Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Cooper]

justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

I, for one, have no trouble answering this question: Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2. So, why can't you answer this question, justbyfaith? Why can't you say either, "Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2" or "Jesus says #2, and He does not say #1"? I had even tried to make it easier for you by putting the words Jesus says in red letters, just as Jesus's words are put in red letters in Bibles. Yet, you still can't answer the question. Why is that, justbyfaith?

---

What (if anything) do you mean by your extra-Biblical phrase, "there is only one true God"?

---

True.


False.

The self-contradictory stupidity you've handed us here is: "The Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT...."

By saying "Yes, the Son is the Father," whether you like to admit it or not, you are indicating that you use your two terms, "the Son" and "the Father" synonymously to denote one and the same subject. So, here is what you have just handed us:

• "Yes, the Son is [the Son]"
• "Yes, [the Father] is the Father"
• "No, the Father is not [the Father]"
• "No, [the Son] is not the Son"

It makes no difference that you have not written the words, "No, the Father is not the Father" and "No, the Son is not the Son", verbatim.

---

Repeating yourself again, eh? All right, then, again I say: What you are referring to by your phrase, "my definition", is your extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism.

You do if your Lord is a two (or more)-person Lord bossing you around.

And, as I said, you have ignored my statement of the truth that the Bible assigns no lower nor upper limit to the number of persons a lord can be, just as you have ignored my statement of the truth that the Bible assigns no lower nor upper limit to the number of persons a god can be.

justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

I, for one, have no trouble answering this question: Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2. So, why can't you answer this question, justbyfaith? Why can't you say either, "Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2" or "Jesus says #2, and He does not say #1"? I had even tried to make it easier for you by putting the words Jesus says in red letters, just as Jesus's words are put in red letters in Bibles. Yet, you still can't answer the question. Why is that, justbyfaith?

---

What (if anything) do you mean by your extra-Biblical phrase, "there is only one true God"?

---

True.


False.

The self-contradictory stupidity you've handed us here is: "The Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT...."

By saying "Yes, the Son is the Father," whether you like to admit it or not, you are indicating that you use your two terms, "the Son" and "the Father" synonymously to denote one and the same subject. So, here is what you have just handed us:

• "Yes, the Son is [the Son]"
• "Yes, [the Father] is the Father"
• "No, the Father is not [the Father]"
• "No, [the Son] is not the Son"

It makes no difference that you have not written the words, "No, the Father is not the Father" and "No, the Son is not the Son", verbatim.

---

Repeating yourself again, eh? All right, then, again I say: What you are referring to by your phrase, "my definition", is your extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism.

You do if your Lord is a two (or more)-person Lord bossing you around.

And, as I said, you have ignored my statement of the truth that the Bible assigns no lower nor upper limit to the number of persons a lord can be, just as you have ignored my statement of the truth that the Bible assigns no lower nor upper limit to the number of persons a god can be.

Keep in mind that while being the Son of God, Jesus was also the Son of Mary.
.

 

[Cooper]

Keep in mind that while being the Son of God, Jesus was also the Son of Mary.
.

I have had a thought. With a heavenly Father and an earthly Mother, Jesus through the Spirit would have access to both heaven and earth.
.

 

[Randy]

He is not the Father.

He is "the Father come in human flesh" (Isaiah 9:6, John 14:7-11).

Even if you should choose to reject this, I know that I have done my part.

Your blood is not on my head.

My salvation is not based on my believing your message that Jesus is the Fathers Spirit in the beginning that became flesh.
Nor have you been appointed as a prophet or apostle or anyone in authority that judgment would come or your head for not specifically stating Jesus is the Father.

I have believed in and loved and prayed to Jesus as far back as my memory goes. I know Him and He knows me. I belong to Him and He is the only way to the Father. I know with certainty that He is not the Father. I know the Father in all His fullness dwells or lives in Him and that He and "His" Father are one and He is the very image of His Father. The only like to like begotten Son.

Since you continue to state He is the Father and state you can see it does not speak well for you in my mind but I am not your judge. You will come before my Lord and He will make a judgment concerning you. I have a better outlook for those who claim/believe Jesus is God but recognize He is not the Father then I do for you.

We shall certainly find who speaks truth out won't we? I know Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

The "natural man" is anyone who does not have the Holy Ghost; who is promised as the result of repentance and baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins.

Doesn't every Christian have the Holy Spirit?

 

[GodsGrace]

I have had a thought. With a heavenly Father and an earthly Mother, Jesus through the Spirit would have access to both heaven and earth.
.

Jesus DID have access to both heaven and earth.
No one descended but Jesus.
No one ascended but Jesus.
John 3:13

Let's remember that Jesus was fully God and fully man.
He was both in heaven from the beginning and on earth from the time of the incarnation.
John 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD/LOGOS, 2nd PERSON OF THE TRINITY, SON

All of the above are the same PERSON in the Trinity.
God Son

 

[Randy]

The concept of "outside of time" is indeed taught in the Bible.

In Isaiah 57:15, God inhabiteth eternity.

And in Ephesians 4:10, Christ rose to fill all things. Time is a created thing; and is only the fourth dimension.

A study of the Bible codes in Genesis 1 bears out that there are ten dimensions in reality. Jesus rose to fill every dimension; and so is far above the fourth dimension.

He is outside of time.



In Daniel 7:9, "the Ancient One sat down to judge"; who I will submit to you is the Father.

How, then, is the following verse palpable?

Jhn 5:22, For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Here, it is even borne out by holy scripture that the Father is the Son.

How then, is it true that one like the son of man appears before the Ancient of Days; who will be given the authority of the kingdom? Is this not referring to the Son?

I don't know the answer to that question.

But I would submit to you another possibility; that in Daniel 7:9-10 an anthropomorphism is being used to describe God the Father.

Because the idea that God the Father is a man is a distinctly mormon concept.

It is also written,

Num 23:19, God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

The scripture teaches that the Father is Omnipresent and outside of time (Isaiah 57:15).

How then can He exist in a finite body, as you say?

Other than in the fact that He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh in the Person of Jesus?

Inhabits eternity is not one who is outside of time but one who exists forever in the passage of time. As in inhabits eternity. Isaiah 57:15

And again I have never stated the Father was a man but since you state the Father was a man then are you a mormon?

 

[GodsGrace]

I have been studying this since I went on line twenty-three years ago in 2000.

Things to know:
In Judaism God is given a proper name to emphasise the personal nature of God. The tetragrammaton (written YHWH) was originally the name of an Edomite or Midianite deity called Yahweh. When the word "LORD" is in all capitals it signifies that the word represents the tetragrammaton Yahweh. Yahweh or “LORD” in this case is a false deity.

I learned that YHWH is written in such a way that it cannot be pronounced because the Jews felt they could no say the name of God. In English we spell it Yahweh. You believe this is wrong?

The JW's do not know what they worship.

Yahweh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Agreed.

~~~~~~~~~~

1Ch 29:20-21
20 David then said to the people, "Now it's your turn to praise the LORD, the God your ancestors worshiped!" So everyone praised the LORD, and they bowed down to honor him and David their king.
21 The next day, the Israelites slaughtered a thousand bulls, a thousand rams, and a thousand lambs, and they offered them as sacrifices to please the LORD, along with offerings of wine.

Pagan worship.

Are you saying that the sacrifices that the Israelites made to God was a pagan ritual?

~~~~~~~~~

Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw the calf, he built an altar before it
Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw the calf, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD."
Exo 32:6 And they rose up early on the next morning, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
Exo 32:7 And the LORD said to Moses, "Go! Get you down, for your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.

Yahweh is LORD and the Golden Calf is LORD.

The people THOUGHT the calf was LORD.
IOW, their new god.
God was angry, He's a jealous God.
1st Commandment.
They had picked up bad habits in Egypt?
Where they slaved for 400 or more years and forgot about God?

Are you saying that LORD was used for ANY deity?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now we come to the true Lord or God.
Jesus is “Yeshua” Lord.

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

JESUS IS GOD
.

Agreed.
Jesus is Yeshua, Lord.
NOT Yeshua LORD.

Here we enter again into the Trinity and I really believe one has to get the Trinity from Christianity
and Christianity claims that God is ONE, but 3 Persons.
IOW 3 in 1.

I think the problem of the PERSONHOOD of each "part" of God.
Not that God can be split into parts. I would use the word ASPECT....
The 2nd PERSON is God's WORD. (Logos)
The 3rd PERSON is God's SPIRIT. (breath, rehma)

 

[Cooper]

To wondering. I had to delete my last post, because there were several questions, and I answered only one.

Would you like to ask them one at a time, and then it will be less confusing? Thank you.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

To wondering. I had to delete my last post, because there were several questions, and I answered only one.

Would you like to ask them one at a time, and then it will be less confusing? Thank you.
.

Sure...This is referring to my post no. 2207

Question 1

I learned that YHWH is written in such a way that it cannot be pronounced because the Jews felt they could not say the name of God. In English we spell it Yahweh. You believe this is wrong?

 

[Cooper]

Sure...This is referring to my post no. 2207

Question 1

I learned that YHWH is written in such a way that it cannot be pronounced because the Jews felt they could not say the name of God. In English we spell it Yahweh. You believe this is wrong?

The spelling doesn't concern me.
Next question. You asked about the God of the Jews. Remember, each nation tended to have its own God or gods often having several. They each had their own name.

Here are the gods of the Old Testament

Ancient Gods of the Old Testament

Who is Baal? What about Asherah, Dagon, Marduk, Moloch and the other pagan gods of the Bible? And was human sacrifice part of their worship?

www.thenotsoinnocentsabroad.com

.

 

[GodsGrace]

The spelling doesn't concern me.
Next question. You asked about the God of the Jews. Remember, each nation tended to have its own God or gods often having several. They each had their own name.

Here are the gods of the Old Testament

Ancient Gods of the Old Testament

Who is Baal? What about Asherah, Dagon, Marduk, Moloch and the other pagan gods of the Bible? And was human sacrifice part of their worship?

www.thenotsoinnocentsabroad.com

.

The question was:

Were they called LORD in the OT?
I can't remember.

Exodus 32:5 (?) speaks about celebrating to a new god.
Did it say LORD?

 

[Randy]

The question was:

Were they called LORD in the OT?
I can't remember.

Exodus 32:5 (?) speaks about celebrating to a new god.
Did it say LORD?

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The Lord says to my lord:[a]
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
a 1 Or Lord

"My Lord" =>Adonai
"God Almighty"=>El Shaddai
Jesus=>You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.

 

[GodsGrace]

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The Lord says to my lord:[a]
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
a 1 Or Lord

"My Lord" =>Adonai
"God Almighty"=>El Shaddai
Jesus=>You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.

Thanks Randy.
The question was regarding a slightly different conversation with another member.

But a question for you.
In the Revelation passage you quoted, shouldn't it read:
The Kingdom of our LORD and of his messiah....

LORD would be El Shaddai and the messiah would, of course, be Jesus.
Also, could you post the actual verse...

 

[BB1956]

justbyfaith said:
So, when it says that there is one Lord Jesus Christ, it is referring to "Lord" with a capital "L" and it is saying that Jesus is the only Lord. However, the Father is also the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

At 2 Corinthians 6:17,18 the only reason the word lord is in your Bible is because like so many translations have left the personal name YHWH(Jehovah/Yahweh) out of scripture, yours has too. In my Bible at 2 Corinthians 6:17, 18 the word lord isn't there two times as it is in your Bible, my Bible has God's personal name YHWH(Jehovah/Yahweh) there two times.

Okay...you still have to deal with the other two verses.[/QUOTE\]

In both scriptures Matthew 11:25, and Luke 10:21 Jesus is praying to his Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth. So these scriptures are not teaching us that it's Jesus, who is Father lord of Heaven and Earth

 

[JLB]

I have had a thought. With a heavenly Father and an earthly Mother, Jesus through the Spirit would have access to both heaven and earth.
.

Just like us someday, when we receive immortal bodies like His.

 

[Randy]

Thanks Randy.
The question was regarding a slightly different conversation with another member.

But a question for you.
In the Revelation passage you quoted, shouldn't it read:
The Kingdom of our LORD and of his messiah....

LORD would be El Shaddai and the messiah would, of course, be Jesus.
Also, could you post the actual verse...

I know that the translation from greek to english, (below link), is Lord but I am not sure why the host of heaven didn't state "The kingdom of our God and His Christ." The glory is given both ways -"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

But as you read we know who is who in our Lord and His Christ.

Greek Concordance: Κυρίου (Kyriou) -- 244 Occurrences

biblehub.com

 

[Cooper]

The question was:

Were they called LORD in the OT?
I can't remember.

Exodus 32:5 (?) speaks about celebrating to a new god.
Did it say LORD?

TWO LORDS
After Yahweh led the Israelites out of Egypt, he commanded Moses in the Ten Commandments not to kill. But when Moses came down the mountain, and saw people dancing around the Golden Calf, Moses cast the tablets of stone on which were written the Ten Commandments down onto the ground, breaking them up at the foot of the mountain. (Exo 32:19)

Then Moses stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “Whoever is on the LORD’s side come to me!” All the sons of Levi gathered themselves to him. And Moses said to them,

“Thus says the LORD God of Israel: Let every man put his sword on his side, and go in and out from entrance to entrance, throughout the camp, and let every man kill his brother, every man, his companion, and every man his neighbour.” (This is not what the I AM would have commanded.)

So, the sons of Levi did according to the words of Moses, and about three thousand men of the people fell that day. (Exo 32:25-28)

There are two G/gods or LORDS, the true God and the god of Moses. JW’s follow the Old Testament LORD, the God of Moses.

Something else Moses did that the true God abhors is his habitual ritual of making burnt offerings.

This is in opposition to the true LORD, who says, “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices. I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, lambs, or goats." (Isaiah 1:11)

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Deuteronomy 12:31 You shall not do so to Yahweh your God: for every abomination to Yahweh, which he hates, have they done to their gods; for even their sons, and their daughters, do they burn in the fire to their gods.

The God of the Jews is called LORD, and so is the true God. (Satan is at work here to deceive, so don’t be fooled.)

The true God asks that we make a living sacrifice of our hearts, not of animals. This is the God who says not to kill, but instead, to love Him with all our heart, and with all our mind, and with all our strength; and we must love our neighbour as we love ourselves. To love our neighbour as ourselves is more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices. Mark 12:33.

Another difference between the Old and New Testaments is that the Jews believe in an earthly kingdom, not a heavenly kingdom. So, although Jews call their god "LORD" the same as Christians, we worship different LORDS.

Read Numbers 31 to learn more about the LORD of Moses.

Saul followed the same LORD as Moses until his conversion, when we see a wonderful change in him.

The Scribes and Pharisees who persecuted Jesus while plotting his death also followed the same LORD as Moses.

Read John 8:44 to discover who their LORD was.
.

 

[Randy]

TWO LORDS
After Yahweh led the Israelites out of Egypt, he commanded Moses in the Ten Commandments not to kill. But when Moses came down the mountain, and saw people dancing around the Golden Calf, Moses cast the tablets of stone on which were written the Ten Commandments down onto the ground, breaking them up at the foot of the mountain. (Exo 32:19)

Then Moses stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “Whoever is on the LORD’s side come to me!” All the sons of Levi gathered themselves to him. And Moses said to them,

“Thus says the LORD God of Israel: Let every man put his sword on his side, and go in and out from entrance to entrance, throughout the camp, and let every man kill his brother, every man, his companion, and every man his neighbour.” (This is not what the I AM would have commanded.)

So, the sons of Levi did according to the words of Moses, and about three thousand men of the people fell that day. (Exo 32:25-28)

There are two G/gods or LORDS, the true God and the god of Moses. JW’s follow the Old Testament LORD, the God of Moses.

Something else Moses did that the true God abhors is his habitual ritual of making burnt offerings.

This is in opposition to the true LORD, who says, “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices. I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, lambs, or goats." (Isaiah 1:11)

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Deuteronomy 12:31 You shall not do so to Yahweh your God: for every abomination to Yahweh, which he hates, have they done to their gods; for even their sons, and their daughters, do they burn in the fire to their gods.

The God of the Jews is called LORD, and so is the true God. (Satan is at work here to deceive, so don’t be fooled.)

The true God asks that we make a living sacrifice of our hearts, not of animals. This is the God who says not to kill, but instead, to love Him with all our heart, and with all our mind, and with all our strength; and we must love our neighbour as we love ourselves. To love our neighbour as ourselves is more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices. Mark 12:33.

Another difference between the Old and New Testaments is that the Jews believe in an earthly kingdom, not a heavenly kingdom. So, although Jews call their god "LORD" the same as Christians, we worship different LORDS.

Read Numbers 31 to learn more about the LORD of Moses.

Saul followed the same LORD as Moses until his conversion, when we see a wonderful change in him.

The Scribes and Pharisees who persecuted Jesus while plotting his death also followed the same LORD as Moses.

Read John 8:44 to discover who their LORD was.
.

Yet "for us" and to those in Israel who feared God as the only Son had not yet been revealed at that time of Moses
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Now this is great faith and courage as they were thrown alive into the fiery furnace for such a reply
And is stated in like manner to the saints in Rev in regard to not taking the mark of the beast nor bowing to the beast


Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered and said to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. 17 If this be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of your hand, O king. 18 But if not, be it known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.”

7000 out of many 10's of thousands not a good ratio at all and God had to act for the sake of His name and promises.
Indeed a people who continuously tested God. And God finally stated "You" broke my covenant even though I was like a husband to you. Yet even then God made a new covenant with them. And the only Son stated, "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"

Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

14He replied, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”

15The Lord said to him, “Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. 16Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. 17Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu. 18Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”

 

[Randy]

Am I correct in reading the poll for this thread and this thread began 18 years ago? Feb 2005 From someone who dropped in and posted as a guest?

 

[Randy]

Being the firstborn of all creation means Jesus is the most important, and we know that is true because the Bible tells us Jesus is the 'I AM' i.e. God.
.

He has supremacy in all things. (first) In regard to the resurrection from the dead He is the beginning of that event and the first to be resurrected.

Paul before Agrippa
They said that the Messiah would die and be the first to rise from death.

To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

The same word "firstborn" as in first.