jasoncran
Member
They always have counter verses.
oh yes but if thats a godly church, that pastor or man wont come back.
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**The Word of Faith Movement.........Twisted scripture
- Thread starter Danus
- Start date
oh yes but if thats a godly church, that pastor or man wont come back.
smaller
Member
I spent about 20 years of my believing life in the general WOF camps. You name it, I can claim it...
I can't say the time was wasted. At the time I was "born again" I lived in a very small town dominated in the Christian arena by various camps of protestants and the RCC. Every single one of them (I am/was confirmed in both Lutheran and Roman Catholic churches) were to me after my personal experience dead as the proverbial doornails.
Locally we had a consortium of believers who had experienced similar things with God in Christ called the Full Gospel Business Mens Fellowship, meant to be a Gospel spreading group. It was founded by Demos Shakarian who was a dairy farmer, and I was also such at the time of my conversion. It didn't take me long to relate to this group in my little town. All of us had 'like' experiences and were fervent for sharing the Gospel. It was and still is (if it still exists) a 'charismatic' unit, so I was soon imbedded into that whole arena of teachings. Being a newbie of course I ate it all up.
After God blessed me by destroying my dairy biz, I moved to a large city, and maintained my relationship with FGBMFellowship, and hooked up with the WOF movement out of Tulsa Ok. The one with Kenneth Hagin at the helm. This of course led to associations, exposures and teachings from other general WOF movements, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, Marilyn Hickey, the Bakers, anyone from the AOG groups, and the infamous Bob Tilton of course whom my wife and I would see at our local church via broadcast satellite big screen.
Yes, they were very good at getting me to fork over the $. But at the time I was very sincere in my 'tithing' thinking I was doing God service. I just didn't see it, and the worship was for the most part dramatically incredible compared to the old school churches I grew up in. Most of the other believers I met there were fervently so, and I just related to them via mutual experiences. I still maintain my friendships made therein.
My wife and I raised 5 children, so we were active in the childrens sunday school stuff. We often felt a little intimidated by some of the antics we saw in the church, so we kinda liked hanging out with the kids and being simple. We talked about some of the stuff at home like 'how is it all these people are hearing from God' yet we're really not hearing anything? What's up with that? It was a game of spiritual one upmanship and we saw that for what it was. Didn't play.
One day in our local service they called my wife and I out to participate in some laying on of hands ceremony or another, so we sat in the pew prior to the event. As everyone was falling down and doing this or that spiritual thing, dancing around, speaking in tongues, etc etc, I thought it was kind of a sham really, like 'acting.' I had participated as well, but whatever. The moment I had that thought, I heard a voice just as clear a bell in my mind saying "Ichabod has been written over the threshold of this assembly." Didn't really know what to make of that. It was just kind of weird as I am not given to such intrusions of thought, but left the matter til I got home. Having spent a couple decades with my nose being buried in the Bible and my ever present Strongs Concordance (pre computer/internet days) I dug out my Concordance. The only Ichabod I recalled was Ichabod Crane of Headless Horseman fame.
Sure enough there in the Concordance was the name Ichabod, a child of Phineas who was a son of Eli, one of the High Priests of Israel.
The meaning of Icahbod? 'THE SPIRIT HAS DEPARTED.'
My wife and I never returned to that church or any group associated with same. It was a moment. What can I say?
About a year later the pastor of the church was caught in an affair with the secretary, his wife had one with one of the 'elders' and the group disintegrated and scattered.
Having and maintaining a fervent interest in Word I remained in personal studies the entire time, and of course eventually proved to myself that it was all a scriptural scam of gigantic proportions made of course to fleece the sheep of their hard earned $$$$. Needless to say I remain a severe skeptic of anything that ever came out of those groups and for learned reasonings. But it was just something I had to go through.
In a charismatic home church we attended for a few years after that, the pastor, a very sincere man of God prophesied over my wife and I that none of that time or experience would be wasted. He didn't really know anything of what we had went through.
I witnessed that prophecy as a word of truth. Learned a lot
Basic lesson? Well, misplaced trust in religious authorities of any kind can lead you down some real dead end alleys and cost you a LOT of time and money.
enjoy!
smaller
I can't say the time was wasted. At the time I was "born again" I lived in a very small town dominated in the Christian arena by various camps of protestants and the RCC. Every single one of them (I am/was confirmed in both Lutheran and Roman Catholic churches) were to me after my personal experience dead as the proverbial doornails.
Locally we had a consortium of believers who had experienced similar things with God in Christ called the Full Gospel Business Mens Fellowship, meant to be a Gospel spreading group. It was founded by Demos Shakarian who was a dairy farmer, and I was also such at the time of my conversion. It didn't take me long to relate to this group in my little town. All of us had 'like' experiences and were fervent for sharing the Gospel. It was and still is (if it still exists) a 'charismatic' unit, so I was soon imbedded into that whole arena of teachings. Being a newbie of course I ate it all up.
After God blessed me by destroying my dairy biz, I moved to a large city, and maintained my relationship with FGBMFellowship, and hooked up with the WOF movement out of Tulsa Ok. The one with Kenneth Hagin at the helm. This of course led to associations, exposures and teachings from other general WOF movements, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, Marilyn Hickey, the Bakers, anyone from the AOG groups, and the infamous Bob Tilton of course whom my wife and I would see at our local church via broadcast satellite big screen.
Yes, they were very good at getting me to fork over the $. But at the time I was very sincere in my 'tithing' thinking I was doing God service. I just didn't see it, and the worship was for the most part dramatically incredible compared to the old school churches I grew up in. Most of the other believers I met there were fervently so, and I just related to them via mutual experiences. I still maintain my friendships made therein.
My wife and I raised 5 children, so we were active in the childrens sunday school stuff. We often felt a little intimidated by some of the antics we saw in the church, so we kinda liked hanging out with the kids and being simple. We talked about some of the stuff at home like 'how is it all these people are hearing from God' yet we're really not hearing anything? What's up with that? It was a game of spiritual one upmanship and we saw that for what it was. Didn't play.
One day in our local service they called my wife and I out to participate in some laying on of hands ceremony or another, so we sat in the pew prior to the event. As everyone was falling down and doing this or that spiritual thing, dancing around, speaking in tongues, etc etc, I thought it was kind of a sham really, like 'acting.' I had participated as well, but whatever. The moment I had that thought, I heard a voice just as clear a bell in my mind saying "Ichabod has been written over the threshold of this assembly." Didn't really know what to make of that. It was just kind of weird as I am not given to such intrusions of thought, but left the matter til I got home. Having spent a couple decades with my nose being buried in the Bible and my ever present Strongs Concordance (pre computer/internet days) I dug out my Concordance. The only Ichabod I recalled was Ichabod Crane of Headless Horseman fame.
Sure enough there in the Concordance was the name Ichabod, a child of Phineas who was a son of Eli, one of the High Priests of Israel.
The meaning of Icahbod? 'THE SPIRIT HAS DEPARTED.'
My wife and I never returned to that church or any group associated with same. It was a moment. What can I say?
About a year later the pastor of the church was caught in an affair with the secretary, his wife had one with one of the 'elders' and the group disintegrated and scattered.
Having and maintaining a fervent interest in Word I remained in personal studies the entire time, and of course eventually proved to myself that it was all a scriptural scam of gigantic proportions made of course to fleece the sheep of their hard earned $$$$. Needless to say I remain a severe skeptic of anything that ever came out of those groups and for learned reasonings. But it was just something I had to go through.
In a charismatic home church we attended for a few years after that, the pastor, a very sincere man of God prophesied over my wife and I that none of that time or experience would be wasted. He didn't really know anything of what we had went through.
I witnessed that prophecy as a word of truth. Learned a lot
Basic lesson? Well, misplaced trust in religious authorities of any kind can lead you down some real dead end alleys and cost you a LOT of time and money.
enjoy!
smaller
Bonairos
Member
patience7
Member
I really don't understand why some preachers are called "WOF preachers." Aren't we to have faith in Gods word? Aren't we to believe in the promises of God?
I listened to one of her CD's this morning and in taking notes; she went to scripture 10 times (if not more if I missed some!) Yes, she does intertwine her life or practical applications to scripture but I think it helps with the learning process by knowing how to practically apply the word to daily life.
Should I be envious or jealous of her lifestyle because God has blessed her for her dedication to spreading His word, for helping millions? I don't care where she lives. How do you know that 90% of what I give goes to her lifestyle? I give because I like what she does and how she teaches and I believe she is faithful in her walk with God that's why I support her ministry. I can't feed the people in Africa - I can't feed or help the homeless in the inner cities but I can give to a ministry that does those things and be a part in that work. I do receive a yearly accounting of the ministries finances - so I'm okay with everything. Thank you for your concern about where my finances are going - although I know that's not why this was posted. It was to black ball Joyce Meyer. There are ministries out there that are probably misappropriating funds but we shouldn't lump them altogether. We give for the furtherance of the gospel - the individuals in the ministries that misappropriate the funds stand accountable before God.
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=38683&p=574976&viewfull=1#post574976
The above should link to a posting of a few years of Joyce Meyers financial reports.
I tried to copy it to here but it did one of those computer things and went goofy.
Joyce get a 'C' grade for her reporting from one of the watch dog type reporting places. She is one of the better of the WoF types.
If i have posted this correctly the below link is to the 'watchdog' site. I have no reason to believe the watch dog site is 100% right but we should look into these things.
http://www.ministrywatch.com/home.aspx
We should support ministries. We should check them out. I have a bit of problem with folks asking for money when they hold over 70 million dollars worth of assets.
The above should link to a posting of a few years of Joyce Meyers financial reports.
I tried to copy it to here but it did one of those computer things and went goofy.
Joyce get a 'C' grade for her reporting from one of the watch dog type reporting places. She is one of the better of the WoF types.
If i have posted this correctly the below link is to the 'watchdog' site. I have no reason to believe the watch dog site is 100% right but we should look into these things.
http://www.ministrywatch.com/home.aspx
We should support ministries. We should check them out. I have a bit of problem with folks asking for money when they hold over 70 million dollars worth of assets.
patience7
Member
I just have trouble with getting information from the internet or the media for that matter - they really aren't known for their honesty - garbage yes - honesty - no!
WoF is sorta a grouping of identification. Most of them say in some form give me your money and God will bless you. I believe we are to give because it is the right thing to do. Not to force God in to giving back. Sorta the same as the chain letters that say you must send this to 10 people and God will bless you for it...
But you accept a report that COULD be totally self serving?
I agree i do not trust much of the information i get in any form... to try and find some balance, i read the pro and con and find some middle ground.
patience7
Member
Danus
Member
The Word of faith movement is not the same as saying we have faith in God and of God's promises. It's not like the faith that we have in Jesus Christ as our savior, that he died on the Cross to pay a price for our sin, a price we can not pay Paid for, for us by him, and we have "faith" in that.
WOF is a very different understanding of faith. It's more like faith in our faith. Ultimately it;s more about faith in ones self. It's about having faith that you will have a good day, or a great job, or that better things await you in this world.....that type of thing. It's the type of "faith" preached to a group of salesmen, or a football team where the message is; "YOU CAN DO IT!
This is not biblical "faith". If anything the bible teaches us we "can't" do it, and that we need Jesus Christ for that reason. It's not about us. It's not about having a good day, or having a great life, with a big house, and a fine car, or a wonderful job....Now you may very well have those things and that's fine, but that's not why we have faith. WOF says, no your wrong. God wants us to have all those things and they pervert the scriptures to call those things "Blessing".
I'm sure she did. Let's take a look at her use of scripture. Can you give an example? I've looked through her web site and I can't find much at all, but what I have found is used in extremely weak context to daily life vs the context it is meant in the bible. But more than that, she will use scripture for her advantage over yours.
For example, she says of your finances; I’ve discovered the best way to deal with money is to give it away. This is a key factor in helping us to maintain a biblical focus on our finances. And we need to keep on giving, especially during challenging financial times. If we obey God with our finances and give to help other people, the more God will have other people do for us. It’s just that simple.
.... So, Joyce Myers has millions of dollars, but we can't find where she has given more than she has received in terms of dollars, yet she wants you to give more to get more, because when you give your money away God just provides more. The ol' you can't out give God. Which is true, but if you give Joyce Myers $1.00, she gives .10 and keeps .90. Shouldn't she follow her own advice here and give your whole 1.00 away? Then she would get $1.10 or something?No, but you should be concerned. If I rob a bank, would you say I'm blessed for robing a bank because I have the money? "Well that's different. Robbing a bank is illegal!" however, I'm just talking about the blessing part. Is having money and a mansion and a private jet a blessing form God? How do you know she is being blessed because she has these things?
Paul spread the word a heck of a lot more than Joyce Myers and he was thrown into prison. he did not have a dime to his name. In the end he was executed and yet he called it all good. He felt very blessed. Why do you equate God's blessing with wealth?
How do I know 90% of what you give goes to fund Joyce Myers?, Well she says so. 10% of what you give goes to charitable organisations. The remaining 90% goes to the ministry. However, it does take money to run a ministry, but Joyce take a huge chunk of that, while telling you to give more to her so that God might bless you. Here are some quotes form Joyce. These are public quotes.
“I want $7 million check. That would really bless me.”
“God does not need our money. The giving thing is not for Him, it’s for us.”
“Our volunteers will give you a 20-page catalog listing Joyce Meyer’s products for sale. Videotapes, audiotapes, books, CDs, calendars and coffee mugs are available. What is a good buy? The $3 for palm-size books and $110 for videotape packages of “Enjoying Everyday Life. Buy $500 worth of product and get $100 free.”
Bottom line....if you get something out of listening to this woman and donating to her, or buying her products, then good. But, this is not Christianity at it's heart.
You don't need to give Joyce your money to find out what God is trying to say to you, but if you want to give you money to a good cause, then why not give to a real charity instead of paying Joyce Myers? Why not bypass Joyce Myers in your own efforts to be a good steward of God's money?
Joyce Myers is a show, and she uses God as her theme. They all do it, and their goal is to make lots of money....oh and spread the good word and all, but money first. These people are in show business.
Let's look at a few of their homes and blessing.
Benny Hinn
- Creflo Dollar
- Jan and Paul Crouch
- Mike Murdock
- Kenny Copeland
Last edited by a moderator:
Looks like business is good. IMHO, it is a sin for them to live in houses such as these.Let's look at a few of their homes and blessing.
Benny Hinn
- Creflo Dollar
- Jan and Paul Crouch
- Mike Murdock
- Kenny Copeland
1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
1Ti 6:4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,
1Ti 6:5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
1Ti 6:6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1Ti 6:11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. (NKJV)
Interesting how for Paul food and clothing was enough...
stovebolts
Member
....
There are great Christian thinkers who I may not agree with totally, Luther for one, but never the less I hold in extreme high regard & respect.
Rob Bell would not even make my "Z" list.But I do like to hear what other believe. I think that's what you'er saying as well.
ha, yes, I am mixing all them names in the same company. Talk a bout a bees hive huh
I suppose I've always gotten the idea that if you want to talk bad about somebody, then it should be merited by reading their work, and not an excerpt or another commentary.
I studied and read much on Augustine because he's foundational when studying the works of Calvin or Luther, and I've got a great respect for them all, though Calvin was a bit dry for me, but perhaps it was just a period in my journey.
Anyway, I enjoyed Rob Bell because of his honestly and much of what he says in his books resonate with my life, and what I've endured or struggled with. He openly admits that he hasn't gotten anything "Nailed" and that there are part of the Bible he wrestles with, and that kind of honesty I can respect. I can't say that it's unfortunate that he's taken a bent towards universalism because I'm sure its' something he's struggled with, but it shows his tender heart toward humanity. I honestly think he's one of the rare people who care more for others than he does for himself.
I was looking at all the estates of the WOF ministries, and it reminded me of Rob Bell. Rob Bell moved out of his suburban home when he was preacher at Mars Hill in Grand Rapids to live in with the inner city folks. I've attended his Church several times and I've met him twice. He's not a flashy guy and actually, I was thinking he needed to change his jeans cause they were dirty...
Pizzaguy
Member
Quoted on it's own.... so you'll read that part again.
These are not ministries, they are TV shows.
I like to say that most pastors, bishops, and other high member of the church do this feel good preaching and not taking the time really make sure there followers are really understand what having faith and living by the word of GOD really mean and about. It cool to do it but that all then I feel it not right. And Jesus was a poor man and didn't do it for the money and I feel they selling God and salvation..
farouk
Member
patience7:
Hi; yes I know many ppl like Joyce Meyer ministries. There's certainly a lot of Biblical emphasis.
I saw her on TV; she certainly has a lot of character, too!
patience7
Member
My faith is in God, His promises, and the validity of His word to bring about what it says. I can't make myself have a good day, nor a great job! The thing is I can pray about my day and pray about my job and know that God is working in those situations to aid me in my mental attitude toward both. I can complain and hate my job or I can be appreciative of my job and therefore have a great job by the grace of God. It's called renewing our minds. Can I believe and have faith in this? "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
Definition of faith - Strong's Concordance -pistis noun
1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
a) relating to God
1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
b) relating to Christ
1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
c) the religious beliefs of Christians
d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
2) fidelity, faithfulness
a) the character of one who can be relied on
So can I believe and have faith in EVERYTHING God tells me? For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness? Romans 4:3 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also. Romans 4:11 From what I see and what I believe to be true is that faith and belief are synonymous and believing (pisteuo verb - to believe) is the action of faith/belief.
From some of my notes from teaching: It is Finished. John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. Understand what he has already done. When he sat down on the right hand of God we were delivered from the power of sin. Sin no longer has dominion over us. We are no longer slaves to sin. (Romans 6:1,2) Romans 6:11 Likewise (because of all that was said before in 1-10) reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Because we were dead in our sins and made alive or quickened through Jesus Christ then spiritually we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:5,6)
For example, she says of your finances; I’ve discovered the best way to deal with money is to give it away. This is a key factor in helping us to maintain a biblical focus on our finances. And we need to keep on giving, especially during challenging financial times. If we obey God with our finances and give to help other people, the more God will have other people do for us. It’s just that simple.
Everybody sees things differently. I give with a cheerful heart then God will honor that. I am giving to the ministry of MY choice because I am being spiritually fed by this ministry and I DO believe that she is carrying out what she confesses to be carrying out. I DO NOT BELIEVE that she is doing what she is doing for HER BENEFIT.
Because of the work she does. Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth but thou shalt meditate therein day and night that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein for THEN thou shalt make thy way prosperous and THEN thou shalt have good success. (Is it okay to place my faith in God and believe what he says in this verse and believe that it is applicable to lives today?)
Yes, Paul's needs were met - sometimes he did have abundance and then at other times he didn't - Philippians 4:11,12 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased and I know how to abound:. . . .
I don't equate all of God's blessings as being in the wealth category. I don't think I am the one who brought up the subject of money - It's just always brought up when someone speaks of "WOF".
I wonder how much it cost to pay employees, television stations, radio stations, trips oversees, feeding people in need, disaster relief, etc. Laugh if you must; others have; but your condescension of the matter does not negate that it does take money to do these things. As I said if Joyce Meyer is misappropriating funds then she will stand accountable for her deeds as I will stand accountable for mine.
Yea, that would bless me to! What is the context?
Give and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. Luke 6:38
I watch her almost every day, I have and listen to many of her CDs and I haven't ever heard this before but it really doesn't bother me personally. I will purchase what I can that will help me grow spiritually.
I do not give to Joyce Meyer Ministries to find out what God is trying to say to me - although I can derive a better understanding from the teachings. I do give in other ways from any abundance in my life. See the thing is I don't believe that she is in it for show business - I believe that she is in it to further the gospel.
Danus
Member
Well, please understand that I am not attacking you.
I am criticizing Joyce Myers, and all the others I've listed as well as the WOF movement in general as being either heretical or greedy. In the case of Joyce Myers, greedy and deceptive in her motives for what she is doing. However, not heretical in that like some of the other Joel Olsten and Joseph Prince, Joyce has learned to walk the fine line of heresy and profits.
Please understand that these 'ministers" personally make over 100,000 million dollars a year for their own use, and that does not count what their "churches" bring in and also provide for them. If you think they spend the majority of their money on teaching the word of God, or helping to feed, educate and clothe the poor...they don't.
Mike
Member
The words that precede these put this in perspective for me.
Philippians 4
"11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want."
I don't know how a prosperity preacher can read this and conclude that God will bless us with worldly riches if we have enough faith. I'm not focusing on Joyce Meyer exactly. I don't listen to her enough to even say she's into prosperity. My comment is directed toward the heavy hitting Prosperity Gospel preachers. My sadness is for all their dejected followers who come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with them because they don't have that big house or new car.
As for Joyce, I think pastors aught to be cognizant of the image they project. She has been the target of investigations into her finances, and to the casual observer, she seems to be amassing an empire as if she were a rock star. (Remember, this is the image she projects to me.) I know I'm not the only one. Many people are suspicious of her because of her lavish lifestyle.
I'm never one to condemn people with wealth. What they choose to do with their money is between them and God. To be rich is NOT to be Godless, and to be poor is NOT to be pious. But a Pastor is responsible for the flock, and she aught to consider that her image is corrupted by money. I'm afraid for the fence sitters who are turned off to religion because of her powerful, gaudy life style.
okmike
Member
I found this at a web site for a new book, taken from the introduction:
http://prosperitygospelexposed.wordpress.com/
The Epistle of the Apostles says:
And he said unto us: There shall come forth another doctrine, and a confusion, and because they shall strive after their own advancement, they shall bring forth an unprofitable doctrine. And therein shall be a deadly corruption (of uncleanness), and they shall teach it, and shall turn away them that believe on me from my commandments and cut them off from eternal life. But woe unto them that falsify this my word and commandment, and draw away them that hearken to them from the life of the doctrine and separate themselves from the commandment of life: for together with them they shall come into everlasting judgement. (M. R. James, The Apocryphal New Testament (Oxford: Clarendon Press 1924), p. 503.)
Notice that this teaching is about striving “after their own advancement,†which is the gospel we have today; you can be successful, you can be happy, God has a wonderful plan for your life, etc. I believe the “confusion†refers to the fact that the false prophets teach a different interpretation of the Scriptures, one that is convoluted, or twisted beyond good sense.
Another prophecy, from Book 2 of the Jewish and Christian Sibylline Oracles, takes place during the decades before the coming of the final Antichrist in the last days:
. . . and there will be no consent in doctrines when some deceivers arise in the world with great fame, as prophets, and then shall Belial come, and do many wonders among men. (The Sibylline Oracles; Revised and Updated, by Michael D. Fortner, page 47.)
These Charismatic false prophets are among the most famous false prophets the world has ever known, because their TV programs are broadcast in many nations around the world; and they actually call themselves prophets. The prophecy does not call them prophets, but that they appear as prophets.
And he said unto us: There shall come forth another doctrine, and a confusion, and because they shall strive after their own advancement, they shall bring forth an unprofitable doctrine. And therein shall be a deadly corruption (of uncleanness), and they shall teach it, and shall turn away them that believe on me from my commandments and cut them off from eternal life. But woe unto them that falsify this my word and commandment, and draw away them that hearken to them from the life of the doctrine and separate themselves from the commandment of life: for together with them they shall come into everlasting judgement. (M. R. James, The Apocryphal New Testament (Oxford: Clarendon Press 1924), p. 503.)
Notice that this teaching is about striving “after their own advancement,†which is the gospel we have today; you can be successful, you can be happy, God has a wonderful plan for your life, etc. I believe the “confusion†refers to the fact that the false prophets teach a different interpretation of the Scriptures, one that is convoluted, or twisted beyond good sense.
Another prophecy, from Book 2 of the Jewish and Christian Sibylline Oracles, takes place during the decades before the coming of the final Antichrist in the last days:
. . . and there will be no consent in doctrines when some deceivers arise in the world with great fame, as prophets, and then shall Belial come, and do many wonders among men. (The Sibylline Oracles; Revised and Updated, by Michael D. Fortner, page 47.)
These Charismatic false prophets are among the most famous false prophets the world has ever known, because their TV programs are broadcast in many nations around the world; and they actually call themselves prophets. The prophecy does not call them prophets, but that they appear as prophets.
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