journeyman
Member
I think as we walk with our Savior, we display on earth what it's like in heaven, until our final tranformation occurs. We are currently being changed into his image along with all the other believers.
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" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven", How Do Non-Futurists Deal With This?
- Thread starter Consecrated Life
- Start date
journeyman
Member
It has been growing for a long time,
For the kingdom of God is...righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Rom.14:17
ezrider
Member
Dorothy Mae
When Jesus said it is not for them to know the times and season, he was reminding them what is written in the law. Recall also that Jesus said to take no thought for tomorrow...
Deuteronomy 18:10-14
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
If what you say is true , again I ask why is Jesus leading them on and telling them that the time it will happen is not for them to know , which if it was never to happen as you contend, would be a lie told by Jesus.
Act 1:7
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons
When Jesus said it is not for them to know the times and season, he was reminding them what is written in the law. Recall also that Jesus said to take no thought for tomorrow...
Deuteronomy 18:10-14
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
Consecrated Life
Member
If what the disciples & Jesus were discussing had been fulfilled on earth post-resurrection why were the disciples still asking Jesus about when it was coming to earth ?
And even more telling why did Jesus answer them in the affirmative, but they would not know the time ?
Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons
You think maybe it is possible that what the disciples and Jesus are discussing here & what you are saying has already been fulfilled are two different things ?
Consecrated Life
Member
Then name me a converted part of the world where the justice exists 100% , as it is in Heaven ?
There is not a one.
Iconoclast
Member
Thy Kingdom comes as the gospel continues to spread worldwide
Consecrated Life
Member
What makes you think His will has been finished on earth and we now exist where justice exists 100% as it does .."in heaven.
The mass murders perhaps :
Mass Shooting in California - The New York Times ?
Or is heaven more like Atlanta burning & looted by enraged nighttime mobs:Antifa Rioters Rampage Through Atlanta, Torch Police Vehicle ?
You really equate this to what the disciples spoke to Christ of in His return & and Christ answered them affirmatively , but they would not know the time .Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons
Consecrated Life
Member
Name one location in the world, where the kingdom now exists " as in heaven " ?
Iconoclast
Member
In the church
Consecrated Life
Member
We agree then, Jesus answered in the affirm & said it was not for them to know the time the kingdom would come.
Repeatedly .
Mat 24:3
.... the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Consecrated Life
Member
1.) The "church" is not a location .
2.) And even though we are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit , what we are now cannot compare to what we will be in heaven.
On earth as in heaven being the key to this thread.
" Thy Kingdom Come...In Earth As It Is In Heaven"
journeyman
Member
I'm sorry my friend, as I didn't mean to give the impression that his will is "finished" on earthas it is in heaven. I sometimes phrase things that can be construed the wrong way.
It's of the utmost importance to me that you understand, the gospel shows us Gods' "justice" isn't being done on earth, because it it was, I would have been convicted and executed.
The shame our Lord was put through gives meaning that passes understanding to the words,
I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Mt.5:44-45
Under the mosaic law, the penalty for conspiring to put an innocent man to death
is the death of the conspirators.
Had our gentle King enforced the law against those men, they would have been executed, but he blotted
out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col.2:14
People can only see the kingdom coming if they're born again. That's when the change begins.
Iconoclast
Member
The church is the assembly of Kingdom members, as it assembles under the kingly rule of Jesus Christ.
He is ruling and reigning as we speak, from Heaven, right now;
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
The apostles were thinking of an earthly kingdom. and not of the one in our hearts.
Agreed.
The disciples thought physical kingdom, while Jesus prayed for the Spiritual kingdom.
Right here in my house is one.
Another spot is in Ghana.
Everywhere the Lord reigns, justice prevails.
Isn't that "our" mind too now that we have been separated from the this "world" and sin?
Yes.
I should have just said read most of Philippians 2 from the beginning.
Also there are changes to take place at the last trump. We are not yet what we shall be.
The flesh still exists. The wretched man regretfully still exists. Sin does not have dominion over us though.
We are in Christ, and Christ is in us. We should be passionate about who we are through Jesus. Not luke warm because we are not perfect.
eddif
Consecrated Life
Member
All you say exists at the time Jesus tells the disciples the events that will happen before His coming .
Church members assembling in His name then will stop none of these events or His return, & church members assembling now will not stop these events or His return.
But don't take my word for it. the Lord has spoke it :
Mat 24:3
... the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.