" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven", How Do Non-Futurists Deal With This?

[Consecrated Life]

Ecclesiastes 7:14 kjv
14. Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?

Two people on both sides of Ecclesiastes 7:14 have fits trying to deal with each other.

This is one of the only scriptures that I know of that calls for moderation/temperance (?).

The wise man is going to shove wisdom down another’s throat (overly seeing himself as owning wisdom that actually comes from God).
And
The other person is going to (overly owns righteousness that actually comes from God)

Now I actually have to admit (as a redneck) I may be both overly wise and overly righteous at the same time trying to explain thiss. In that case I can not help myself or others.

I think a Bible version of 7:14
Says (?)
(Be not righteous overmuch neither be a fool, but he who loves the Lord will come forth from them both). (?)

Read all the versions you can find.


Wisdom comes from God
Righteousness comes from God

We have both as a gift by permission.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Thanks,
Although in redneck terms I do not consider speaking up about the dead cat in the woodpile that everyone else can smell but won't mention a sign of "wisdom" or professed wisdom.
From one redneck to another I have smelt more than a couple dead cats in the woodpile on this forum in the past and I have been guilty myself of just keeping my mouth shut and enduring the smell .
But sometimes the odor is just to overpowering.

 

[Endtimesdeut32]

I think you mean corporate (affecting a group of people) rather than corporal (affecting the physical body).

Yes, thank you. I think I have been using these interchangeably at times.

"One would be very hard pressed to say the New Covenant is not just as corporate as the Mosaic, and the Mosaic was not as individual as the New. There are elements of both in those covenants."

If we extend the individualism back to Passover in Egypt, then I would agree, but some aspects of the national covt began with the formation of the corporate national address as stated in Heb 5:1-3.

But yes, I see points of both. By the time the manchild left Judea for Pella, in 70 ad and even in the time of receiving the holy spirit in Easter evening, the church was becoming a corporate corporalis.

Carry on

 

[Hopeful]

Then why did you paint yourself into the corner of being a man who "can tell" ?

"I can tell"... you that I live without sin...is what I wrote in post #85.
I can't tell what others are doing or not doing, despite their professions.

That is all you are going to reply to?

 

[Hopeful]

Ecclesiastes 7:14 kjv
14. Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?

Two people on both sides of Ecclesiastes 7:14 have fits trying to deal with each other.

This is one of the only scriptures that I know of that calls for moderation/temperance (?).

The wise man is going to shove wisdom down another’s throat (overly seeing himself as owning wisdom that actually comes from God).
And
The other person is going to (overly owns righteousness that actually comes from God)

Now I actually have to admit (as a redneck) I may be both overly wise and overly righteous at the same time trying to explain thiss. In that case I can not help myself or others.

I think a Bible version of 7:14
Says (?)
(Be not righteous overmuch neither be a fool, but he who loves the Lord will come forth from them both). (?)

Read all the versions you can find.


Wisdom comes from God
Righteousness comes from God

We have both as a gift by permission.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Thanks for your perspective.

 

[Hopeful]

That is a christian myth.

Who of the OT had been reborn of God's seed after the death of their "flesh"? (1 John 3:9, Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24)

 

[Hopeful]

All the OT folks? Are we able to say most?

All of them where unable to be reborn of God's seed which allows us of the NT to walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".

If we say we have no sin, we are liers.

It is a lie, if one is walking in darkness when he says it.
Darkness is sin, and sinners can't honestly say they have no sin. (Pro 4:19)

We have one way to get through our problem in this time.

What problem do you cite?

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Which means?

If God cleanses us of all unrighteousness, can't we say we have no unrighteousness?

When we sin he works in us.

God's ears are closed to the sinners, (1 Peter 3:12), and in fact it is written that He hates them. (Psalm 5:5)
Repent of sin to be heard by God.

We do not by our own power put on fig leaves and make it better. Oh we try, but it is Christ working in us that solves our sin problem.
There is a slight difference between Jew and Gentile. One is saved by faith and the other through faith to yield one new man. It is not two separate groups providing one new men. Out of their group
But God
Out of Jew and gentile has made one new man.
There is a slight difference between male and female, but from both unified a new persons are born.
There is no accident humans are made like we are. God made an adjustment to Adam and we are who we are.
Unless we listen we are sort of barren.
Mississippi redneck
eddif

Did that have anything to do with my post?

 

[Consecrated Life]

"I can tell"... you that I live without sin...is what I wrote in post #85.
I can't tell what others are doing or not doing, despite their professions.

That is all you are going to reply to?

What can I reply to a person who never sins ?

 

[Edward]

What can I reply to a person who never sins ?

The reason this is debated so fiercely between people is that there is confusion, I'll explain.

When he says, I never sin now that I'm a believer, he is talking about his spirit man. When we're born again God gives us a new spirit. He is in direct contact with the Holy Spirit at all times. Our spirit always knows what is the best thing to do and our spirit also, never sins.

So when he says, I don't sin, of his spirit man...of course the carnal self will not understand or believe that. But! If you were to ask the same question from your spirit instead of your carnal mind, then the understanding would come and agreement.

Our spirit man is our new seed of God within ourselves. If we allow him to rise up above the soul and the flesh and bless or allow God to bless people through you like a flowing river of life then we have done our job.

spirit man: I am the righteousness of God, in Christ.
carnal man: I stumble every day sometimes. I sin and ask forgiveness.

Our new spirit from God came to us perfect instantly. But the soul and flesh body of mankind are so damaged by sin, that it does not get renewed instantly. It is a time consuming process we call sanctification.

So it's that guy that sins sometimes, my unperfected carnal self. But I don't identify with him, he is the old man. I rather identify with my spirit man because he is righteous before God and yes, he is sinless.

 

[Edward]

It's the same thing with the mind of Christ. They say, emulate Christ, be led by the Spirit, have the mind of Christ.

When the Spirit grants to you the mind of Christ, you don't really thing it's your carnal man who gets it, do you?! My spirit has the mind of Christ. We know this because the Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit and will teach us all truths. In Christ/Christ in me, HS constantly talking to our spirit, therefore, my spirit has the mind of Christ.

Right? :yes

 

[Consecrated Life]

The reason this is debated so fiercely between people is that there is confusion, I'll explain.

When he says, I never sin now that I'm a believer, he is talking about his spirit man. When we're born again God gives us a new spirit. He is in direct contact with the Holy Spirit at all times. Our spirit always knows what is the best thing to do and our spirit also, never sins.

So when he says, I don't sin, of his spirit man...of course the carnal self will not understand or believe that. But! If you were to ask the same question from your spirit instead of your carnal mind, then the understanding would come and agreement.

Our spirit man is our new seed of God within ourselves. If we allow him to rise up above the soul and the flesh and bless or allow God to bless people through you like a flowing river of life then we have done our job.

spirit man: I am the righteousness of God, in Christ.
carnal man: I stumble every day sometimes. I sin and ask forgiveness.

Our new spirit from God came to us perfect instantly. But the soul and flesh body of mankind are so damaged by sin, that it does not get renewed instantly. It is a time consuming process we call sanctification.

So it's that guy that sins sometimes, my unperfected carnal self. But I don't identify with him, he is the old man. I rather identify with my spirit man because he is righteous before God and yes, he is sinless.

Thanks for the imput Edward.
This analogy of Spirit vs flesh was never presented in the claim I answered too.
Not that I totally agree with your claim either, but just as a point of accuracy .
Quite the opposite in the claim I addressed the flesh alone was featured character/star of the show!
There was no attempt made to paper over the boast of sinless flesh by identifying with or giving the Glory to the Spirit.
None:

: BTW, claiming is different than actually do it, so I must tell you that I actually do it. (Hopeful)

The claim that it is "I" as in ME. MYSELF, or I, am responsible for my sinless state is because , "I actually do it"
absent any mention of Spirit could not be more clear in giving the credit to the carnal flesh.

BTW, No "fierce debate" exists from my perspective.
I actually very much hate going over a brother's spiritual weaknesses so publicly in this regard more than it is absolutely necessary, but since you had addressed me directly about it specifically I felt compelled to make myself clear.
Which unfortunately was impossible to do save the appearance of piling on Hopeful, which I do not wish to do, and is not my intent.
Apologies to Hopeful for bringing it up again.

Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[Hopeful]

What can I reply to a person who never sins ?

How about..."What can I do to be like that?"

 

[Hopeful]

The reason this is debated so fiercely between people is that there is confusion, I'll explain.

When he says, I never sin now that I'm a believer, he is talking about his spirit man. When we're born again God gives us a new spirit. He is in direct contact with the Holy Spirit at all times. Our spirit always knows what is the best thing to do and our spirit also, never sins.

So when he says, I don't sin, of his spirit man...of course the carnal self will not understand or believe that. But! If you were to ask the same question from your spirit instead of your carnal mind, then the understanding would come and agreement.

Our spirit man is our new seed of God within ourselves. If we allow him to rise up above the soul and the flesh and bless or allow God to bless people through you like a flowing river of life then we have done our job.

spirit man: I am the righteousness of God, in Christ.
carnal man: I stumble every day sometimes. I sin and ask forgiveness.

Our new spirit from God came to us perfect instantly. But the soul and flesh body of mankind are so damaged by sin, that it does not get renewed instantly. It is a time consuming process we call sanctification.

So it's that guy that sins sometimes, my unperfected carnal self. But I don't identify with him, he is the old man. I rather identify with my spirit man because he is righteous before God and yes, he is sinless.

The "carnal man" was killed with Christ when it was baptized into Christ an into His death and burial.
From which we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
It is also written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Sin was in the old life, and is gone.

 

[Hopeful]

It's the same thing with the mind of Christ. They say, emulate Christ, be led by the Spirit, have the mind of Christ.

When the Spirit grants to you the mind of Christ, you don't really thing it's your carnal man who gets it, do you?! My spirit has the mind of Christ. We know this because the Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit and will teach us all truths. In Christ/Christ in me, HS constantly talking to our spirit, therefore, my spirit has the mind of Christ.

Right? :yes

You proffer a schizophrenic-Christian doctrine: one where the man has two disparate personalities.
The bible calls it double mindedness.
Your doctrine makes a mess out of being born again and of being a new creature.

 

[Hopeful]

Thanks for the imput Edward.
This analogy of Spirit vs flesh was never presented in the claim I answered too.
Not that I totally agree with your claim either, but just as a point of accuracy .
Quite the opposite in the claim I addressed the flesh alone was featured character/star of the show!
There was no attempt made to paper over the boast of sinless flesh by identifying with or giving the Glory to the Spirit.
None:

: BTW, claiming is different than actually do it, so I must tell you that I actually do it. (Hopeful)

The claim that it is "I" as in ME. MYSELF, or I, am responsible for my sinless state is because , "I actually do it"
absent any mention of Spirit could not be more clear in giving the credit to the carnal flesh.

BTW, No "fierce debate" exists from my perspective.
I actually very much hate going over a brother's spiritual weaknesses so publicly in this regard more than it is absolutely necessary, but since you had addressed me directly about it specifically I felt compelled to make myself clear.
Which unfortunately was impossible to do save the appearance of piling on Hopeful, which I do not wish to do, and is not my intent.
Apologies to Hopeful for bringing it up again.

Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

You are not alone in your defense of the unholy.
Thanks be to God for equipping me with the tools of the righteous.

 

[Edward]

You proffer a schizophrenic-Christian doctrine: one where the man has two disparate personalities.
The bible calls it double mindedness.
Your doctrine makes a mess out of being born again and of being a new creature.

Only because you don't understand it.

 

[D-D-W]

Who of the OT had been reborn of God's seed after the death of their "flesh"? (1 John 3:9, Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24)

Since that was not a phrase used in the Hebrew scriptures, it is not possible to say.

Question: who in the OT times read 1 John, Romans or Galatians?

 

[Hopeful]

Only because you don't understand it.

The holy seldom understand the unholy.
To say one submits to God and still disobeys Him, is an invitation to disaster.

 

[Hopeful]

Since that was not a phrase used in the Hebrew scriptures, it is not possible to say.

Question: who in the OT times read 1 John, Romans or Galatians?

None of them.
They tried to achieve righteousness by the Law, but the Law just showed them how bad they really were.
The NT's rebirth from God's seed was the difference maker.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Joe 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This day of both physical & Spiritual Deliverance from out of actual Jerusalem on earth has not happened yet.
Notice that Day of the Lord's Deliverance makes no mention of the already saved Gentiles .
The apostles were tasked by Jesus to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles .
God has never sub-contracted the final reconciliation of the nation Israel to anyone else, and He has reserved the right in His Word to deal with them the same way He has since He first called out Abraham, PERSONALLY!

Gen 12:7
And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

This Deliverance is being issued from the epicenter of the Day of the Lord , Mount Zion .
It deals specifically with the remnant of the nation Israel who will call upon the Name of Jesus Christ.
And by definition of the word " remnant ", the mere fact of being Jewish affords them no merit with God whatsoever.
They are saved , or lost, on the basis as all who have ever been saved .

 

[Anaphora]

1.) The "church" is not a location .
2.) And even though we are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit , what we are now cannot compare to what we will be in heaven.

On earth as in heaven being the key to this thread.

" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heave​

1.) The "church" is not a location .
2.) And even though we are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit , what we are now cannot compare to what we will be in heaven.

On earth as in heaven being the key to this thread.

" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven"​

Psalm 25:14. The secret of the Lord is with them fear Him; And He will shew then His covenant. This is secret counsel that Jesus shares with His Election. Majority of people are not to know mystery of God. Many people have spirtual blinders on. John 1718. As thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 17:19. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. HUPER in Greek means = on behalf of. This talking about God's Elect, they are set apart for God. You don't have to be rocket scientist to understand this. I'm not talking down to anyone or judging anyone. John 16:13. How be it when he, the spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth; The majority of people have spirit of slumber. The position for Election can't be volunteered for. The election were judged and chosen in the first earth age. Were in the second earth age, flesh. 15:15. Hence forth I call you not servants; for the servant knows not what his Lord does; but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known to you. PARA in Greek means = have made known. Those with spirit of stupor don't understand meat of God's word. Jesus is addressing His Election. The elect understand the mystery of God. 16:16. Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain ; TITHEMI in Greek means = Ordained. The fruit Jesus expects is planting seeds, sound doctrine, sharing God's truth. What's real sad is, denominations lie to people, and indoctrination traditions of men, false doctrine into congregation's minds. Their programmed from early age. Their brainwashed, and out of ignorance will defend their traditions to the death. First Peter 1:2. ELECT, ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD THE FATHER, THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT, UNTO OBEDIENCE AND SPRINKLING OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST: I documented this and gave it in the Greek language. God's Election have destiny, and purpose to carry out God's will. The majority will not get the holy spirit. God chose His election, and the position isn't up for volunteered service. The mystery of God is hidden from many people. They have spirit of stupor. Revelation chapter 20, the spirituality dead will have full understanding in their spiritual body, during the millennium, 1,000 years of teaching and discipline. The millennium is time of teaching and learning for the spirtualty dead. Jesus will reign as King of kings, and the Election are priests and judges throughout the millennium. Documentation, Ezekiel chapter 44 and revelation chapter 20. And only Godhead knows that hour the 6th trump will sound, when satan comes as antichrist. We are to look at bible prophecy align with current events and Signs. Jesus returns 7th trump.