" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven", How Do Non-Futurists Deal With This?

[ezrider]

Are you saying it was just a select group of people who witnessed His coming as, " .. lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. " ?

Every day, without fail, the light rises in the east and shines unto the west!


John 14:15-21
If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He, being Christ appears the SECOND TIME, without SIN unto SALVATION. What does that mean?




Let that sink in a bit. When Christ appears the second time it is without sin unto salvation, but only to those who look for his coming. Not the rest of the world. But many have yet to find salvation, they are too busy with a book in their hand judging the sins of the world, and are not looking for the return of Christ, without sin unto salvation, but instead they look for and wait upon the return of Christ in Judgement. Many I find spend their hours consumed looking for the Antichrist. If they are looking for the Antichrist, then they are not looking for the return of Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

If me or you say we never sin we make Jesus a liar .
All sin except the sinless lamb of God.

You are saying those reborn of God's seed commit sin.
How can that be true?
It would be like a grape seed bringing forth an apple tree.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Every day, without fail, the light rises in the east and shines unto the west!

When Christ appears the second time it is without sin unto salvation, but only to those who look for his coming. Not the rest of the world.

And God causes the sun to shine on all .
The saved and the unsaved.
The Lord also says the rain from the sky falls the same way, on the just and the unjust.
Jesus intent was no less comprehensive when he said , the lightening flashing from east to west is hidden from no one.
For me I'll take the Word of Christ for it .
Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You are saying those reborn of God's seed commit sin.
How can that be true?
It would be like a grape seed bringing forth an apple tree.

Can you name someone who claims they no longer sin ?
You have a few billion to chose from .
I only want to hear one name ?

 

[Hopeful]

Can you name someone who claims they no longer sin ?
You have a few billion to chose from .
I only want to hear one name ?

Me, and the rest of the "Church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".
BTW, claiming is different than actually do it, so I must tell you that I actually do it.

 

[ezrider]

And God causes the sun to shine on all .
The saved and the unsaved.
The Lord also says the rain from the sky falls the same way, on the just and the unjust.
Jesus intent was no less comprehensive when he said , the lightening flashing from east to west is hidden from no one.
For me I'll take the Word of Christ for it .
Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I see you had no interest in addressing the rest of the post that dealt with His second coming. So be it.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Me, and the rest of the "Church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".
BTW, claiming is different than actually do it, so I must tell you that I actually do it.

I knew it would be to much for you to resist .
Giving you the chance, or in your case it may be more accurate to say because of giving you the chance. to shine the never do I sin limelight on anybody but yourself you could not stand the thought of anybody but yourself taking top honors.
So with your own mouth you gave yourself the honors.
Congratulations, you have just sinned .
And you went big I might add.
The sin that God has even singled out among the others that He has a special contempt for , Pride !




Pro 16:5
Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD

Psa 59:12
For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So when are you saying He has already come in judgement ?

The question assumes He only judges once. It sounds like it’s either past or future, but not both. It’s like asking if the Supreme has already come into the court and rendered judgement. The answer is yes, of course, but they will in the future too. The Judge of all the earth has judged, is judging and will judge.

I can understand why you ask as there are all kinds of very strange theologies out there.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I knew it would be to much for you to resist .
Giving you the chance, or in your case it may be more accurate to say because of giving you the chance. to shine the never do I sin limelight on anybody but yourself you could not stand the thought of anybody but yourself taking top honors.
So with your own mouth you gave yourself the honors.
Congratulations, you have just sinned .
And you went big I might add.
The sin that God has even singled out among the others that He has a special contempt for , Pride !




Pro 16:5
Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD

Psa 59:12
For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak.

When I deal with people who claim to be sinless in their own eyes, I ask them if others who live and work with them also say that they are completely sinless and like Jesus in thought, word and deed. You see, they render themselves sinless on a technicality like “claiming it makes it so” or some Bible verse can be twisted to support that. So they deceive themselves, but others aren’t so deceived and expect actual choices that always and without fail, reflect the love, kindness, and generosity of God himself if one is sinless. So that is the question to ask.

Otherwise it’s pretty clear someone without sin walks closely with God and their posts would reflect that. The poster you address does not measure up to that standard, needless to say. There are a few of these kind around. They are in for a very unpleasant awakening.

 

[eddif]

The fact that you believe Jesus Christ has already returned post-accension , in the manner of " .. lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. "
And yet there is not even one independent historical written account of what He said would be His Glorious appearing that you are able to cite is incomprehensible to me.
Are you saying it was just a select group of people who witnessed His coming as, " .. lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. " ?
Do know of somebody , anybody, of well known Christian, Academic, Historical reputation that has ever said such a thing?
I have never heard of anybody ?
I would love to read their take on this , could you name one please?
Thanks .

That sounds scriptural. If we read scripture.
Like;
Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

A quiet personal appearance of Christ in us happens. The glorious day is in the future.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Are you telling me you can't tell if a murderer was part of God's kingdom or not?
If it was "hard to tell" you should get a better grasp of God's ability to keep the light from the darkness.

You are pulling the shades down over your eyes.

Bu the devil will never succeed.
Just because you were "around" the devil's disciples, doesn't men you were a part of their domain.

This may be the place to insert what Consecrated Life is saying.

Hopeful you mention (a part of Satan’s domain).
Satan’s domain is when the dominion of sin is constant (as a serial killer),

To kill a person is a sin. To be a serial killer is a continuous lifestyle.

How many times do we forgive a brother who sins against us, if he repents? 70 times 7?

To sin is terrible, but may not be unbroken constant sinning (under the dominion/rule of sin.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Endtimesdeut32]

The lord's prayer was initially given to his disciples when they asked him to teach them to pray. It is best first hermeneutically interpreted from the first century setting of the disciples. Jesus was teaching them to have a attitude of welcoming the kingdom of heaven in their live. John had told them to repent (from rituals and dead works of Moses (heb 6- 8)) for the kingdom of heaven was then at hand through Jesus.

Jesus also said that the kingdom comes not with observation but is within.

John stated that the law came by Moses, but grace and truth by Christ Jesus.

When the disciples asked if he would at this time restore the kingdom to Israel, they were asking based on a old testament prophecy about restoring a kingdom like Israel the man knew. It was prophesied that it would be restored to a remnant which remnant they were.

What did the words times and seasons mean to them?

The times and seasons were synonyms for the feasts and festivals which the Israelites were commanded to observe and which commemorated the events and activities experienced by the Israelites in the 40 yrs from Passover to crossing Jordan under joshua.

The replacement or fulfilling of these times and seasons by the children of the new covt would be known as seasons of refreshing as the celebrations continued around them without their faith in them or participation in the sacrifices. To repatriate to the sacrifices was unrepentables and was trampling the blood of the covt and of Jesus under foot.
Jesus was telling the disciples generally that it was not for them, (except at least john ) to experience all the full times and seasons which the father had fore-established through the 40 yrs fore pattern of the Israelites wanderings under Moses. Thus the time of the restoration to the remnant of sons of God would coincide with the groups recrossing Jordan as they fled primarily to Pella and the decapolis mountains east of the jordan, as they had been instructed by Jesus in the olivet.

Jesus has also told the Jews that the kingdom would be taken from them and given to those bearing it's fruits of gal 5:22.

This time at the end of the 40 yrs also coincides with and was foretold by Daniel in chapter 7 as the time for the saints to possess the kingdom.

 

[Endtimesdeut32]

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

iN context, the writer is teaching how Christ came fulfilling the sacrifice (first typed by Abel) foretyped by the yearly sacrifice of the priests (,vs11-14). See also 10:1-4?

But in Deut 32 and Isaiah 59 it prophecies that at the time of the crushing of the accuser (Is 59:5) by "our rock" (Deut 32) and after receiving a new heart (Deut 30:6-14;Rom 10:6-8) by the authority of a new prophet, (Deut 18:15-19) that there would come a persecution against those who repented from the ordinances of sacrifie in Moses and believed in the new prophet.

Deut 32:42 ( read in NKJV and lxx)and Isaiah 59:15ff express that he would come with deliverance and salvation to those who had made themselves a prey for his name and against those who were provoking his son's and daughters (Deut 32)

Deut 32:42 expressed how he would come as does Dan 9:26.

see also Is 66:5 I think it is. Those who cast them out and killed them were saying ket the lord be glorified, but he will appear to their joy, yet they would be ashamed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

And God causes the sun to shine on all .
The saved and the unsaved.
The Lord also says the rain from the sky falls the same way, on the just and the unjust.
Jesus intent was no less comprehensive when he said , the lightening flashing from east to west is hidden from no one.
For me I'll take the Word of Christ for it .
Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:27 IN CONTEXT was telling them not to be fooled by those coming claiming to be the Christ. Now it is not clear if the above is the “coming in the clouds” of judgement where those who pierced him would see as they were still alive or the second coming the angel described as being just like his leaving. Clearly his leaving was supernatural but the whole world didn’t see it. It’s a particular eschatology that wants this bit to be in reference to a glorious entourage with horses and swords drawn coming, a violent take over. It wasn’t in reference to that event.

 

[eddif]

To repatriate to the sacrifices was unrepentables and was trampling the blood of the covt and of Jesus under foot.

You did pretty good.

To use the law lawfully is the goal.
Jesus as the first fruit of the grave.
The slain lamb

The gentiles, being without the law of Moses, do the same spiritual realities the law was a shadow for.

Concepts can cross many context areas.
The oxen eating while treading out corn:
Oxen
Teaching elders (?)
Plowmen
Harvesters
etc.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[D-D-W]

You are saying those reborn of God's seed commit sin.
How can that be true?

By having a more realistic definition of "sin."

 

[D-D-W]

Are you telling me you can't tell if a murderer was part of God's kingdom or not?
If it was "hard to tell" you should get a better grasp of God's ability to keep the light from the darkness.

When was the last time you read and took a long hard look at what the text says in Isaiah?

 

[Consecrated Life]

The lord's prayer was initially given to his disciples when they asked him to teach them to pray. It is best first hermeneutically interpreted from the first century setting of the disciples. Jesus was teaching them to have a attitude of welcoming the kingdom of heaven in their live. John had told them to repent (from rituals and dead works of Moses (heb 6- 8)) for the kingdom of heaven was then at hand through Jesus.

I sense you are implying here that John's understanding was that the " Kingdom of Heaven at hand " was linked to them being "Baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost ." ?
The Kingdom of Heaven being a Co-dependent personal individual reality in direct connection to the individual personally receiving " the Kingdom of heaven in their lives" thru the Baptism by fire & the Holy ghost.

For me, John did not mean that .
He meant two distinctly unrelated events.
He was absolutely correct in naming them both as real coming events.
His mistake was the same one the disciples made in their obvious eager questioning of Jesus with regard to how soon it happen.
Very understandable that John's mistake regarding the coming Kingdom of heaven was the same one made by the disciples .
The same eager anticipation led to his timing regarding the Kingdom on Earth being way off just as it did the disciples.
With the long awaited Holy One of God now in your very presence, what Jew would not be chomping at the bit for everything to be fulfilled in rapid fire succession ?
God's old axiom about 1 day = 1000 years with the Lord would have served both John and the disciples well to consider before they tried to attach a specific time period to the prophesized Truth of the Coming Kingdom.
And in John's case we can know that he began to realize he had spoke to soon in this regard when he begins to
question the full purpose of Jesus.

Luk 7:19
And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

Luk 7:20
When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

 

[Hopeful]

I knew it would be to much for you to resist .

Resist?
My testimony gives glory to God and proof of the efficacy of the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It is the result of rebirth from God's perfect seed.

Giving you the chance, or in your case it may be more accurate to say because of giving you the chance. to shine the never do I sin limelight on anybody but yourself you could not stand the thought of anybody but yourself taking top honors.

Limelight?
Nah, but it does illustrate "walking in the light", to the glory of God.
BTW, I did mention the rest of the church, though nobody really knows what anyone but themselves are thinking.

So with your own mouth you gave yourself the honors.

The honor is God's and the name of Jesus Christ, in whom I have been baptized.

Congratulations, you have just sinned .
And you went big I might add.
The sin that God has even singled out among the others that He has a special contempt for , Pride !

Again, the rest of the "Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)" also lives perfectly sinless lives, like God wants and equipt us for.

Pro 16:5
Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD
Psa 59:12
For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak.

Do you have a reason you have not repented of sin?

 

[Hopeful]

When I deal with people who claim to be sinless in their own eyes, I ask them if others who live and work with them also say that they are completely sinless and like Jesus in thought, word and deed. You see, they render themselves sinless on a technicality like “claiming it makes it so” or some Bible verse can be twisted to support that. So they deceive themselves, but others aren’t so deceived and expect actual choices that always and without fail, reflect the love, kindness, and generosity of God himself if one is sinless. So that is the question to ask.

Otherwise it’s pretty clear someone without sin walks closely with God and their posts would reflect that. The poster you address does not measure up to that standard, needless to say. There are a few of these kind around. They are in for a very unpleasant awakening.

Do you have any examples of the behavior of pure men?
Those who have actually repented of sin and been reborn of Gods seed?
It seems you have something to base your remarks on, so why not share then with us?

Or has nobody repented and been reborn?