" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven", How Do Non-Futurists Deal With This?

[Hopeful]

This may be the place to insert what Consecrated Life is saying.

Hopeful you mention (a part of Satan’s domain).
Satan’s domain is when the dominion of sin is constant (as a serial killer),

Satan's domain is the heart of everyone who doesn't love God with all their strength and might and their neighbor as himself.
One sin a year manifests satan's kingdom.

To kill a person is a sin. To be a serial killer is a continuous lifestyle.

Kill one man, and you are a murderer for life.

How many times do we forgive a brother who sins against us, if he repents? 70 times 7?

Without end.

To sin is terrible, but may not be unbroken constant sinning (under the dominion/rule of sin.
Mississippi redneck
eddif

One sin got Adam and Eve kicked out of the garden.
One sin cost the Israelites the promised land.
How many sins do you say will cost us eternal life?

 

[Hopeful]

The lord's prayer was initially given to his disciples when they asked him to teach them to pray. It is best first hermeneutically interpreted from the first century setting of the disciples. Jesus was teaching them to have a attitude of welcoming the kingdom of heaven in their live. John had told them to repent (from rituals and dead works of Moses (heb 6- 8)) for the kingdom of heaven was then at hand through Jesus.

Jesus also said that the kingdom comes not with observation but is within.

John stated that the law came by Moses, but grace and truth by Christ Jesus.

When the disciples asked if he would at this time restore the kingdom to Israel, they were asking based on a old testament prophecy about restoring a kingdom like Israel the man knew. It was prophesied that it would be restored to a remnant which remnant they were.

What did the words times and seasons mean to them?

The times and seasons were synonyms for the feasts and festivals which the Israelites were commanded to observe and which commemorated the events and activities experienced by the Israelites in the 40 yrs from Passover to crossing Jordan under joshua.

The replacement or fulfilling of these times and seasons by the children of the new covt would be known as seasons of refreshing as the celebrations continued around them without their faith in them or participation in the sacrifices. To repatriate to the sacrifices was unrepentables and was trampling the blood of the covt and of Jesus under foot.
Jesus was telling the disciples generally that it was not for them, (except at least john ) to experience all the full times and seasons which the father had fore-established through the 40 yrs fore pattern of the Israelites wanderings under Moses. Thus the time of the restoration to the remnant of sons of God would coincide with the groups recrossing Jordan as they fled primarily to Pella and the decapolis mountains east of the jordan, as they had been instructed by Jesus in the olivet.

Jesus has also told the Jews that the kingdom would be taken from them and given to those bearing it's fruits of gal 5:22.

This time at the end of the 40 yrs also coincides with and was foretold by Daniel in chapter 7 as the time for the saints to possess the kingdom.

John told them to repent of sin. (Matt 3:6, Mark 1:5)
Jesus said this..."I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:32)
Where does Jesus call anyone to repent of "rituals and dead works of Moses"?

BTW, welcome to the site !

 

[Hopeful]

By having a more realistic definition of "sin."

Or a false definition of God.

 

[Hopeful]

When was the last time you read and took a long hard look at what the text says in Isaiah?

I happen to be reading it right now !
Do you have a chapter or verse in mind?
And in what context...hard to tell a murderer is our midst or ease of telling one is in our midst?

 

[D-D-W]

Again, the rest of the "Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)" also lives perfectly sinless lives, like God wants and equipt us for.

What is your definition of "sin?" Please tell me it is more than just willful disobedience.

 

[D-D-W]

I happen to be reading it right now !

Good

Do you have a chapter or verse in mind?
And in what context...hard to tell a murderer is our midst or ease of telling one is in our midst?

No - the tenor of the whole book. That the people were idoliters and murderers and God said they would be sent into exile but He would take them back. They were still HIS people.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I knew it would be to much for you to resist .
Giving you the chance, or in your case it may be more accurate to say because of giving you the chance. to shine the never do I sin limelight on anybody but yourself you could not stand the thought of anybody but yourself taking top honors.
So with your own mouth you gave yourself the honors.
Congratulations, you have just sinned .
And you went big I might add.
The sin that God has even singled out among the others that He has a special contempt for , Pride !




Pro 16:5
Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD

Psa 59:12
For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak.

Me, and the rest of the "Church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".
BTW, claiming is different than actually do it, so I must tell you that I actually do it.

I asked you for the name of one person .
You could have given the name of any apostle, any believer down through the ages, out of the thousands.
Yet, you could not resist placing yourself first, ME, ME, ME. I, I, I, above everyone including , "the rest of the church".
A textbook definition of pride on display.

I must tell you that I actually do it. ( Hopeful)

And I must tell you, that yes, I have sinned today.
I became angry with somebody I had no business being angry with, all due to frustration I was carrying around from something totally unrelated to the person I mentally vented on.
I was immediately convicted of it by the Lord and turned myself from my sin to the Throne of His Grace.

 

[Endtimesdeut32]

sense you are implying here that John's understanding was that the " Kingdom of Heaven at hand " was linked to them being "Baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost ." ?

No, The prophets prophecied to John the Baptist. Since then the koh is being preached and men were trying to force their way into it.
The KOH was being progressively revealed by Jesus since his baptism. The lord's prayer, I believe was to help their attitudes of welcoming it and him as lord.. that's all the time I gave for this now.

 

[Consecrated Life]

No, The prophets prophecied to John the Baptist. Since then the koh is being preached and men were trying to force their way into it.
The KOH was being progressively revealed by Jesus since his baptism. The lord's prayer, I believe was to help their attitudes of welcoming it and him as lord.. that's all the time I gave for this now.

"the kingdom of heaven is at hand " sounds much more in concord with " Thy kingdom come " in terms of something that happens quite suddenly .
Neither one of those phrases speaks to me of a progression .

 

[Endtimesdeut32]

John told them to repent of sin. (Matt 3:6, Mark 1:5)
Jesus said this..."I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:32)
Where does Jesus call anyone to repent of "rituals and dead works of Moses"?

BTW, welcome to the site !

I've been here a number of years. Nice to see a revamp and friendly refocus.

Heb 6:1,2

This is conjecture and theory, but when the Jews practiced the law, instead of confessing sin, they hpjust made another sacrifice. Thus, it's possible that leaving the sacrifices would instill a personal accountability (Jer 31:27ff) and a confession of being in sin.

New covt is individualized not corporal like law of Moses.

It's a deeper subject than I want to interact upon right now.

 

[Endtimesdeut32]

"the kingdom of heaven is at hand " sounds much more in concord with " Thy kingdom come " in terms of something that happens quite suddenly .
Neither one of those phrases speaks to me of a progression .

The enlightenment and education was progressive for 3-1/2 yrs. But the king was in their presence! Glory, hallelujah. Gotta check the baby.. bbl

 

[Hopeful]

What is your definition of "sin?" Please tell me it is more than just willful disobedience.

As John wrote, "all unrighteousness is sin." (1 John 5:17)
I agree with John.

 

[Hopeful]

Good

No - the tenor of the whole book. That the people were idoliters and murderers and God said they would be sent into exile but He would take them back. They were still HIS people.

OK...
We are pretty far from what you may be alluding to, so in what regard are you writing?

BTW, all the OT folks were walking in the "flesh", so had no way to walk righteously all the time.
We don't have that limitation any more, as we can crucify the "flesh" and walk in the Spirit.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

I asked you for the name of one person .
You could have given the name of any apostle, any believer down through the ages, out of the thousands.
Yet, you could not resist placing yourself first, ME, ME, ME. I, I, I, above everyone including , "the rest of the church".
A textbook definition of pride on display.

I must tell you that I actually do it. ( Hopeful)

And I must tell you, that yes, I have sinned today.
I became angry with somebody I had no business being angry with, all due to frustration I was carrying around from something totally unrelated to the person I mentally vented on.
I was immediately convicted of it by the Lord and turned myself from my sin to the Throne of His Grace.

I don't know what kind of text books you are reading, but it seems your defense of sin has made it illegal to answer questions about ourselves.
BTW. I thought you were looking for names of the current church, not men of the entire NT.
As no man can tell who is walking in the Spirit all the time, how do you suppose I can name names?
As what is written in the NT is only a sliver of those men's lives, how do we know they didn't fall later after it was written?
Even Paul named a few who had departed from the faith.
I will tell you this, in light of 1 John 1:5, no man in Christ commits sin.
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
We cannot introduce darkness into Christ or into God, so the sinners are not in Christ or in the Father.
Do you feel that nobody is "in Christ"?

 

[Hopeful]

I've been here a number of years. Nice to see a revamp and friendly refocus

Oh yeah, I see the 2017 join date.
You are going to end your 6th year soon.

Heb 6:1,2
This is conjecture and theory, but when the Jews practiced the law, instead of confessing sin, they just made another sacrifice. Thus, it's possible that leaving the sacrifices would instill a personal accountability (Jer 31:27ff) and a confession of being in sin.

For sure, and a reason they rejected John the baptist's ministry.
Men confessed their sins before water baptism.

New covt is individualized not corporal like law of Moses.
It's a deeper subject than I want to interact upon right now.

OK, and welcome back.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I asked you for the name of one person .
You could have given the name of any apostle, any believer down through the ages, out of the thousands.
Yet, you could not resist placing yourself first, ME, ME, ME. I, I, I, above everyone including , "the rest of the church".
A textbook definition of pride on display.

I must tell you that I actually do it. ( Hopeful)

And I must tell you, that yes, I have sinned today.
I became angry with somebody I had no business being angry with, all due to frustration I was carrying around from something totally unrelated to the person I mentally vented on.
I was immediately convicted of it by the Lord and turned myself from my sin to the Throne of His Grace.

As no man can tell who is walking in the Spirit all the time, how do you suppose I can name names?

Then why did you paint yourself into the corner of being a man who "can tell" ?

 

[eddif]

Then why did you paint yourself into the corner of being a man who "can tell" ?

Ecclesiastes 7:14 kjv
14. Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?

Two people on both sides of Ecclesiastes 7:14 have fits trying to deal with each other.

This is one of the only scriptures that I know of that calls for moderation/temperance (?).

The wise man is going to shove wisdom down another’s throat (overly seeing himself as owning wisdom that actually comes from God).
And
The other person is going to (overly owns righteousness that actually comes from God)

Now I actually have to admit (as a redneck) I may be both overly wise and overly righteous at the same time trying to explain thiss. In that case I can not help myself or others.

I think a Bible version of 7:14
Says (?)
(Be not righteous overmuch neither be a fool, but he who loves the Lord will come forth from them both). (?)

Read all the versions you can find.


Wisdom comes from God
Righteousness comes from God

We have both as a gift by permission.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[D-D-W]

New covt is individualized not corporal like law of Moses.

I think you mean corporate (affecting a group of people) rather than corporal (affecting the physical body).

But no matter; One would be very hard pressed to say the New Covenant is not just as corporate as the Mosaic, and the Mosaic was not as individual as the New. There are elements of both in those covenants. The main difference (and what may lead one to believe the New is more individualistic) is how they are joined. The Mosaic was joined by being born into a family; the physical descendants of Jacob. It was an "opt out" arrangement. OTOH, the New is joined by individual choice, as an "opt in" arrangement.

But once you are in, it is just as corporate as the Mosaic.

 

[D-D-W]

BTW, all the OT folks were walking in the "flesh", so had no way to walk righteously all the time.

That is a christian myth.

 

[eddif]

BTW, all the OT folks were walking in the "flesh", so had no way to walk righteously all the time.

All the OT folks? Are we able to say most?

If we say we have no sin, we are liers.

We have one way to get through our problem in this time.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Which means?
When we sin he works in us.
We do not by our own power put on fig leaves and make it better. Oh we try, but it is Christ working in us that solves our sin problem.

There is a slight difference between Jew and Gentile. One is saved by faith and the other through faith to yield one new man. It is not two separate groups providing one new men. Out of their group
But God
Out of Jew and gentile has made one new man.

There is a slight difference between male and female, but from both unified a new persons are born.

There is no accident humans are made like we are. God made an adjustment to Adam and we are who we are.

Unless we listen we are sort of barren.

Mississippi redneck
eddif