Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Paul E. Michael]

If the Persons are distinct

Why "if"? Could any person be not distinct? Could you describe what it would be for a person to be not distinct?

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that identifies them as being separate rather than distinct.

So, according to the way you use your words "separate" and "distinct", for X to be "separate" is for X to not be "distinct", and for Y to be "distinct" is for Y to not be "separate"? Or, instead, would you say that a "separate" thing can be a "distinct" thing/that a "distinct" thing can be a "separate" thing?

 

[Paul E. Michael]

But when a person says "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost", that identifies them as being separate rather than distinct.

I take it by "rather than" you mean "and not". Am I mistaken? So, here, you say that when it is said that the Father IS NOT the Son, it is therein being said that the Father is not distinct, and that the Son is not distinct.

When a person says that Abbott IS NOT Costello, then according to you, would that mean that Abbott is not distinct, and that Costello is not distinct?

When a person says that one half of a sheet of paper IS NOT the other half of it, according to you, does that mean that the left half is not distinct, and that the right half is not distinct?

 

[Paul E. Michael]

The Son was the Word when He made the worlds.

True. And according to Hebrews, the Son was the Son when He made the worlds: "his Son....by whom also he made the worlds."

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

It's interesting to note that the Author of Hebrews says "his Son....by whom also he made the worlds" and does NOT say "the Word....by whom also he made the worlds".

To say that the Son was not the Son when He made the worlds is to blatantly contradict the Author of Hebrews, viz., the Holy Ghost. So, if you ever hear anyone teach that (contrary to Hebrews) the Son was not the Son when He made the worlds, you are therein observing such a teacher blatantly demonstrate that his doctrine is false and IS NOT "straight from the mouth of the Holy Ghost." It's wiser to believe what the Holy Spirit teaches through Scripture than to believe that the Son was not the Son when He made the worlds--even if the false teacher who teaches that the Son was not the Son when He made the worlds tells you that his false doctrine is "straight from the mouth of the Holy Ghost"!

 

[Paul E. Michael]

I think that you are in denial, friend. And while you are denying what is obvious plain in front of you, those who are looking onward can see through it.

Rom 1:3, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Neither Romans 1:3, nor any other passage(s) in the Bible teach that Jesus was created. The Holy Ghost has never taught anyone that Jesus is a creature, and to say that He has taught that is to accuse Him of being a liar.

Do you also want to say that when a traffic jam has made you late for work, that traffic jam has created you?

 

[Cooper]

Neither Romans 1:3, nor any other passage(s) in the Bible teach that Jesus was created. The Holy Ghost has never taught anyone that Jesus is a creature, and to say that He has taught that is to accuse Him of being a liar.

Do you also want to say that when a traffic jam has made you late for work, that traffic jam has created you?

The errors you mentioned, for example 'separate' and 'persons', are a result of the Trinity diagram.
.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Labeling doctrines has been satan's way of denying the truth for centuries. The fact that you have labeled my doctrine with a name in no way precludes that it is untrue.

I am a Trinitarian.

According to what you have handed us here, labeling your doctrine "Trinitarian" is Satan's way of denying the truth that your doctrine is not Trinitarian. So, thanks for the caveat!

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You appear here to be rejecting the idea of monotheism as being unbiblical.

What you've handed us here is a mislabeling of your unitarianism by calling it "monotheism". It's not monotheism that is un-Biblical, it is your unitarianism that is un-Biblical.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Labeling doctrines has been satan's way of denying the truth for centuries. The fact that you have labeled my doctrine with a name in no way precludes that it is untrue.

You are purporting Tritheism, in that you say that "The Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost".

Here, you have told us that your labeling of the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father, by calling it "Tritheism", is Satan's way of denying the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father.

 

[Cooper]

I take it by "rather than" you mean "and not". Am I mistaken? So, here, you say that when it is said that the Father IS NOT the Son, it is therein being said that the Father is not distinct, and that the Son is not distinct.

When a person says that Abbott IS NOT Costello, then according to you, would that mean that Abbott is not distinct, and that Costello is not distinct?

When a person says that one half of a sheet of paper IS NOT the other half of it, according to you, does that mean that the left half is not distinct, and that the right half is not distinct?

Just because God put on clothes (flesh) doesn't mean he is two gods, and to say the invisible God is not the one God made visible is silly. You can stop carving God up.
.

 

[Randy]

Just because God put on clothes (flesh) doesn't mean he is two gods, and to say the invisible God is not the one God made visible is silly. You can stop carving God up.
.

According to John 1:18 it was the only "begotten" Son who became flesh not the unbegotten Father.

Why do you think it is stated of Jesus begotten of the Father before all worlds and of the Father "unbegotten"? The church states both are "fully" God not a part of God as in carved up. That they share the same essence or substance or nature. I gave you the oneness that Jesus Himself taught but you hardened your heart and wouldn't accept His words. The Father in Him and He in us.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here, you have told us that your labeling of the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father, by calling it "Tritheism", is Satan's way of denying the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father.

Can we not mention satan please?

 

[Cooper]

Here, you have told us that your labeling of the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father, by calling it "Tritheism", is Satan's way of denying the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father.

I believe Jesus is the Father made visible (God with us), and they, together with the Holy Spirit (God is Spirit), are One God.

(That is my statement of faith, so that people know.)

Is that what you believe?
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[Cooper]

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[Free]

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That is Unitarianism. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct persons (Trinitarianism), as shown consistently throughout the NT, which means they cannot be the same person.

 

[Cooper]

That is Unitarianism. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct persons (Trinitarianism), as shown consistently throughout the NT, which means they cannot be the same person.

They are distinct.
.

 

[Free]

They are distinct.
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Not in the diagram you posted. If the Father is the Son and is the Holy Spirit, then they cannot be distinct. "They" are all one and the same person, by definition.

That diagram shows Modalism or what I have called the Coexistent Modalism of Oneness theology.

 

[Cooper]

Not in the diagram you posted. If the Father is the Son and is the Holy Spirit, then they cannot be distinct. "They" are all one and the same person, by definition.

That diagram shows Modalism or what I have called the Coexistent Modalism of Oneness theology.

Of course, God is ONE. The Bible says so repeatedly. Jesus the Son, IS God. The Holy Spirit IS God. The Father IS God.

They are ONE. God is ONE. There can only be ONE supreme being.

You have three Gods; each one is not the other. That is polytheism.
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[Free]

Jesus the Son, IS God. The Holy Spirit IS God. The Father IS God.

I know and I agree. That is fully affirmed by the doctrine of the Trinity, as per the diagram that has been given several times.

They are ONE. God is ONE.

They are one in substance, yes, but they are not all the same person. The NT makes that unequivocally clear. In fact, the NT could not be clearer that it was the Son who came down and took on human flesh, not the Father.

There can only be ONE supreme being.

Of course. I have repeatedly stated that Trinitarianism fully affirms monotheism.

You have three Gods; each one is not the other. That is polytheism.
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No it isn't polytheism. How many more times am I going to have to repeat that? I strongly suggest you actually study the doctrine and its history, to see that it was formulated specifically to avoid that charge.

 

[Cooper]

I know and I agree. That is fully affirmed by the doctrine of the Trinity, as per the diagram that has been given several times.


They are one in substance, yes, but they are not all the same person. The NT makes that unequivocally clear. In fact, the NT could not be clearer that it was the Son who came down and took on human flesh, not the Father.


Of course. I have repeatedly stated that Trinitarianism fully affirms monotheism.


No it isn't polytheism. How many more times am I going to have to repeat that? I strongly suggest you actually study the doctrine and its history, to see that it was formulated specifically to avoid that charge.

.
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; (Col 2:9)

Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, (Tit 2:13)

One God in Christ is correct. Leave it at that. No need for a diagram, but if I were to do it again, I would leave out the word "IS" around the edges. (My mistake)
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[Cooper]

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[Free]

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I think this makes it too ambiguous. We have the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but we don't know how the three persons relate to one another. So, we could have one person being all three persons (a contradiction), one person manifesting in three different modes (either Modalism or Coexistent Modalism), polytheism, or it could be Trinitarian, where all three persons are distinct.