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Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
I thought the NT testimony was very very clear. Yes God created all things but by/through the Son. Which makes the Son alive before the world began and One with the Father from that beginning. I read that I didn't invent it. He ascended to where He was before.
What you're doing is beginning with an idea that "Jesus is God" and working the interpretation around this. When you encounter things like "The Father is the Only True God" as repeatedly said in the Bible, you can't really reconcile that. You just explain it away and reinterpret it. I thought the New Testament was very very clear that the only God is the Father. Isn't that clear? Why do you not accept John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Ephesians 4:6?
Then I dare to reopen the case. "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us," Jn. 1:14. If you still insist that the Word, logos is not God, not directly referring to the unpronounceable name of YHWH, then suit yourself.
Some of this I agree with, but your argument isn't really with me anymore, but primarily with the Trinitarian church who are the ones in nearly complete disagreement with you regarding the deity of a human being. I have repeatedly said worshipping a human is idolatry and yet they all readily admit Jesus is a human. No one seems to care. Try actually engaging one of them and see what they say.
What I doing is reading the testimony about the Son and believing that testimony. What you're doing is believing Jesus is not God and therefore reinterpreding all testimony about the Son who was from the beginning. As in a begotten man from His beginning.
I am going with the Father is the only true God. Grammatically, that rules out the Son as being God. As to whether or not he pre-existed, the evidence doesn't much support that theory. Do you believe he could have possibly pre-existed as an angel? Or perhaps in God's plan and foreknowledge?
The testimony supports/states He preexisted. The Superiority of His "Sonship" as contrasted to the angels of God. (Hebrews 1) No to angel as He is the only begotten Son who has the Fathers nature. (God) and He is firstborn as in before the angels and the creation of things in heaven and earth which were brought into existence through/by Him.
Yet it doesn't say he isn't an angel. Angels in the Bible are called sons of God too.
He doesn't know all that the Father knows. So we know for a fact the Son isn't omniscient.
Yet not the invisible God who is one again said to be the "only God" according to 1 Tim. 1:17. And the only God is said to be the Father. John 17:3.
Wonderful. Christians are also made to be like God (Ephesians 4:24) and the fullness of God is in Christians (Ephesians 3:19)
The Father isn't an image, isn't begotten, etc. All of this means the Father is God. There are no other persons who can be God with Him.
Yes we finally agree on something.
See, you still stick onto that false premise that “Christians worship Jesus.” When it comes to worship, God the father is the “what”, Jesus the son is the “how”, again, two sides of the same coin, you can’t have one without another.
I care not to explain it again. But I will state again you cannot believe all that is written of Him and state what you state. That His life began in Mary's womb. That He is a glorified Man.
Then you're flat out wrong because I do believe it.
They were worshipping the Father before Jesus existed. It's also mentioned all over the OT. The Father is YHWH.
You just state you do but clearly you don't.
Do you believe that all things came from God the Father? That's exactly what I believe. That means the creating didn't occur with Jesus and means he isn't the Creator. You don't believe this.
There stated together as in we believe "all things came from the Father" and "all things came through the Son".
Listen closely. God gave the law to Moses. God gave the truth to Jesus; Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ not because he created it, but because of his instrumentality. This didn't happen until after he was born my friend. That means he isn't God in the first place nor the creator of said truth.
God spoke to us in these last days by His Son.
God didn't speak in the past through His Son, but rather through the prophets. Yes, these "last days" began some 2000 years ago when the church was created. Literally "all things" were not brought into existence 2000 years ago.
In the beginning of what? The beginning of the church as 1 John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 1:1-2 say? It's once again, in context refers to the creation of "all things" in the church. The actual creator is once again the only true God, YHWH. No one there in the literal beginning named the Word creating, no one named the Word creating in Acts 4:24-27, no one named the Word creating in Acts 17:24,25, no one there named the Word creating in Hebrews 1:10, etc.
You are mistaken.
Yes, like worshipping a golden calf and calling it YHWH, not only at mount sinai, but carried out through the period of the Israelite kings, which eventually resulted in Israel’s down fall, first the northern kingdom, the southern kingdom, this Samaritan woman in Jn. 4 was a living testimony to that.