Days of Unleavened Bread is a 7-day festival with 2 Holy Days, The first is the 14th of Nisan (which the Passover was on) and the second is on the 20th of Nisan. (see: Deut 16:2-4, Ezekiel 45:21, Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:1 and Luke 22:7) The important references in the N.T. is that the Passover sacrifice (Nisan 14) and Day of Unleavened Bread were the same day. The instructions in Exodus 12:18-19 seems to be correct.

This answer is questioned by a more authoritative sound within the next reply, this by a Member knows only as anonymous. Here we see another battle where some would like to believe that we're talking about a Friday. I'll include "Donald's" reply underneath where he states, "we will have to agree to disagree on this one. This can get to be a hotly debated subject and I'm happy to report that things remained calm for the most part (no name calling, no spamming, no "shouting down" of other Members was seen.

• Anonymous mentions the "Between the Evenings" interpretation.

Indeed there is a translation problem regarding "afternoon" and "evening". From the Torah, Leviticus 23:4-8 <http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9924>
... Lev 23:4-8 has been previously quoted and is omitted here by SparrowHawke. Included here is what "Donald" will call "point 8" which I assume is a quote of Lev 23:8

... [Point] 8: "And you shall bring a fire offering to the Lord for a seven day period. On the seventh day, there shall be a holy occasion; you shall not perform any work of labor."

Nisan 14 is the Day of Preparation for Passover when the Pascal Lambs were sacrificed in the Temple; Day One of Passover itself is Nisan 15.

In Leviticus 23:5, the literal translation of the Hebrew word for the the time of day of the sacrifice is "between the two evenings", which means "afternoon". It does not mean "evening", which is the typical erroneous translation. With Jewish religious dates being demarcated by sunsets, there is a difference of as much as 24 hours between evening beginning Nisan 14 and afternoon ending Nisan 14. See the Darby Version and the Young Version of the Bible for Leviticus 23:5. [SparrowHawke: I've not yet checked the Darby nor the Young versions]

See also:
<http://www.hebrew4christians.net/Holidays/Spring_Holidays/Pesach/Zman_Seder/zman_seder.html>
The Feast of Unleavened Bread is synonymous with Passover, and therefore, Day One of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is Nisan 15, following the Day of Preparation on Nisan 14. On the Day of Preparation for the Feast, all leavening (chametz) is ritually removed from Jewish homes.

The Gospel of John [19:31] explicitly states that Jesus was sacrificed with the Pascal Lambs, which would be on Friday afternoon (between the evenings) of Nisan 14, and He was taken down from the cross before the evening (sunset) when Passover began on Saturday (Sabbath) Nisan 15.

"Donald" who does not adhere to the "Between the Evenings" and does not seem to care if it was a "Friday" replies:

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately we will need to agree to disagree! The instructions in Exodus just don't agree with most of your comments and since Moses is assumed the writer of both Exodus/Lev. something is amiss.

For those who believe in a Friday crucifixion and Sunday morning resurrection John 19:31 is used to support their cause, but you state in point #8 that this "preparation" is when the Passover was sacrificed (not the day before the weekly Sabbath). Three of the four gospels state that the Passover sacrifice and first day of U.B. [Unleavened Bread] are the same day. The importance of the N.T. Passover is not eating the meal, (which Jews do on the 15th) but the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior and our remembrance of that event.

 

[Sparkey]

So then and on the same forum, a "helpful" member tries to assist understanding but makes the same mistake that I am prone to. Her thinking about when a day starts is locked in an Occidental (Western) concept surrounding our concept of Midnight (12:00 p.m.) and the minute after (12:01 a.m.). It's easy now to notice this flaw and perhaps not necessary in this thread but I do like having company.

Here is an analogy from the perspective of our calendar day system. One may say that our chronological day goes from midnight to midnight. We understand that this doesn't mean the day begins at midnight, and that it also ends at midnight. Rather, we know there is only one midnight per calendar day. So in all actuality, we know that the day begins at midnight, and that it ends at 11:59:59 pm., one complete day.


So, if Americans in our calendar day system were instructed to eat unleavened bread for seven days, the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, and the 21st, then one could instruct their family to start eating unleavened bread, no sooner than, on the 14th day at (11:59:59 pm). This principle is somewhat similar, but not exactly, to the lesson learned in (Leviticus 23:32).


The seven days from the perspective of the letter of the law (including the spirit and intent) would start on the 14th day at the end of the day at (11:59:59 pm.), and end on the 21st day at the end of the day at (11:59:59 pm.), resulting in a complete (7 days and 1 sec.) that unleavened bread could have been eaten. In all practicality, this is an equivalent period of time to seven days, however, technically it is one second longer. (Exodus 12:18)


The seven days from the perspective of the letter of the law only, (devoid of the spirit and intent), would start from the beginning of the 15th day at midnight [12:00:00 am.], and end on the 21st day at the end of the day at (11:59:59 pm.), resulting in a complete (7 days) that unleavened bread could have been eaten. (Leviticus 23:6)


Since God's Word is very precise, when the spirit of the law (intent) is included within the perspective, then that one second difference becomes very significant. Technically, this allowed unleavened bread to be eaten starting the evening (dusk) before the appointed time of the paschal sacrifice, albeit, by one second. This was impractical and insignificant in reality whenever the spirit of the law was included with the letter of the law. However, this became very practical and significant when the spirit of the law was separated from the letter of the law. From my understanding, this separation of the spirit from the letter of the law occurred at the beginning of the appointed time of the paschal sacrifice during Holy Week, when Jesus gave up His spirit, shortly after God's Prophetic Word in (Amos 8:7-10) began to be fulfilled at noon on the fourteenth day. (John 19:30) (John 1:14)


In conclusion, from my understanding,


The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread with the spirit (intent) of the law included, always began on the evening (dusk) of the fourteenth day before the appointed time (beyn ha arbayim - God's Perspective).


The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread by the letter of the law (devoid of the spirit and intent) always began on the evening (dusk) of the fifteenth day.



In Christ's Service,
Sola Gloria Dei!

answered Nov 16, 2012 by JesusIsLord (140 points)
edited Nov 17, 2012 by Donald

I've included this comment (edited by Donald, our equivalent of Moderator) because I liked her thought about the Spirit and Letter. Oh, and before somebody comes and asks, "How do you know this Member is female?" Let me answer, I don't. I also notice the care he or she used when delineating the various "American" and "Jewish" thoughts. The error was mine entirely.

 

[Goinheix]

Please, be aware that my reply is not immediately but has to be aproved by a moderator. That takes several hours.

I dont agrre on that the Passover and the Unleavened Bread be two different Fests. The four authors of the Gospel also desagree with you.
Any how, let see what we DO agree:
We agree that the Passover Lamb is slain/sacrificed/kill in the afternoon of the 14th.
Coming the night, already being 15th, that lamb is eaten.
The afternoon of the 14th the disciples came to Jesus asking him for where to prepare the Passover. The 14th afternoon Jesus sent Peter and John to make the preparations for the Passover. Coming the night, already the 15th Jesus and the 12 eaten the Passover.
Do we agree?

 

[Sparkey]

I dont agrre on that the Passover and the Unleavened Bread be two different Fests.

I don't agree that we disagree on that. Perhaps I should have simply said, "They are the same feast." One remembrance points to the time in Egypt when the Lamb was slaughtered and the other points to the same time-frame and the speed in which the Children were delivered from their slavery.

There was another feast though, another Sabbath that was (is) a celebration of the giving of the Law on Mt. Sinai. This is a Harvest festival celebrating the first harvest of the Spring and it is a Peace Offering that is both "Waved" and "Heaved". This also begins the countdown of 49 days before Pentecost (the 50th day).

Let's agree that there is more to this than "simple" shall we?

 

[Goinheix]

I dont agrre on that the Passover and the Unleavened Bread be two different Fests.

I don't agree that we disagree on that. Perhaps I should have simply said, "They are the same feast." One remembrance points to the time in Egypt when the Lamb was slaughtered and the other points to the same time-frame and the speed in which the Children were delivered from their slavery.

Do we agreed on that the 14th of Nisan Jesus ended the day alive and free?

 

[Sparkey]

The afternoon of the 14th the disciples came to Jesus asking him for where to prepare the Passover. The 14th afternoon Jesus sent Peter and John to make the preparations for the Passover. Coming the night, already the 15th Jesus and the 12 eaten the Passover.

 

[Sparkey]

I'll admit that there is some discussion about the meanings of the various words, and that "dawn" may include your thought that it is the dawning of the week, not the time of the morning.

That's what the Exodus account says too. That the Lamb is sacrificed on the 14th of Nissan and eaten in haste.

I am in the process of creating another spreadsheet that expresses this view better. I'm also waiting on my friend to reply and give the data from our discussion from many years ago (when he stated he had been given a revelation about a difficult subject).

This is the same reception that I am extending to you, with the assumption that you too may have been given a revelation by the Lord. It is the same assumption that I give to others who contribute here.

 

[Goinheix]

Do you agree that the 14th of Nisan Jesus ended the day alive and free?

 

[Sparkey]

I dont agrre on that the Passover and the Unleavened Bread be two different Fests.

I don't agree that we disagree on that. Perhaps I should have simply said, "They are the same feast." One remembrance points to the time in Egypt when the Lamb was slaughtered and the other points to the same time-frame and the speed in which the Children were delivered from their slavery.

There was another feast though, another Sabbath that was (is) a celebration of the giving of the Law on Mt. Sinai. This is a Harvest festival celebrating the first harvest of the Spring and it is a Peace Offering that is both "Waved" and "Heaved". This also begins the countdown of 49 days before Pentecost (the 50th day).

Let's agree that there is more to this than "simple" shall we?

Do we agreed on that the 14th of Nisan Jesus ended the day alive and free?

I've quoted this again because I do agree that this is not "simple". If you don't agree and think it is, then I would like you to re-read the entire thread before we continue and pay careful attention to the links that I have given in my first post here, and all the comments that they reference. After you've considered the complex nature of this topic, we may resume our discussion.

 

[Sparkey]

Do you agree that the 14th of Nisan Jesus ended the day alive and free?

Asked and answered. Asked and answered.

 

[Goinheix]

Do you agree that the 14th of Nisan Jesus ended the day alive and free?

Asked and answered. Asked and answered.

Excuse me but my post take a long time to be shown.

You have post long, very long posts stating and repeating that out of any doubt the Passover Lamb is slain on Nisan 14th.
You made it veru clear and was contundent and insistent. The Passover Lamb is salin in Nisan 14th and no other day.
You have that very clear and expected that everyone understand it without room of a tiny doubt.
The Passover Lamb is slain on Nias 14th.

On Nisan 14th Peter and John did prepare the Passover by directions of Jesus.
On Nisan 14th Peter and John slain the Passover Lamb.
Coming the night, being 15th Jesus eat the¨Passover Lamb

Do we agree on that?

 

[Sparkey]

Excuse me but my post take a long time to be shown.

There is no need for you to ask me to excuse, because I have been approving your post as soon as I see them. By the way, I'm about to go out for some shopping (grocery shopping) and won't be around for awhile. You will know when I am online because the little dot next to my name turns green. I'm working on a reply and actually consulting some very exceptional experts who over a period of years have become my favorite translators. Maybe you've heard of Everett Fox and "The Five Books of Moses"? It's also called "The Schocken Bible, Volume 1". In any case, take your time. I'm in no hurry and will probably continue to examine this subject for the remainder of my years here in this lifetime. I will post again the difference that I see between Exodus and Leviticus and will include the expert testimony of Everett Fox before I go shopping for food for the tummy.

In the meantime, consider the meaning behind "hyssop". Ex 12:22 mentions this. The leaves are known for a cooling effect. This was not associated with the blood dipped hyssop but worthy of a word study in itself.

Blessings,
Sparrow

 

[Sparkey]

On Nisan 14th Peter and John did prepare the Passover by directions of Jesus.
On Nisan 14th Peter and John slain the Passover Lamb.
Coming the night, being 15th Jesus eat the¨Passover Lamb

Do we agree on that?

Have you noticed that we have an add-in called a Ref-Tagger (or Reference Tagger) that will allow people to hover their mouse over the quote reference and see the quote? It's very handy and if you want my fast agreement, I would suggest that you learn to use it well. You mentioned John and I assume you are meaning the Gospel of John. I'll go get the reference and quote it here. Notice though that I am withholding my judgment and pronouncements until it is proven beyond doubt by Scripture (our more sure word of Prophecy) itself.

Here's what the Holy Spirit said through the pen of the Apostle known as "the beloved" and also known as John:
[video=youtube;WaY_jsw9wAI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaY_jsw9wAI[/video]

Listen as we both turn our Bibles to the last chapter of John and consider the Truths found there.
Jn 15:26
Jn 16:12,13
Jn 17:20
Jn 18:1 (when He had finished praying)
_________________________________________

Now we may "turn back" to the time when Jesus entered Jerusalem.
Jn 12:12,13,14

In John 12:13 we see the word "Hosanna!" a Hebrew expression meaning “Save!†which became an exclamation of praise.
Jn 12:24 Jesus predicts his death with an allusion to the Harvest Celebration
Jn 12:28 We see that many different people have various understandings and "interpretations" of a single event

Jn 12:32,33 Jesus makes a bold statement of truth
Jn 12:34 The crowd responds

Jn 13:2 Jesus washes the feet of the disciples
Jn 13:1 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father.
Jn 13:14 We are to "wash each other's feet"
Jn 13:38 Jesus speaks intimately with Peter and predicts his denial

Jn 14:15,16,17,18,19,20,21 Jesus promises (again) the Holy Spirit (the gift from the Father). He speaks of "on that day" and again refers not only to the fulfillment of His promise but also the end of the 49 day countdown.

Clearly this was before Passover meal. Would it matter if I disagreed? I can not imagine that it does. There is a more sure word, the Word of Prophecy that is the Bible. What I say is of no consequence. Here's how John closes the Good News of his Gospel: John 21:25 (KJV) Notice that he speaks of the books that should be written but would still not contain all the things that our Lord has done.