This Fool Deserves Death

[Classik]

Felix has answered well. I am shocked about it. Here is a man who out of his pains murdered someone - feeling relieved. Yet a woman and a doctor are worse murderes! This doctor is concerned particularly with terminating pregnancies. To him, his business is legal. A lot of people consult him for abortions; the doctor is proud about his business and thinks he is the best. Is this not murder? Approving murder? The doctor feels no pains about this. The mother is not bothered: she wants the pregnancy to go.
Why has the world not taken a serious measure?
Abortion is only legal and right before God if the attempt is to save the life of a mother in critical condition. But when people legalize it and openly practise it (just to Satisfy the female) they do more wickedness than this man. This is justified murder! Despicable!
For Christ's sake the babies have souls. They are human beings!
If this man should be murdered, how about the doctors and mothers who allowed it.
I pity God!
It is the desire of Christ for all to make heaven. That does not mean we should continue in wickedness.
I pray that they will come to know Christ.

 

[reba]

Please we need not turn this into an abortion thread. Moderator reba




I have been quiet on that front if i can you all can

 

[jasoncran]

life in 4 ft by 8 ft cell is mercy?

with no windows? you might see daylight once a week. i have trained to deal with those guys in cells. i choose death.

remember the prisonser are all going to hate you. they will wait for the right time and take you out. for what do they have to lose? more life or death sentence.like you they are on death row on life. so it wont mean much to take your evil behind out.

few in society are going to trust that man with a job or kids. in my state the sex offenders law has some issues. they have found them all in the same hotel and or collected together under a bridge as nobody wants them.

i cant trust a rapist, why would let the raper(s) of my sister near her again? i have seen what they have done to her. forgiven yes, but trust so easily, no and no.

my sister was raped at the age of 12, a capital offense in my state, she waited to long to tell and he walked. no evidence etc. he confessed to the crime to my mother one day. he was an acoholic.
the sick thing is..he was a friend of the family.

 

[Lewis]

Well said! But man has a law. It is most painful that this man could repent at his death and make heaven whereas another who has been a christian for ages could just tell a lie and miss heaven. There are many evil people who killed others and sent them to hell. Yet some of these killers at the slightest chance of repentance make heaven after being killed by the police. It is painful.

Everybody wants him condemned. This is man's law. But how many people want him to live so that he could make heaven - and assuming he would cling unto Christ?

A murderer can go to heaven if he or she becomes saved and asks for forgiveness, while they are in the body. Out of the body it is to late. Look at Karla Faye Tucker of Texas, and the crimes that she did. but in jail she became saved and repented, while in her body. But God does at times allow even the saved to pay the consequences with their bodies. But your spirit lives on.

 

[jasoncran]

theres a verse on that..

2 samuel 12:9

Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

<sup id="en-KJV-8297" class="versenum">10</sup>Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
<sup id="en-KJV-8298" class="versenum">11</sup>Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
<sup id="en-KJV-8299" class="versenum">12</sup>For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. <sup id="en-KJV-8300" class="versenum">13</sup>And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

 

[Classik]

A murderer can go to heaven if he or she becomes saved and asks for forgiveness, while they are in the body. Out of the body it is to late. Look at Karla Faye Tucker of Texas, and the crimes that she did. but in jail she became saved and repented, while in her body. But God does at times allow even the saved to pay the consequences with their bodies. But your spirit lives on.

Yes. That is where people feel cheated when a wicked sinner clings to Christ. A murderer who kills an unbeliever could be touched by God and be converted to a heavenly candidate. The soul he killed has been condemned Forever. But he himself is at peace with God.
We can't fight God about it.

 

[Lewis]

Yes. That is where people feel cheated when a wicked sinner clings to Christ. A murderer who kills an unbeliever could be touched by God and be converted to a heavenly candidate. The soul he killed has been condemned Forever. But he himself is at peace with God.
We can't fight God about it.

A murderer can kill a believer and still make it to the kingdom. But you do bring up anther good point and that is if a person who is not saved, yet he or she dies by homicide will they go to heaven ? Now if it is a baby or a child, or somebody who has never heard the Gospel, I would say yes. God is not a cruel God. Can this fool who killed his son make it to heaven yes, but the his body that he killed in must be destroyed, by way of execution. I wish the good old guillotine was still being used, and that is what they give this monster. With one of the first models that had the straight across blade, that they had to raise and keep trying a few times before the head came off. The angled blade only had to be raised and lowered once. But that is to good for him. I want it let down on his neck at least 3 times before his head comes off, so he can know the horror of what he did to that little very sick little boy.

 

[felix]

I wish the good old guillotine was still being used, and that is what they give this monster. With one of the first models that had the straight across blade, that they had to raise and keep trying a few times before the head came off. The angled blade only had to be raised and lowered once. But that is to good for him. I want it let down on his neck at least 3 times before his head comes off, so he can know the horror of what he did to that little very sick little boy.

(Matt 5:38-42) You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have [your] cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

 

[Classik]

A murderer can kill a believer and still make it to the kingdom. But you do bring up anther good point and that is if a person who is not saved, yet he or she dies by homicide will they go to heaven ? Now if it is a baby or a child, or somebody who has never heard the Gospel, I would say yes. God is not a cruel God. Can this fool who killed his son make it to heaven yes, but the his body that he killed in must be destroyed, by way of execution. I wish the good old guillotine was still being used, and that is what they give this monster. With one of the first models that had the straight across blade, that they had to raise and keep trying a few times before the head came off. The angled blade only had to be raised and lowered once. But that is to good for him. I want it let down on his neck at least 3 times before his head comes off, so he can know the horror of what he did to that little very sick little boy.

I believe that some people who died without the Knowledge of Christ made heaven. Not all. Your obedience to the law of your land is what that determines.
My grandmother is in heaven. I know that. She believed God and believed in the Son. She never believed the Son died on the cross. We did all to convince her but to no avail. She had argued over the issue of the greatness of God: 'No man can fight the Son of God. God protects Him' She was not educated and so she worshipped her belief that He never was killed.

People that died thounds of years ago were judged by the law existing in those days.

For this man in question, and Despite the magnitude of his murder he could still have sympathizers. I do not want to sound like men sound. Maybe I am undecided about his end.
I know that it really pains Christ when a sinner dies. If this man should make heaven if allowed to live, and Christ says, 'make a vote', believe me that majority would deny him heaven - and even some believers. Just very few could reluctantly say: 'If his soul is precious to you, LORD, I consent he lives'
The sympathizers would be outnumbered by the others who long for his doom.

I do not have the word for what he did. He offended God.

I put it back to us all, never to sound strange, if freeing this man would make him make heaven in the future, how many of us would bear the pain and say: LIVE?

 

[Elijah674]

Very good posting. I think that we see a lot alike. There is 'tough' love for the Christian to not leave left undone. Such as child [rearing] (Heb. 12:4-8) & Matt. 18:13-18. But verse 13 & 14 finds the Loving Motive as the number one object 'first' for anyones repentance. Not to pull the switch, & be happy about it! Some just seem to have True mature Love all mixed up.

And we are at the time to soon find out who are the real Christian & who are only professed ones. I do not think that my post was lost on your maturity. Thanks for this reminder.

It is getting easier daily to seperate some folks by reading Matt. 27:39-43. These professed God servers hated the person of Christ. And of course Christ was totally innocent! Yet, the hate of the [person] is never to be the reason for the punishment. It should always be that of LOVE! And the guilt of the 'fool post' replied to by me was not the issue at all, as you seem to find also.

And about the Rom. 13 chapter?? Soon we will find a real testing, who will it be.. will be our test, Ceasar or God?? (666)


Acts 5:29 says.. 'Then Peter and [THE OTHER Apostles answered and said, We ought to OBEY GOD rather than man.]'


Rom. 13 will be used against all real christians who will not take the mark of false church with Caesar force required. And the duty that Christ had left with Caesar was even conditional of being seperate from the Lords first Commandment. Read it & one can quickly find it cover's nothing about worship, but only ones duty to man's second commandment.

Most seem to think that God executes because of His hate of the person. Obad. 1:16 is called Gods Strange act. (Isa. 28:21) But 'Loving' Justice will be served in the Second Death.

--Elijah

Reah, where did you go?? I agree that as I read todays postings, it is really starting to sound like 'a good old fun loving lynch party', huh?

You can understand the 'lather' from such ones at the cross, huh? And again, Rom. 13 & its required power from Caesar to force 666 for these Christ/less powered ones, will find these 'fools' deserving death!;) There seems to be a real close connection of hate seen here, huh?!

--Elijah

 

[Rhea]

Reah, where did you go??

I'm still here, just reading. It's kind of sad for me, though. As I read people who earnestly feel that someone "deserves" death, I wonder, "isn't that the logic that this killer used?" We all agree he was totally deranged, but that was his logic, "if I think someone 'deserves' death, it's okay for me to do it." And the discussion bringing all kinds of scripture and justification for making retribution violence okay.

So I haven't been commenting, but I've been reading. It makes me very very sad to experience watching people feel (what they think is) justifiably violent. Anger is a poison in the heart, is my belief. Yes we get angry, that's human, and it's still a poison every time. So it's hard on my heart to watch people embrace anger. It feels very dark and full of anguish to me.

 

[stovebolts]

(Matt 5:38-42) You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have [your] cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

http://www.christianforums.net/f34/eye-eye-38307/#post567676

 

[Rhea]

There are many evil people who killed others and sent them to hell. Yet some of these killers at the slightest chance of repentance make heaven after being killed by the police. It is painful.

Just out of curiosity, why is that painful?

Why is a sincere repentance and redemption painful? Isn't that the most beautiful thing? For an evil deed to be understood, regretted and repented?

 

[Elijah674]

Lewis and Stovebolts have summed up my thoughts and theology on the matter very well.


This leaves me with one thing to add: I don't see glee or happiness in anyone's post. I could EASILY pull the plug on this guy, but I have no glee in that - I have only disgust.
This man is not defensible, he can only be left up to God.
I suggest he should meet God very soon.

If the 'print' is all fact right? But the verdict has not been passed yet. And surely the 'news' is not the jury?? But we do believe in a trial, right?


And the person will most likely have several appeals before his execution? And during that time, perhaps he will find that he was satanic if guilty?


It is hard for me to find all of this hatred (not you you say) for these satanic first death ones, & just pass over the Eternal Second death 'nice' ones who claim great love for all, while being the Rev. 17:1-5 ones causing all of this satanic stuff! (see Luke 12:47-48)


And with what has been in the news for the last several years about romes priests, even being documented as such, and with little or no cry for their justice??? (thousands even?) And here is just one man being accused with 'only' a confession we read!


--Elijah

 

[stovebolts]

So I haven't been commenting, but I've been reading. It makes me very very sad to experience watching people feel (what they think is) justifiably violent. Anger is a poison in the heart, is my belief. Yes we get angry, that's human, and it's still a poison every time. So it's hard on my heart to watch people embrace anger. It feels very dark and full of anguish to me.

Hi Rhea,
What I try to keep in mind is that we are all growing and working through our feelings and regardless if we disagree, it's always good to talk about this kind of stuff.

That being said, I don't think that all anger is poison and anger, if used properly can be a force to bring about good things. In other words, we shouldn't try to supress our anger, but we really need to look at what and why we are angry, then see if our reactions are justified. It reminds me of a story of Jesus.

Mark 3:2-6 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. And he said unto the man who had the withered hand, Stand forth. And he said unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace. And when he had looked around at them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he said unto the man, Stretch forth your hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. And the Pharisees went forth, and immediately took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

Here, we see that Jesus was angered, and it was the result of grieving, not hatred. When we are angered out of hate, then yes, I agree that it's a poison and we see this hatred with this particular sect of the Pharisees.

But if we focus on the anger of Jesus, it's based in grief for others, and he not only does what's right and good (heals the withered hand), but he tries to show others the right way to live.

When I read what this man did, I am grieved that a man could experience such depravity in ones life, or like the Pharisees, have such a disregard for the life of another and honestly, it makes me angry, and it should make you angry too.

But what is important, is identifying what's below that anger. Is it anger based in grief, or anger based in hatred? It's really easy to cross over from grief to hatred...

So the question that I have to ask myself is this. If I had a say in this, and it were my child, how could I make the world a better place? Would it be to lock this person up until he died, or have him killed?

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[Rhea]

Hi Rhea,
What I try to keep in mind is that we are all growing and working through our feelings and regardless if we disagree, it's always good to talk about this kind of stuff.

Agree that there is a process of "working through."

When I read what this man did, I am grieved that a man could experience such depravity in ones life, or like the Pharisees, have such a disregard for the life of another and honestly, it makes me angry, and it should make you angry too.

(tone alert: this question is quietly contemplative, not accusatory or combative)

Angry at what, exactly? What happened that should inspire anger? When I read the article I am sad. SO very sad that a person's thinking could be so broken and misguided that this results. I have worked with people whose thinking is not "normal", I have lived with those with mental disorders and seen what can result. And their different way of thinking does not make me feel angry. Tired sometimes, scared sometimes, frustrated sometimes, overwhelmed sometimes. But not angry, because their tools do not have the capability that others have. Even when "scared" is the response I feel and the need to protect against their impulses, what would cause "anger" to result? Only an assumption that the person is doing it on purpose because they want my anger. And if this assumption were true, why would I harm myself to give them what they want? But I don't believe that assumption is true. I believe they are doing it out of some other misguided motivation and they do not know how to get what it is they really want. And this makes me feel sad that they are trapped without tools to operate in society. This can be a permanent condition or a temporary one.

And as I said above, if fear is the emotion I (or society) feels when seeing an action, I am at peace with protecting society when necessary, but I will still feel sad at the necessity of it.

But what is important, is identifying what's below that anger. Is it anger based in grief, or anger based in hatred? It's really easy to cross over from grief to hatred...

I don't find that, for me. Grief and hatred/anger seem more separate to me.

So the question that I have to ask myself is this. If I had a say in this, and it were my child, how could I make the world a better place? Would it be to lock this person up until he died, or have him killed?

I would ask the same question, but I would not want to answer it in anger, because of the serious risk of doing something that would mimic the very thing that made me angry.

This is partly why I don't believe in "punishment", but rather in trying to fix the problem or mitigate its effects by removal from society.


My 2¢ and is just my view, not something I need others to embrace.

 

[stovebolts]

Rhea,
I do appreciate your perspective. Actually, I agree with much of what you say.

When I look at anger, I look at it as a second hand emotion. In other words, there is a primary emotion just under the anger. Most often, anger is the result of some sort of hurt, or inner pain. In the case of Jesus and the example I gave, Jesus is grieving over the hardness of their hearts. It hurts him to see others miss the bigger picture that we ought to consider life and suffering before rules and regulations, let alone power and authority. Anger is the expression of that pain and hurt caused by grieving.

Most associate anger with flying off the handle, or even being abusive and out of control. That's not the anger I'm talking about. Anger is an emotion that acts on a hurt and acts as a way to preserve a belief in the way we view the world around us. Anger is an expression of dislike and always provokes us toward action. The opposite is apathy, which results in selfishness and non movement, or extremely passive. Apathy, like anger, isn't healthy if sustained for prolonged duration either.

In short, if you see something that you don't like, and it provokes you into action, what we are talking about here is a form of anger. Anger does not always involve hatred, but it always seeks to preserve ones belief. In other words, one can either assert their anger upon others, or they can absorb it. Both are unhealthy expressions of anger. But, when we use that anger to make the world a better place, such as you trying educate others, or help others to come to a better understanding of the world around them, then that's anger expressed in a positive manner.

Anger isn't always expressed yelling and screaming or bottling it up inside feeling helpless...

 

[Rhea]

I see what you're saying, Jeff. Although I would not call that "anger". I would call that "resolve", because, just from a vocabulary sense, I don't equate anger with careful consideration to make change, but rather a more reactionary less thoughtful emotion. But that's semantics, and I see what you are saying.

The responses here that are making me sad are not the ones that seek to carefully address the problem and make change or create safety. The ones that make me sad are the uncontrolled reactionary desire to "pull the switch" and do something "he deserves".

So I think we are saying the same thing with different words.

(interesting note: anger comes from the Norse word for "grief". And I agree with you that often anger comes from grief and fear.)
(Which is perhaps the source of this man's angry crime.)

 

[reba]

My willingness to plug the plug, or flip the switch, is not one of anger just a flat willingness to get the job done, like cleaning the kitchen. If i was on the jury and what we know about this case was the evidence given i would vote death. Not from anger just from practical common sense. He would never kill/hurt again...

Not that our death penalty laws are practical....

 

[stovebolts]

I would ask the same question, but I would not want to answer it in anger, because of the serious risk of doing something that would mimic the very thing that made me angry.

This is partly why I don't believe in "punishment", but rather in trying to fix the problem or mitigate its effects by removal from society.

And these are very wise words. We don't react in the same tone, or as I was told, "Two wrongs don't make a right".

Punishment rarely works to change a person. It may suppress behavior, and if it does change a behavior long enough, it has a chance of changing the way a person sees things around him. But sadly, more often than not when a person is set on their own accord, they go right back to they believe the world around them should be. It's like, "You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

I lost my first born when she was about 4 months old. My first wife smothered her. It took me years to work though that. She was pregnant at the time, and without going into everything, I had to figure out a path to go down, and I didn't know any better and honestly, I was a basket case. I left for a few months and then came back and tried to be a good husband and a good dad to my newborn child all the time refusing to believe I was not only married to, but I was sleeping with the woman who murdered my child. It's simply amazing how we justify stuff when we're confused and don't know how to have what we want. In my case, I wanted a family...

The marriage ended in a very, very ugly divorce several years later and she accused me of everything she was doing, which I was morally against. All three of my daughters were placed in foster care and we both lost them. My oldest is now 21 and we have a good relationship, but her mother refuses to acknowledge that she has any children at all. BTW, there isn't any proof that she murdered our daughter, but she's living hell on earth anyway.

So I reflect on this child who was cut up, and who's head was placed in the driveway where the mother could see is when she came home, and what I see is somebody that has done an immense evil to somebody who is sacred and innocent. And it hurts me deeply that somebody could fall that far from how God wants us to live. So, where I once had a grey area in my life on the subject of the death penalty, I now have a more defined line in the sand where I stand, and I'm no longer afraid to face the world in which we live in and call that which is evil, Evil.

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