Three person God identified in the Bible?

[justbyfaith]

Perhaps you can post the verses and highlight where they clearly state that or explain how, exactly, how they do.

Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Here we have the clear teaching that the Father is a Spirit.

Now, below, we will see that the Father dwells in Jesus and Jesus in the Father; which might indicate that the Father is Jesus' Spirit.

Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8, Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

In the above underlined, we can see that Philip asked Jesus to shew them the Father; and that Jesus responded by pointing to Himself: Have I been so long with you and yet thou hast not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

It should be clear in this passage that Jesus is here claiming to be the Father, in His Spirit. He is not claiming to merely be like the Father. In response to Philip's request to shew them the Father, Jesus' response is that Philip should have known Him by now; that He is the Father come in flesh.

 

[justbyfaith]

Could you be more clear as to your point?

Notice what it says here.

Rom 4:24, But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on them that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25, Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Clearly, the Father and the Son raised Jesus from the dead:

Gal 1:1, Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Jhn 10:17, Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Jhn 10:18, No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Nevertheless, there is a problem, Houston.

For this is the correct rendering of Romans 4:24-25.

Rom 4:24, But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25, Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Randy]

Notice what it says here.

Rom 4:24, But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on them that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25, Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Clearly, the Father and the Son raised Jesus from the dead:

Gal 1:1, Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Jhn 10:17, Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Jhn 10:18, No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Nevertheless, there is a problem, Houston.

For this is the correct rendering of Romans 4:24-25.

Rom 4:24, But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25, Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Jesus could only raise Himself from the dead by the Spirit of God. He wills and that Spirit acts. Also He had authority from the Father to do so. He abides within the framework of the Fathers will.

Jesus stated "HE" came down from heaven. "HE" was clear that the "Father" sent Him and He came not to do His will but the will of the one who sent Him. So if Jesus was the Father Himself He was not being truthful. But we know otherwise.

The one from heaven that spoke to Saul who is also called Paul identified Himself as Jesus not the Father.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And again in 1John John testified about the "word of life" who was "with" the Father from the beginning. That life appeared to them. The one they saw, heard and touched.

 

[Cooper]

Great example!

Now listen.
STAFF is one person,,,,flesh. Let flesh be GOD.
But if this flesh is acting as MY MOTHER then this flesh is not my sister.

If flesh is Mary's sister this flesh is not MARY'S MOTHER.

But there is only one flesh, one God.
One of God's attributes is as THE WORD.

Another attribute is as GODS LIVING BREATH.

THE WORD IS JESUS.
THE BREATH IS THE HOLY SPIRIT.

That makes three separate persons, which is worse because it becomes polytheistic.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus could only raise Himself from the dead by the Spirit of God. He wills and that Spirit acts. Also He had authority from the Father to do so. He abides within the framework of the Fathers will.

Jesus stated "HE" came down from heaven. "HE" was clear that the "Father" sent Him and He came not to do His will but the will of the one who sent Him. So if Jesus was the Father Himself He was not being truthful. But we know otherwise.

Could you please give reference to the scriptures that you are referring to, so that I can have a frame of reference. Thanks.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course Jesus had a human will that was distinct from the will of His Spirit-man (the Father).

 

[Randy]

Could you please give reference to the scriptures that you are referring to, so that I can have a frame of reference. Thanks.

1John 1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

 

[Randy]

Of course Jesus had a human will that was distinct from the will of His Spirit-man (the Father).

You think the Father is deceiving us by masquerading as His own Son?
Psalm 110
The Lord says to my lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”

 

[Randy]

I don't see 'begotten' to be a mystery though I suppose if one delves more deeply into any attribute of a transcendant God everyone will eventually hit a 'mystery'. Perhaps our definition of "begotten" varies. I don't see "begotten" to mean created; rather, I heard the term 'eternally generated'. The analogy I seen if a book and a stand where the stand is the Father and the book is the Son and the Father has eternally supported (begotten) the book. Both the book and stand are eternal.



Ah, well this is our major divide. I see Christ as divine. I am assuming you believe Christ has 1 spirit. (I'll let Free repeat for the nth time various verses to support our contention that Christ is divine *giggle* Aside: Granted terms life 'first born' and 'begotten' seemingly lend support to you cause.



ex nihilo nihil fit .. out of nothing, nothing is produced : nothing comes from nothing
If God did not always exist (had a beginning) then He is not immutable and scripture says He is unchangable. If God can change then all His promises are subject to change. God is eternal which is an attribute distinct from time for if time was eternal we would never get to this point in time ... I'm wondering off subject .. *giggle*


Maybe the question is ... can Christ have 2 natures?
Premise 1: God is eternal (cannot die)
Premise 2: Christ died
Conclusion: Christ is not God ...... or Christ has 2 natures (son of man ... and Son of God ... divine and human)

Is it possible to have 2 natures, divine and human
Premise 1: I have a human nature by definition
Premise 2: The Spirit of God dwells in me
Conclusion: I have a divine and human nature. Roman 8:12-13 12 So then, [a]brothers and sisters, we have an obligation, but not to our flesh [our human nature, our worldliness, our sinful capacity], to live according to the [impulses of the] flesh [our nature without the Holy Spirit]— 13 for if you are living according to the [impulses of the] flesh, you are going to die. But if [you are living] by the [power of the Holy] Spirit you are habitually putting to death the sinful deeds of the body, you will [really] live forever.



I can see where you're coming from... terms like "Father" and "begotten" lend strength to your argument. I would say other verses demand the search for other meaning to those terms.



Again, I argue Christ has two nature.
Premise 1: God share His glory with no one. Isaiah 42:8
Premise 2: As you imply above, God is sharing His glory with Christ (every knee shall bow and tongue confess)
Conclusion: Christ is God and since Christ died and God cannot die, Christ is also man

You believe Jesus is not the Father. You only believe in one God.
I do to as I am stating to you the eternal life that is found in the Son is the Father. Col 1:19

People who are not in the faith live in the flesh.
So its not life in the flesh He speaks of.
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

 

[Randy]

Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Here we have the clear teaching that the Father is a Spirit.

Now, below, we will see that the Father dwells in Jesus and Jesus in the Father; which might indicate that the Father is Jesus' Spirit.

Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8, Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

In the above underlined, we can see that Philip asked Jesus to shew them the Father; and that Jesus responded by pointing to Himself: Have I been so long with you and yet thou hast not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

It should be clear in this passage that Jesus is here claiming to be the Father, in His Spirit. He is not claiming to merely be like the Father. In response to Philip's request to shew them the Father, Jesus' response is that Philip should have known Him by now; that He is the Father come in flesh.

We do serve God in the new way of the Spirit not the old way of the written code.

The New covenant introducing by Jesus by shedding of His blood for the forgiveness of sin.
Hebrews 9
In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” e 21In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

[GodsGrace]

justbyfaith
Looks like my REPLY button isn't working.

Where does Romans 4:24 say THEM???

 

[GodsGrace]

That makes three separate persons, which is worse because it becomes polytheistic.
.

How is it 3 separate persons???!!!

I'm ONE PERSON, ONE FLESH....

I'm a MOTHER
a SISTER
a WIFE
an AUNT
a COUSIN


I'm still only ONE PERSON!!!

Are you sure you're a trinitarian???
Honestly asking.
Not Oneness or JW?
Sorry if I ask.

 

[GodsGrace]

You believe Jesus is not the Father. You only believe in one God.
I do to as I am stating to you the eternal life that is found in the Son is the Father. Col 1:19

People who are not in the faith live in the flesh.
So its not life in the flesh He speaks of.
John 6:57
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

Actually Randy, Fastfredy0 is correct.
BEGOTTEN does not mean created.

One of the creeds states:
BEGOTTEN - NOT MADE -

I have to say that I really dislike that English word used BEGOTTEN.
It makes it sound like something was GOTTEN that was not there before.

Fastfredy0 is also correct on the meaNing of the word BEGOTTEN:
It just means something unique. For instance, Jesus is the first of many....
that would be us: He is the head of us....we didn't exist before, so the head didn't exist (in that capacity) before.
But the head was ALWAYS present in creation because the Head of the Body is Christ and He is the WORD, and the WORD always existed as the logos is a part of God.

I like the word GENERATED instead of BEGOTTEN.
Generated means to GET SOMETHING FROM SOMETHING---it would be the same thing.
I think. Maybe fastfredy0 could also give his opinion.

 

[Randy]

Actually Randy, Fastfredy0 is correct.
BEGOTTEN does not mean created.

One of the creeds states:
BEGOTTEN - NOT MADE -

I have to say that I really dislike that English word used BEGOTTEN.
It makes it sound like something was GOTTEN that was not there before.

Fastfredy0 is also correct on the meaNing of the word BEGOTTEN:
It just means something unique. For instance, Jesus is the first of many....
that would be us: He is the head of us....we didn't exist before, so the head didn't exist (in that capacity) before.
But the head was ALWAYS present in creation because the Head of the Body is Christ and He is the WORD, and the WORD always existed as the logos is a part of God.

I like the word GENERATED instead of BEGOTTEN.
Generated means to GET SOMETHING FROM SOMETHING---it would be the same thing.
I think. Maybe fastfredy0 could also give his opinion.

Coeternal beings can't have a Father nor can they be a Son. Jesus is a Son and has a Father.
So yes one can state begotten of the Father before all world but not made. But a Son.
They swallow a camel in doing so. Mystery is their foundation.

They also state Jesus had a human spirit. So I ask if He had a human spirit and a human body what part of Him was God?
Yes, they can state all of Him. But they swallow a camel in doing so.

Col 1:19 is from the will of another at a point in history. That other is defining Jesus's being. Col 1:20 speaks of that other. The very one Jesus calls His God and Father and the only true God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Coeternal beings can't have a Father nor can they be a Son. Jesus is a Son and has a Father.
So yes one can state begotten of the Father before all world but not made. But a Son.
They swallow a camel in doing so. Mystery is their foundation.

They also state Jesus had a human spirit. So I ask if He had a human spirit and a human body what part of Him was God?
Yes, they can state all of Him. But they swallow a camel in doing so.

Col 1:19 is from the will of another at a point in history. That other is defining Jesus's being. Col 1:20 speaks of that other. The very one Jesus calls His God and Father and the only true God.

Who is THEY?

 

[Randy]

How is it 3 separate persons???!!!

I'm ONE PERSON, ONE FLESH....

I'm a MOTHER
a SISTER
a WIFE
an AUNT
a COUSIN


I'm still only ONE PERSON!!!

Are you sure you're a trinitarian???
Honestly asking.
Not Oneness or JW?
Sorry if I ask.

Its one Spirit. The Father in the Son-Fullness - the Spirit without limit not a part. Jesus is all that the Father is. Like to Like as in the only begotten Son or as is also found in history the only begotten God. The Father is the only unbegotten God.
The Holy Spirit is the Father's own Spirit and would have the Fathers nature. That Spirit speaks only what He hears and acts only on the will of the mind of the Spirit. The Father because its His. The Son because He has a place on His Fathers throne.

 

[Randy]

Who is THEY?

Everyone who states such things. Unreasonable, not logical and Jesus was stated as the Firstborn of all creation.
If you state to me coeternal, coequal in regard to Jesus how do you state to me He became the Son?

 

[GodsGrace]

Its one Spirit. The Father in the Son-Fullness - the Spirit without limit not a part. Jesus is all that the Father is. Like to Like as in the only begotten Son or as is also found in history the only begotten God. The Father is the only unbegotten God.
The Holy Spirit is the Father's own Spirit and would have the Fathers nature. That Spirit speaks only what He hears and acts only on the will of the mind of the Spirit. The Father because its His. The Son because He has a place on His Fathers throne.

OK on the spirit.

Two clarificaations:

1. What do you mean by THE ONLY BEGOTTEN GOD? highlighted by me.
2. What do you mean by THE SON HAS A PLACE ON THE FATHER'S THRONE? highlighted
Is this the ONLY reason He is the Son, or are you referring to the fact that Jesus returned to sit at the Father's right hand?

 

[GodsGrace]

Everyone who states such things. Unreasonable, not logical and Jesus was stated as the Firstborn of all creation.
If you state to me coeternal, coequal in regard to Jesus how do you state to me He became the Son?

Randy,
I don't know why we make this so difficult.
Maybe it's just an interesting subject we like to write about.

Think of it like this:

THE SON
THE 2ND PERSON OF THE TRINITY
THE WORD
THE LOGOS

Is all THE SAME PERSON of the Trinity.

Jesus can be referred to as the firstborn of many (which would mean US)...
but Jesus always existed as THE WORD, LOGOS.

Only as a baby Jesus was He born....
BUT HE ALWAYS EXISTED.

 

[Randy]

To our JW visitors.
If you read and accepted it you have judged correctly.
You shall have no other gods before a me.

4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments

However it is also written.
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work

Jesus and the Father are one: In Christ the Father is glorified and the Father though a jealous God would not be jealous of Himself.
Just as it is stated for those in Christ.
2 Tim 2:13
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself