Three person God identified in the Bible?

[justbyfaith]

You wrote=>Actually, the One on the throne is the Lamb (Revelation 3:21) in the book of Revelation.

Yes He did sit "with" His Father on "His" Fathers throne.

I am not sure what point you wanted to make.

That the Lamb is sitting on the throne.

 

[Randy]

That the Lamb is sitting on the throne.

Ok - but with His Father that's two persons shown. Father and Son

 

[jaybo]

We're over 1300 posts debating if there is a three-person God identified in the Bible! Does anyone think we can make it to 1500? 2000? 2500?

 

[Free]

We're over 1300 posts debating if there is a three-person God identified in the Bible! Does anyone think we can make it to 1500? 2000? 2500?

Please, contribute to the discussion or don’t post.

 

[BB1956]

On the contrary. Here, you have run into the problem of taking The Expositor's Greek Testament out of context, by proof-texting such a small portion of the discussion.

"We cannot find any passage where ἁρπάζω or any of its derivatives has the sense of “holding in possession,” “retaining”. It seems invariably to mean “seize,” “snatch violently”. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense “grasp at” into one which is totally different, “hold fast”. Are we not obliged, then, to think of the ἁρπαγμός (= ἅρπαγμα) as something still future, a res rapienda? Cf. Catena on Mark x. 41 ff. (quoted by Zahn), Jesus’ answer to the sons of Zebedee, οὐκ ἐστὶν ἁρπαγμὸς ἡ τιμή, “the honour is not one to be snatched”. Observe how aptly this view fits the context. In ver. 10, which is the climax of the whole passage, we read that God gave Jesus Christ as a gift (ἐχαρίσατο) the name above every name, i.e., the name (including position, dignity and authority) of Κύριος, Lord, the name which represents the O.T. Jehovah. But this is the highest place Christ has reached. He has always (in Paul’s view) shared in the Divine nature (μ. Θεοῦ). But it is only as the result of His Incarnation, Atonement, Resurrection and Exaltation that He appears to men as on an equality with God, that He is worshipped by them in the way in which Jehovah is worshipped. This position of Κύριος is the reward and crowning-point of the whole process of His voluntary Humiliation. It is the equivalent of that τελείωσις of which the Epistle to the Hebrews speaks. This perfection “He acquired as He successively seized the occasions which His vocation as author of salvation presented to Him, a process moving on the lines of His relations to mortal, sinful men” (Davidson, Hebrews, p. 208). Along the same lines He was raised to the dignity of Κύριος, which is a relation to mankind."

This part is very important: "He has always (in Paul’s view) shared in the Divine nature (μ. Θεοῦ). But it is only as the result of His Incarnation, Atonement, Resurrection and Exaltation that He appears to men as on an equality with God, that He is worshipped by them in the way in which Jehovah is worshipped."

M. R. Vincent both agrees that Christ "shared in the Divine nature," but disagrees as to the meaning of "robbery":

"Thought it not robbery to be equal with God (οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ). Robbery is explained in three ways. (1) A robbing, the act. (2) The thing robbed, a piece of plunder. (3) A prize, a thing to be grasped. Here in the last sense.
Paul does not then say, as A.V., that Christ did not think it robbery to be equal with God: for, (1) that fact goes without. saying in the previous expression, being in the form of God. (2) On this explanation the statement is very awkward. Christ, being in the form of God, did not think it robbery to be equal with God; but, after which we should naturally expect, on the other hand, claimed and asserted equality: whereas the statement is: Christ was in the form of God and did not think it robbery to be equal with God, but (instead) emptied Himself. Christ held fast His assertion of divine dignity, but relinquished it. The antithesis is thus entirely destroyed.
Taking the word ἁρπαγμὸν (A.V., robbery) to mean a highly prized possession, we understand Paul to say that Christ, being, before His incarnation, in the form of God, did not regard His divine equality as a prize which was to be grasped at and retained at all hazards, but, on the contrary, laid aside the form of God, and took upon Himself the nature of man. The emphasis in the passage is upon Christ's humiliation. The fact of His equality with God is stated as a background, in order to throw the circumstances of His incarnation into stronger relief. Hence the peculiar form of Paul's statement Christ's great object was to identify Himself with humanity; not to appear to men as divine but as human. Had He come into the world emphasizing His equality with God, the world would have been amazed, but not saved He did not grasp at this. The rather He counted humanity His prize, and so laid aside the conditions of His preexistent state, and became man." (Word Studies in the New Testament, vol. 2, pp. 878-879).


Any particular reason for not addressing the five points I gave? They really are a crucial part of the context.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Maybe people should give their definition of PERSON in the context of 3 person's of God.
(although I doubt there is unanimity ... at least one might know what the posters meant when they used the word)

* back to munching popcorn and observing *

 

[jaybo]

Please, contribute to the discussion or don’t post.

I am contributing, just not the way that you want me to contribute. I am just pointing out the absurdity of debating this subject ad infinitum. I don't think it will ever be resolved, even if there are 20,000 posts. I know you would like everyone to agree with you, but it ain't gonna happen.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I agree but that wasn’t his purpose (John 3:14-17).

I know. That's the point. Our Lord Jesus showed great longsuffering toward people who sinned against him, because he's exactly like our Father.

The whole point of Paul’s passage in Phil 2:5-8, is that Jesus’s example of humility is to be emulated by his followers.

I agree, because Jesus showed us how God is,

love ye your enemies.....for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Lk.6:35

Jesus held back his wrath against sinners who pounded nails into him. Our Father isn't pleased when any of his children are sinned against. Certainly not his only begotten.

Notice that Paul contrasts Jesus being “in the form of God” with being in “the form of a servant,” “the likeness of men,” and “human form.”

Right and the people who spit on him didn't realize Who they were mocking.

The “emptying” of Jesus then is one of state, a change of the mode of existence. It doesn’t mean that anything of his being God was given up, since God cannot cease to be God.

I'm not saying he ever ceased being God. I'm saying he suspended his judhement on sinners until a later time.

I don’t see how the argument that “God emptied himself of the wrath he has toward people who sin against him” can be sustained.
God’s wrath is only satisfied because of Christ’s work on the cross, and even then that work is only applied to those who believe. Jesus will return in judgement and to carry out the wrath of God on those who don’t believe.
I don’t understand your point here or how this follows from what you stated.

The work of Christ on the cross and throughout his entire ministry shows the love of God to the wicked. This is what pleased our Father.

 

[Cooper]

For me, God is my heavenly Father, my Saviour, and my Baptiser in the Holy Spirit.

One omnipresent God in heaven, on earth, and in my heart.

God with us.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ok - but with His Father that's two persons shown. Father and Son

They are, in a sense, one Person...being the same Spirit (John 4:23-24, John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).

 

[justbyfaith]

I am contributing, just not the way that you want me to contribute. I am just pointing out the absurdity of debating this subject ad infinitum. I don't think it will ever be resolved, even if there are 20,000 posts. I know you would like everyone to agree with you, but it ain't gonna happen.

It will be resolved in the hearts of everyone who receives baptism in Jesus' Name.

 

[BB1956]

On the contrary. Here, you have run into the problem of taking The Expositor's Greek Testament out of context, by proof-texting such a small portion of the discussion.

"We cannot find any passage where ἁρπάζω or any of its derivatives has the sense of “holding in possession,” “retaining”. It seems invariably to mean “seize,” “snatch violently”. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense “grasp at” into one which is totally different, “hold fast”. Are we not obliged, then, to think of the ἁρπαγμός (= ἅρπαγμα) as something still future, a res rapienda? Cf. Catena on Mark x. 41 ff. (quoted by Zahn), Jesus’ answer to the sons of Zebedee, οὐκ ἐστὶν ἁρπαγμὸς ἡ τιμή, “the honour is not one to be snatched”. Observe how aptly this view fits the context. In ver. 10, which is the climax of the whole passage, we read that God gave Jesus Christ as a gift (ἐχαρίσατο) the name above every name, i.e., the name (including position, dignity and authority) of Κύριος, Lord, the name which represents the O.T. Jehovah. But this is the highest place Christ has reached. He has always (in Paul’s view) shared in the Divine nature (μ. Θεοῦ). But it is only as the result of His Incarnation, Atonement, Resurrection and Exaltation that He appears to men as on an equality with God, that He is worshipped by them in the way in which Jehovah is worshipped. This position of Κύριος is the reward and crowning-point of the whole process of His voluntary Humiliation. It is the equivalent of that τελείωσις of which the Epistle to the Hebrews speaks. This perfection “He acquired as He successively seized the occasions which His vocation as author of salvation presented to Him, a process moving on the lines of His relations to mortal, sinful men” (Davidson, Hebrews, p. 208). Along the same lines He was raised to the dignity of Κύριος, which is a relation to mankind."

This part is very important: "He has always (in Paul’s view) shared in the Divine nature (μ. Θεοῦ). But it is only as the result of His Incarnation, Atonement, Resurrection and Exaltation that He appears to men as on an equality with God, that He is worshipped by them in the way in which Jehovah is worshipped."

M. R. Vincent both agrees that Christ "shared in the Divine nature," but disagrees as to the meaning of "robbery":

"Thought it not robbery to be equal with God (οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ). Robbery is explained in three ways. (1) A robbing, the act. (2) The thing robbed, a piece of plunder. (3) A prize, a thing to be grasped. Here in the last sense.
Paul does not then say, as A.V., that Christ did not think it robbery to be equal with God: for, (1) that fact goes without. saying in the previous expression, being in the form of God. (2) On this explanation the statement is very awkward. Christ, being in the form of God, did not think it robbery to be equal with God; but, after which we should naturally expect, on the other hand, claimed and asserted equality: whereas the statement is: Christ was in the form of God and did not think it robbery to be equal with God, but (instead) emptied Himself. Christ held fast His assertion of divine dignity, but relinquished it. The antithesis is thus entirely destroyed.
Taking the word ἁρπαγμὸν (A.V., robbery) to mean a highly prized possession, we understand Paul to say that Christ, being, before His incarnation, in the form of God, did not regard His divine equality as a prize which was to be grasped at and retained at all hazards, but, on the contrary, laid aside the form of God, and took upon Himself the nature of man. The emphasis in the passage is upon Christ's humiliation. The fact of His equality with God is stated as a background, in order to throw the circumstances of His incarnation into stronger relief. Hence the peculiar form of Paul's statement Christ's great object was to identify Himself with humanity; not to appear to men as divine but as human. Had He come into the world emphasizing His equality with God, the world would have been amazed, but not saved He did not grasp at this. The rather He counted humanity His prize, and so laid aside the conditions of His preexistent state, and became man." (Word Studies in the New Testament, vol. 2, pp. 878-879).


Any particular reason for not addressing the five points I gave? They really are a crucial part of the context.

No one gives God a name above every other name he whose name is YHWH is God, and his name has always been above every name and still is. Also no one gives YHWH God his authority because he is already the highest authority and no one is above him in name or authority. So YHWH God GAVE Jesus the name that is above every other name and YHWH GAVE Jesus all authority on the earth and in heaven, but the one Jesus is not above when it comes to authority and name is YHWH God his Father.

It seems to me you're still trying to say regarding Philippians 2:6 that Jesus is equal to God. It's clear at Philippians 2:5 Paul is telling the Philippian Christians who he was talking to at Philippians 2:3-4 to have the same mind as Jesus, so noone is going to convince me that the mind Jesus had, was that he thought himself equal to God. If Jesus thought he was equal to God and Paul was telling the Philippian Christians to have the same mind or same thinking as Jesus, then Paul would have been telling the Philippian Christians to think themselves equal to God, which Paul wasn't doing. But if you want to think that Free, that's your choice. I know Paul wasn't telling the Philippian Christians to think themselves equal to God.

It seems you were saying that the Greek word harpazo has the definition of "retaining or holding in posession." Well I understand there are those who are professors in religious studies in universities and there are some professors in this field who disagree with you.

Strong's Concordance and NAS Exhaustive Cincordance says regarding harpazo: to seize, snatch away, the act of seizing or the thing seized; Thayers Greek Lexicon says: a thing seized or to be seized, the act of seizing; The Liddell & Scott Greek dictionary defines harpazo, "seize hastily, snatch up.

The word harpagmos appears only once in the Bible which is at Philippians 2:6 but there are several words related to harpagmos in the new Testament one is the verb harpazo it appears 13 times, Matthew 11:12, 13:9; John 6:15, 10:12, 28-29; Acts 8:39, 23:10; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 4; 1Thessalonians 4:17; Jude 23; Revelation 12:5.

It's apparent in these scriptures how the various translations KJV, NASB, NRSV, NIV, ASV translates these scriptures that the verb harpazo from which the noun harpagmos is derived and used in Philippians 2:6 always means, to snatch something away, take it by force, pluck, caught away. All the translations recognize the meaning, they never translate it to mean holding on to something one already has.

The adjective harpax which is related to harpagmos appears in four passages, Matthew 7:15; Luke 8:11; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11, 6:10 in the above order The KJV uses the words, ravening, extortioners, extortioners, extortioners. NRSV, ravenous, theives, robbers, robbers. TEV, wild, greedy, theives, theives.

The noun harpage related to harpagmos appears three times, Matthew 23:15; Luke 11:39; Hebrews 10:34. Again translators use words such as extortion, ravening, robbery, greed, plunder, confiscation.

In all cases the words translators used in the various Bible versions imply the basic idea of something being seizing something violently from someone else.

So harpagmos means grasping at something one does not have, that is a "seizure." Christ did not even think of grabbing at equality with God but instead humble himself to self sacrifice. So as I said Jesus wasn't thinking he was equal with God, and this goes along with the context of Philippians 2:3-6

 

[Randy]

They are, in a sense, one Person...being the same Spirit (John 4:23-24, John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).

I think it just shows "authority" as the lamb is before the throne and takes a scroll from the hand of the one seated on the throne. I don't think I, and all others in the faith, will actually be literally seated on a throne with Jesus . The context is authority given over the nations. Which speaks to a premil outlook. Were not ruling over the children of God as we are those children.

I am one with Christ but we are not of the same spirit. His Spirit lives in me with my spirit forever. We are one.

That's why it is written
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

 

[Randy]

For me, God is my heavenly Father, my Saviour, and my Baptiser in the Holy Spirit.

One omnipresent God in heaven, on earth, and in my heart.

God with us.
.

Eastern Church - The Spirit proceeds from the Father
Western Church - The Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son
The NT-The Spirit proceeds from the Father and is poured out or given through or by Jesus. That is the Spirit Jesus sends He received from the Father. (acts 2)
Matt 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[JLB]

Whats your answer?

My answer is; The only begotten Son of God is God; God the Son.

He created all things in heaven and earth.

He is our God and Savior.


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:11-13



Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1



For I am the LORD your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
Isaiah 43:3



For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


These three are one.

The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.




JLB

 

[jaybo]

It will be resolved in the hearts of everyone who receives baptism in Jesus' Name.

But most of the people discussing this are Christians, yet there is much disagreement.

 

[Randy]

My answer is; The only begotten Son of God is God; God the Son.

He created all things in heaven and earth.

He is our God and Savior.


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:11-13



Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1



For I am the LORD your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
Isaiah 43:3



For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


These three are one.

The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.




JLB

Haven't you read they will all be taught by "GOD". Those who listen and learn from the Father as Jesus stated "come to me"
Jesus has a God and Jesus has a Father and that should have carried great weight in your consideration of their relationship if you valued His words.
The Father must be our savior as well and they are not the same person. As you presented a singular savior and creator "Christ Jesus"
Praise be to the God and Father of our "Lord" Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Col 1:19 =>from the will of another AT A POINT IN HISTORY - I didn't write it. Gifted not formed as a begotten God
Jude 1:25 We note the Father also
To the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Isaiah 42:1 I note whose Spirit is on who. And the origin of the Will. From whom vs through whom.
Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

Isaiah 49:6​

​

New International Version​

​

​

6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Col 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

I have no problemincluding Jesus is my savior but it is the Fathers salvation as Jesus came to do the Fathers will not His own and it was the Fathers message as God spoke to us in these last days by His Son.

In calling Jesus (singular) as the creator you left out the Father from whom all things came. I will rectify that now.

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; 16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. 19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.

Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

Genesis
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Daniel
God on His throne Gave and the Son of Man received - WHY DID YOU NOT STATE JESUS IS THE GREAT I AM?
thrones were placed
and one that was ancient of days took his seat;
his raiment was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames,
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued
and came forth from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.

11 I looked then because of the sound of the great words which the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. 13 I saw in the night visions,

and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion
and glory and kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.

Psalm 2 I see the great I am and HIS annointed
Why do the nations conspire,
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the Lord and his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds asunder,
and cast their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord has them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “I have set my king
on Zion, my holy hill.”

7 I will tell of the decree of the Lord:
He said to me, “You are my son,
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron,
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
with trembling 12 kiss his feet,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way;
for his wrath is quickly kindled.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
1Corth
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

‘The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.’

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshipped God, 17 saying:

‘We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small –
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.


The Father unbegotten - The Son begotten of the Father before all worlds (but not made) I agree in part

Think how great the Father is for even the Son keeps His will and remains in His Love and states to all the creation My God and MY Father

 

[JLB]

Haven't you read they will all be taught by "GOD". Those who listen and learn from the Father as Jesus stated "come to me"
Jesus has a God and Jesus has a Father and that should have carried great weight in your consideration of their relationship if you valued His words.
The Father must be our savior as well and they are not the same person. As you presented a singular savior and creator "Christ Jesus"
Praise be to the God and Father of our "Lord" Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

How does any of this somehow “prove” Jesus is not God?


The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.



These three are one.





JLB

 

[Randy]

How does any of this somehow “prove” Jesus is not God?


The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.



These three are one.





JLB

I know and believe Jesus is all that the Father is but the Father is the great I Am.
God created through Jesus and since that same God appointed Jesus heir of all things then He had in His mind beforehand created for Jesus. Its not just Jesus created.
God our Father is our Savior as well as He so loved the world He gave His Son. Jude states so.

Paul noted the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. Who do you think is greater Jesus or His God?

Col 1:19 - From the will of another as one who is defining Jesus's "being" as one who would be His God.

We have the glory of oneness as "Jesus" taught. The Father in Him and He in us. We know who the Spirit proceeds from as Jesus taught, the Father. We know Jesus spoke of another advocate and the Father stated His Spirit. We know Jesus committed His spirit into the Fathers hands.

If it is the "Father" living in Jesus doing "His" work they are one and Jesus is a reflection of the one in Him.
We can certainty reason that the Spirit the Father declares as His own would have His nature and be one in regard to the Father.

Col 1:19 shows Jesus's being combined or put together with the fullness of God. As in living in Him as opposed to Him being that fullness. I certainly see begotten by another. The only other at that point in History is the Father which does include His own Spirit.

Jesus can not be coeternal. He can be all that the Father is. He can be one with the Father. He was appointed Heir of all things and all that belongs to the Father belongs to Him. All that Jesus is, He received from the Father His God.

 

[JLB]

I know and believe Jesus is all that the Father is but the Father is the great I Am.

Let's look at that

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 8:56-59

Jesus said He is I AM.

The Jews picked up stones to stone Him to death for blasphemy.


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.” So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ Exodus 3:1-6,14

The Angel of the Lord, is the LORD, and God as well as the great I AM.


Do you believe the Angel of the Lord is the Father or the Son?



JLB