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This Fool Deserves Death

Lewis W said:
The Lord Himself created the death penalty, not man. And Jesus did not do away with it. God has ordained man to kill these types of people Romans 13. People today know that they can get appeal after appeal, and by time they finish they have lived a extra 20 years. Solomon said when you have to kill them, do it quickly or the hearts of men will be set to do this crime again. In other words when people see that you have wiped this guy of the face of the earth real fast, they will think before they act. Passive people have put us in a dangerous spot. Yes we are to forgive, but we are to be harsh when needed too. Setting that poor child's head out in the driveway for the mother to see, warrants death, and death quickly.
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Yeah, but there needs to be a trial and such.
 
lewis, i do believe in swift justice but as you know we may meet many a innocent men that got saved that were executed for a crime they didnt commit.

dna in this type of stuff isnt exactly the most accurate.
 
jasoncran said:
lewis, i do believe in swift justice but as you know we may meet many a innocent men that got saved that were executed for a crime they didnt commit.

dna in this type of stuff isnt exactly the most accurate.
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Oh yes there has to be a trial. And yes Jason many have been sent to their graves and did not do the crime. I am talking about people who has been proved to have done the crimes, without some trumped up charges. Like the escaped inmates that killed the mother and 2 daughters, and tried to kill the father. It was proved that they did it and they confessed, those are the kinds of cases that I am talking about.
 
Wow. That's absolutely horrific. Kind of makes me reconsider the death penalty. My problem is that for every 1 case like this--absolutely cruel, obvious guilt, etc.-you have several more complicated, less heinous crimes that still might get the penalty, often because the accused is poor, a minority, uneducated, mentally ill, has a low IQ, or a combination of above factors, plus inadequate representation and overzealous prosecution. So do I wish this guy would be executed? Absolutely. The more I think about it, the more I think that in this time of relativism and doing whatever "feels" right, something absolute and terrifying--like the death penalty--might help society hold onto at least some absolute, universally held values.
 
Christ_empowered said:
Wow. That's absolutely horrific. Kind of makes me reconsider the death penalty. My problem is that for every 1 case like this--absolutely cruel, obvious guilt, etc.-you have several more complicated, less heinous crimes that still might get the penalty, often because the accused is poor, a minority, uneducated, mentally ill, has a low IQ, or a combination of above factors, plus inadequate representation and overzealous prosecution. So do I wish this guy would be executed? Absolutely. The more I think about it, the more I think that in this time of relativism and doing whatever "feels" right, something absolute and terrifying--like the death penalty--might help society hold onto at least some absolute, universally held values.
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Man there is nothing like a over zealous prosecutor, they are some of the worst people on earth. Because they will have a innocent man or woman put to death. Or life in prison with no chance of parole. And then 30 years later DNA frees them. And yes there are more poor in jail than people with money.
 
Lewis and Stovebolts have summed up my thoughts and theology on the matter very well.


This leaves me with one thing to add: I don't see glee or happiness in anyone's post. I could EASILY pull the plug on this guy, but I have no glee in that - I have only disgust.

This man is not defensible, he can only be left up to God.
I suggest he should meet God very soon.
 
StoveBolts said:
Hi Rhea,

Know that I do very much appreciate your tender heart in this matter. But the question I have is this.

How long does society suffer the burden, even if only financial, of an individual who has committed such a horrific crime?
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Good question, I have no ready answer. I'm ready, for example, to put Charles Manson out of his misery. There is no rehab there.

I guess my thoughts on this thread are sort of in the context of this person has not even had a sentencing hearing yet. There may be other information that would make it easier or harder to say, but it has not yet been heard.

So I dunno.

I do know that I'm okay with making prison life more austere than it is. Not for punishment, I'm not for that, but simple and contemplative. And far less expensive.
 
Wow! If he existed during the time When Christ was on earth Christ would have had a provoking view:

Christ: 'this man has really sinned. If you have no sin...be the first to cast a stone on him.'

Man: 'No, Christ. This man should be buried alive.'

Christ: 'Do you even know if I should condemn him I would offer the same level of condemnation to that man who told a lie?'

Man: 'Christ' you are quite strange!'

Christ: 'I died for such so that they might live with me in paradise! And like I said, if you have no sin...cast a stone...'

and Christ would look around and ask the man WHERE ARE YOUR ACCUSSERS? HAVE THEY NOT CONDEMNED YOU?

Anyone in his shoes would long for the mercy of Christ. Well, man has a law.
 
Classik said:
Wow! If he existed during the time When Christ was on earth Christ would have had a provoking view:

Christ: 'this man has really sinned. If you have no sin...be the first to cast a stone on him.'

Man: 'No, Christ. This man should be buried alive.'

Christ: 'Do you even know if I should condemn him I would offer the same level of condemnation to that man who told a lie?'

Man: 'Christ' you are quite strange!'

Christ: 'I died for such so that they might live with me in paradise! And like I said, if you have no sin...cast a stone...'

and Christ would look around and ask the man WHERE ARE YOUR ACCUSSERS? HAVE THEY NOT CONDEMNED YOU?

Anyone in his shoes would long for the mercy of Christ. Well, man has a law.
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If he lived during the time of Christ, they would have killed him, hands down.
 
while christ judges justly,men dont. did christ use his god given power to stop the penality of death for the repenant theif on the cross
 
Well said! But man has a law. It is most painful that this man could repent at his death and make heaven whereas another who has been a christian for ages could just tell a lie and miss heaven. There are many evil people who killed others and sent them to hell. Yet some of these killers at the slightest chance of repentance make heaven after being killed by the police. It is painful.

Everybody wants him condemned. This is man's law. But how many people want him to live so that he could make heaven - and assuming he would cling unto Christ?
 
Classik said:
Well said! But man has a law. It is most painful that this man could repent at his death and make heaven whereas another who has been a christian for ages could just tell a lie and miss heaven. There are many evil people who killed others and sent them to hell. Yet some of these killers at the slightest chance of repentance make heaven after being killed by the police. It is painful.

Everybody wants him condemned. This is man's law. But how many people want him to live so that he could make heaven - and assuming he would cling unto Christ?
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my church has a man who goes to the local prison that has juvenile offenders, some murderes and tells them of the work of the cross.

that said that doesnt mean they should go free. God does set men free from such crimes, i went to church with a saved, drug dealer/user and black arms dealer. he is on fire for the lord and was sentenced to 99 yrs, but served two.
 
Rhea said:
When I read the article I feel immensely sad. :sad
But I do not feel the need to "punish", nor to make his death painful.
I feel sad for the conditions of men that cause them to do such crimes, and feel urged to do more to prevent them. But I do not feel any rage at the criminal - he is broken. Can he be rehabilitated? Perhaps, perhaps not. I think it's worth finding out. Perhaps life in prison for a rehabilitated man could result in advocacy for the helpless that saves another life. Perhaps the article hints that this man would not be such a person, in which case it makes sense to simply remove him from society.

I'm for the death penalty in cases of unrehabilitatable criminal impulse; a quick, quiet, sad necessity to protect other humans. But I don't see what good comes from anger or punishment. I support removing dangerous people from society, and have no particular problem with death penalty if there is no good to be gained by jailing them for life.

But I still don't agree with the anger, the readiness to "flip the switch" and be the one to exact punishment and retribution.

I feel monumental sadness for the boy and his mother. But I'm not able to see what good comes from the hate and anger towards the criminal.
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Very good posting. I think that we see a lot alike. There is 'tough' love for the Christian to not leave left undone. Such as child [rearing] (Heb. 12:4-8) & Matt. 18:13-18. But verse 13 & 14 finds the Loving Motive as the number one object 'first' for anyones repentance. Not to pull the switch, & be happy about it! Some just seem to have True mature Love all mixed up.

And we are at the time to soon find out who are the real Christian & who are only professed ones. I do not think that my post was lost on your maturity. Thanks for this reminder.

It is getting easier daily to seperate some folks by reading Matt. 27:39-43. These professed God servers hated the person of Christ. And of course Christ was totally innocent! Yet, the hate of the [person] is never to be the reason for the punishment. It should always be that of LOVE! And the guilt of the 'fool post' replied to by me was not the issue at all, as you seem to find also.

And about the Rom. 13 chapter?? Soon we will find a real testing, who will it be.. will be our test, Ceasar or God?? (666)


Acts 5:29 says.. 'Then Peter and [THE OTHER Apostles answered and said, We ought to OBEY GOD rather than man.]'


Rom. 13 will be used against all real christians who will not take the mark of false church with Caesar force required. And the duty that Christ had left with Caesar was even conditional of being seperate from the Lords first Commandment. Read it & one can quickly find it cover's nothing about worship, but only ones duty to man's second commandment.

Most seem to think that God executes because of His hate of the person. Obad. 1:16 is called Gods Strange act. (Isa. 28:21) But 'Loving' Justice will be served in the Second Death.

--Elijah
 
jasoncran said:
my church has a man who goes to the local prison that has juvenile offenders, some murderes and tells them of the work of the cross.

that said that doesnt mean they should go free. God does set men free from such crimes, i went to church with a saved, drug dealer/user and black arms dealer. he is on fire for the lord and was sentenced to 99 yrs, but served two.
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I am glad that he served two and is now crazy for Christ. My prayer is that these people should turn to Christ wether killed, imprisoned, maimed or whatever. We could use the law. We only do the wrong thing when we wish for them to die now and never make heaven.
 
Rhea said:
Good question, I have no ready answer. I'm ready, for example, to put Charles Manson out of his misery. There is no rehab there.

I guess my thoughts on this thread are sort of in the context of this person has not even had a sentencing hearing yet. There may be other information that would make it easier or harder to say, but it has not yet been heard.

So I dunno.

I do know that I'm okay with making prison life more austere than it is. Not for punishment, I'm not for that, but simple and contemplative. And far less expensive.
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I hear ya on the prison reform. One of my brother just got out after spending I think about 15 years in Federal Prison. It's no cake walk, and Federal Prison is "nicer" than state prison. But still, I don't see any problem with having them manufacture something besides road signs that could offset the cost of housing them.

But for those that are able to work in Prison to offset the cost, generally it's the ones that can conform to the rules and structure of Prison. I'm not a psych, but I would guess that somebody who could do what this man has done to his own child is highly unpredictable and doesn't respect boundaries, so I don't see somebody like him in a position to even make road signs etc... I really hate to say it, but he's a burden to society.

I'm not saying that this guy doesn't have a story which in his mind justifies his actions. What I am saying is that his actions have left a lasting effect on society and regardless of how this man justified his actions, what he did was just plane wrong regardless of his why. I know this may sound cold to some, but it's the truth and we shouldn't waver in what's truth. I know that when I went through my divorce, and I was getting accused of everything under the sun by my X, a counselor told me some really good advice. Simply put, "If a ravaging wolf is attacking you, you don't ask it about it's puppy-hood".
 
Lewis W said:
This man deserves death I don't care what some of you passive Christians say. This man should be killed for his actions. And I would pull the switch, and then go out to dinner. And people like Drew on this forum are still going to give this guy mercy, but not me, he needs to be cut up alive.
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You are right - I would not advocate for this person's death.

And as soon as you can explain to me why you and I do not also "deserve" death for our sins, I will continue to hold to such a position.

Lewis, can you explain to me how it would be "loving your enemy" to "cut him up alive"?

Let no one misrepresent me - there is simply no basis whatsover to presume that I am any less outraged at this act just because I do not wish to respond by subjecting the culprit to a cruel death.

Neither your moral outrage, nor mine, is the chief consideration here.

Following the model of Jesus is.
 
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