" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven", How Do Non-Futurists Deal With This?

[Hopeful]

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Mass Shooting in California - The New York Times ?​

Antifa Rioters Rampage Through Atlanta, Torch Police Vehicle ?​

Your belief that it was the Lord's will that the father of lies, mass murdering, suicides, robbery, rape, burning, sexual slavery, looting , widespread drugs & drug deaths ,etc,etc,etc,, operates just the same in Heaven's Kingdom as he does now here in this world is certainly a unique theology.
I had never heard that Satan's adversarial dominion exists in heaven's kingdom?
1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven"​

It isn't "heaven's kingdom" that the devil works in.
It is man's kingdom.
Christians are not part of that fiasco.

 

[Hopeful]

1 corinthians15:52 ljv
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Yep, the long version of a "glorified body".

Major changes I will need for eternal heaven life.
Romans 6:6 kjv
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Sin no longer has dominion over us. Not that we never ever sin, but the total control is broken.

Then it does dominate "us".
If sin is committed, it is dominating the sinner.

Paul’s statement of bein a wretched man still exists. We will be delivered at the last trump.

Paul's Rom. 7:24 lament was answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

I do not tell people a ceremony of baptism delivers us, but what Jesus did for us is our salvation.

Too bad, as that is the means of His deliverance.

John’s baptism is water baptism.

Yes.
"To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins," (Luke 1:77)

Don’t faint, but I believe our baptism is more spiritual than a water ceremonial water baptism.

Agreed, as it is also the end of the old fleshly oriented man and the raising with Christ of a new, Spiritually oriented creature.

Revelation 3:20 comes to mind. The quickening spirit (KJV) enters us
And
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is done by Jesus so we can have power to witness ti others.
Not so much for us but that others might believe.

Thanks be to God for our second baptism too.
The first is done by men, and the second is done by God.

So
We may differ in our particular beliefs, but then the body of Christ is made of different parts/people. I may not be you and you may not be me, but separately we form the one new man in Christ Jesus.
Who I witness to may not who you witness to.
Mississippi redneck
eddif

OK.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jer 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jer 23:7
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt
Jer 23:8
But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

The real "Kingdom Come" that Jesus pointed the disciples to in the script
Not surprising they were so eager to know the times & the seasons it would come.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus gave specifics to the disciples regarding how he would appear at His return, while still reminding them the time of it was not for them to know:

Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

He told many alive that they would see his coming and those who pierced him would see his coming and it meant coming in judgement which he did. He says there would be NO SIGNS of his coming the second time same as there were no signs of the flood.

That coming in verse 27 refers to the judgement and that no one is to believe fakers who claim to be the christ.

​

​

Mass Shooting in California - The New York Times ?​

Antifa Rioters Rampage Through Atlanta, Torch Police Vehicle ?​

Your belief that it was the Lord's will that the father of lies, mass murdering, suicides, robbery, rape, burning, sexual slavery, looting , widespread drugs & drug deaths ,etc,etc,etc,, operates just the same in Heaven's Kingdom as he does now here in this world is certainly a unique theology.
I had never heard that Satan's adversarial dominion exists in heaven's kingdom?
1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven"​

There are those who believe God is sovereignly making everyone do everything they do. They actually need to answer this.

Those who believe the kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdoms of our Lord see a gentle progress whereby people voluntarily join, not are forced at gunpoint to surrender or die like the Muslims did.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jer 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jer 23:7
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt
Jer 23:8
But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

The real "Kingdom Come" that Jesus pointed the disciples to in the script
Not surprising they were so eager to know the times & the seasons it would come.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons

The OT verses are fulfilled. The kingdom of God has been taken away from Israel and will never ever be restored to them. The apostles knew this and never ever spoke of it as a future event once filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[eddif]

The OT verses are fulfilled. The kingdom of God .has been taken away from Israel and will never ever be restored to them. The apostles knew this and never ever spoke of it as a future event once filled with the Holy Spirit.

This statement of yours is really strange to me. I am not against hearing your statements.

The Jews are taken away. Got that the Jews are gone.

Jesus is there with the disciples.

Then the mixed. up disciples ask about a one time return of the kingdom.
……….. break
statement:
Acts 1:6 kjv
6. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

They are right before the ascension of Jesus.
They are asking the question.
They talk

Jesus is taken up.

Break.
…….,,,,,,

Acts 2 the Jews from the dispersion from the dispersion are in Jerusalem.

Did the Jews not return?

eddif

 

[D-D-W]

It isn't "heaven's kingdom" that the devil works in.
It is man's kingdom.
Christians are not part of that fiasco.

Not so sure about that. In my "short" life of 67 years I have known 2 serial killers and 1 mass murderer. (UGH!!!)

One of the serial killers was (or at least claimed to be) a believer. Donald Miller was his name and he killed a bunch of blonde young women around Lansing MI in the mid 1970s. He attended my wife's home church. I met him at a Campus Action bible study. (Assy of God's version of Campus Crusade) We had a few rather heated doctrinal discussions. A few years later he was caught by police. A decade after that I met a guy who had been saved in prison and knew Miller there. He was preaching the gospel and bringing people to the Lord.

Was he part of God's kingdom? Hard to tell, really. Certainly his acts were not of the kingdom. "Thou shalt not kill."

The third guy, Carillo "CD" Dean, was a member in good standing of the congregation I was in. We were friends. With the exception of one sister who had a discernment gift, there was no indication of anything wrong with him. Then he comes home one night from work and blows away his wife and 2 teen kids. From his prison, he still claims to be a believer. I know the former pastor visits him regularly. Is he saved? Was he at the time? Who knows besides God Himself?

Point is, the devil is trying to infiltrate God's kingdom and bring it to ruin.

 

[eddif]

Not so sure about that. In my "short" life of 67 years I have known 2 serial killers and 1 mass murderer. (UGH!!!)

One of the serial killers was (or at least claimed to be) a believer. Donald Miller was his name and he killed a bunch of blonde young women around Lansing MI in the mid 1970s. He attended my wife's home church. I met him at a Campus Action bible study. (Assy of God's version of Campus Crusade) We had a few rather heated doctrinal discussions. A few years later he was caught by police. A decade after that I met a guy who had been saved in prison and knew Miller there. He was preaching the gospel and bringing people to the Lord.

Was he part of God's kingdom? Hard to tell, really. Certainly his acts were not of the kingdom. "Thou shalt not kill."

The third guy, Carillo "CD" Dean, was a member in good standing of the congregation I was in. We were friends. With the exception of one sister who had a discernment gift, there was no indication of anything wrong with him. Then he comes home one night from work and blows away his wife and 2 teen kids. From his prison, he still claims to be a believer. I know the former pastor visits him regularly. Is he saved? Was he at the time? Who knows besides God Himself?

Point is, the devil is trying to infiltrate God's kingdom and bring it to ruin.

I agree

To me Satan standing in a Christian’s mind is the one who defiles. The temple we are is under attack.

eddif

 

[Consecrated Life]

The Lord answered the disciples that His Glorious Return will be as lighting flashing across the sky as far as the eye can see:
Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

He told many alive that they would see his coming and those who pierced him would see his coming and it meant coming in judgement which he did.

The fact that you believe Jesus Christ has already returned post-accension , in the manner of " .. lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. "
And yet there is not even one independent historical written account of what He said would be His Glorious appearing that you are able to cite is incomprehensible to me.
Are you saying it was just a select group of people who witnessed His coming as, " .. lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. " ?
Do know of somebody , anybody, of well known Christian, Academic, Historical reputation that has ever said such a thing?
I have never heard of anybody ?
I would love to read their take on this , could you name one please?
Thanks .

 

[Consecrated Life]

It isn't "heaven's kingdom" that the devil works in.
It is man's kingdom.
Christians are not part of that fiasco.

Exactly.
That is why you cannot make application using the specific Jesus gave .
The "Kingdom" of heaven established on earth exactly as it is in heaven with 100% absence of sin.

" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven",​

No presence of sin on earth as stated in plain english by Jesus is the insurmountable problem for you

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The fact that you believe Jesus Christ has already returned post-accension , in the manner of " .. lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. "

Never said any such thing. But you should know that Jesus threatened to COME to the Ephesians if they didn’t shape up. This isn’t a way to get the second coming. It’s a coming in Judgement which he did. You need to understand that if you endeavor to understand our position.

And yet there is not even one independent historical written account of what He said would be His Glorious appearing that you are able to cite is incomprehensible to me.

That verse doesn’t mention glorious.

Are you saying it was just a select group of people who witnessed His coming as, " .. lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. " ?

Jesus was telling them not to be fooled.

Do know of somebody , anybody, of well known Christian, Academic, Historical reputation that has ever said such a thing?

I don’t say it either.

I have never heard of anybody ?
I would love to read their take on this , could you name one please?
Thanks .

You’re welcome. You don’t have to agree but you should get it right. God judges nations or people’s who are particularly evil and He judged Judea and the cities he mentioned he would. That is NOT the return mentioned in the latter part of Matthew 24 which he says will have no signs at all.

He said the kingdom of God doesn’t come with the second coming but came with the first. He told his disciples to preach that the Kingdom of God has come NOT the kingdom of God will come in 2000+ years.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This statement of yours is really strange to me. I am not against hearing your statements.

You are kind.

The Jews are taken away. Got that the Jews are gone.

No they aren’t. The earth is full of them.

Jesus is there with the disciples.

Then the mixed. up disciples ask about a one time return of the kingdom.
……….. break
statement:
Acts 1:6 kjv
6. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

They are right before the ascension of Jesus.
They are asking the question.
They talk

Jesus is taken up.

Break.
…….,,,,,,

So far so good.

Acts 2 the Jews from the dispersion from the dispersion are in Jerusalem.

No, the Jews from the dispersion returned millennia before. These Jews just lived elsewhere as Jews do today.

Did the Jews not return?

eddif

We probably disagree on one point but there is no denying that the Jews do not have the kingdom of God. That has been taken away. No one can go to Israel to find God who is no where else on the planet. That is over. This will never ever be restored to them. It has been given elsewhere and God will not remove it from them unless they fail to bear the fruits thereof.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not so sure about that. In my "short" life of 67 years I have known 2 serial killers and 1 mass murderer. (UGH!!!)

One of the serial killers was (or at least claimed to be) a believer. Donald Miller was his name and he killed a bunch of blonde young women around Lansing MI in the mid 1970s. He attended my wife's home church. I met him at a Campus Action bible study. (Assy of God's version of Campus Crusade) We had a few rather heated doctrinal discussions. A few years later he was caught by police. A decade after that I met a guy who had been saved in prison and knew Miller there. He was preaching the gospel and bringing people to the Lord.

Was he part of God's kingdom? Hard to tell, really. Certainly his acts were not of the kingdom. "Thou shalt not kill."

The third guy, Carillo "CD" Dean, was a member in good standing of the congregation I was in. We were friends. With the exception of one sister who had a discernment gift, there was no indication of anything wrong with him. Then he comes home one night from work and blows away his wife and 2 teen kids. From his prison, he still claims to be a believer. I know the former pastor visits him regularly. Is he saved? Was he at the time? Who knows besides God Himself?

Point is, the devil is trying to infiltrate God's kingdom and bring it to ruin.

There is a very popular theology that assures this guy that he’s been brought by irresistible grace into the Kingdom of God and that it cannot never be lost no matter what he does.

 

[Hopeful]

Not so sure about that. In my "short" life of 67 years I have known 2 serial killers and 1 mass murderer. (UGH!!!)

One of the serial killers was (or at least claimed to be) a believer. Donald Miller was his name and he killed a bunch of blonde young women around Lansing MI in the mid 1970s. He attended my wife's home church. I met him at a Campus Action bible study. (Assy of God's version of Campus Crusade) We had a few rather heated doctrinal discussions. A few years later he was caught by police. A decade after that I met a guy who had been saved in prison and knew Miller there. He was preaching the gospel and bringing people to the Lord.

Was he part of God's kingdom? Hard to tell, really. Certainly his acts were not of the kingdom. "Thou shalt not kill."

Are you telling me you can't tell if a murderer was part of God's kingdom or not?
If it was "hard to tell" you should get a better grasp of God's ability to keep the light from the darkness.

The third guy, Carillo "CD" Dean, was a member in good standing of the congregation I was in. We were friends. With the exception of one sister who had a discernment gift, there was no indication of anything wrong with him. Then he comes home one night from work and blows away his wife and 2 teen kids. From his prison, he still claims to be a believer. I know the former pastor visits him regularly. Is he saved? Was he at the time? Who knows besides God Himself?

You are pulling the shades down over your eyes.

Point is, the devil is trying to infiltrate God's kingdom and bring it to ruin.

Bu the devil will never succeed.
Just because you were "around" the devil's disciples, doesn't men you were a part of their domain.

 

[Hopeful]

Exactly.
That is why you cannot make application using the specific Jesus gave .
The "Kingdom" of heaven established on earth exactly as it is in heaven with 100% absence of sin.

" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven",​

No presence of sin on earth as stated in plain english by Jesus is the insurmountable problem for you

Don't you think anyone obeys God here on earth as it is in heaven?
There are some, and God's kingdom is in them.

 

[Hopeful]

There is a very popular theology that assures this guy that he’s been brought by irresistible grace into the Kingdom of God and that it cannot never be lost no matter what he does.

How devilish is that idea...eh?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Don't you think anyone obeys God here on earth as it is in heaven?
There are some, and God's kingdom is in them.

If me or you say we never sin we make Jesus a liar .
All sin except the sinless lamb of God.

 

[Consecrated Life]

He told many alive that they would see his coming and those who pierced him would see his coming and it meant coming in judgement which He did.

So when are you saying He came in judgement ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So when are you saying He came in judgement ?

That’s what “coming in the clouds” means. Jesus said many warnings to that generation. He told his followers to leave when they saw the signs same as Lot was told to leave and Noah was to build a boat.

 

[Consecrated Life]

He told many alive that they would see his coming and those who pierced him would see his coming and it meant coming in judgement which he did.

So when are you saying He came in judgement ?

That’s what “coming in the clouds” means. Jesus said many warnings to that generation. He told his followers to leave when they saw the signs same as Lot was told to leave and Noah was to build a boat.

those who pierced him would see his coming and it meant coming in judgement which he did.

So when are you saying He has already come in judgement ?