Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Time And Chance ?

May I present the other side of the coin?

The man's relationship was close to Jesus, so close that He wanted him to be with Him, ...we look at this from our side of Eternity, I'm certain everyone that has crossed over are not complaing about the way it happened, it doesn't matter if one of His children passes on in their sleep or in some brutal manner,

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. Psa 116:15

Jesus is there when it happens,

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Cor 5:8

.
 
God allowed the saints to be thrown to the lions under Nero's rule and others, he also allowed the saints to be lit as candles along walkways as Nero walked along them entertaining guest and foreign dignitaries. Better yet let me show you this, this has bugged me for years how they died because I know it was horrible going through it. So why would God allow these Biblical men the 12 disciples to die like this, when they were spreading Jesus to the world ? but if I can remember right John escaped, to the island of Patmos.
Terrible Deaths of The 12 Disciples of Jesus Christ And What it Means to be Christian.

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/3714...esus-christ-and-what-it-means-to-be-christian
 
If you ever seen God heal someone or protect them and I am sure you have, then it's a hard thing to say God "Allows" it's like it's sort of saying God causes. So many scriptures tell us he protects us and heals us.
I still don't have that Lamborghini physically sitting my my drive way, though I have asked many years ago and it will come to pass.
Lots of things we ask need patience. Faith and patience inherit the promises. I don't like the Word patience, but it's in scriptures.
I hope I did not come across as sin being the cause of all things bad, though it's through the curse of the law these things are on the earth caused by sin.
I want you to examine those scriptures with a bit of consideration.

Joh 11:4 kjva When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

God is not getting glory for someone being sick, but for being delivered. It's not saying God planned the sickness to get some twisted glory, but that He would get glory from it.
If God wants to give himself glory, Him and I can go visit a cancer ward somehere and clean it out.

Joh 9:1-3 kjva 1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So, the context is that the works of God must be manifested. God was not planning sickness in folks then Jesus following behind to play catch up to show how Great God is. that does not even sound good. The Kingdoms are not divided, but God gets the glory for all healing done, Not because a bunch of folks is sick.

Peter:

Now it appears Peter did no wrong.

Luk 22:31-33 kjva 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. 33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

Jesus sees the enemy wanting to get ahold of Peter, Jesus warns Peter, Then Jesus said I will pray that your faith not fail.

That should have been all Peter said, the Lord said, Satan is trying to get you. What Peter say next? I am ready to go with thee to prison and death.

As soon as Peter said that Jesus then said..........

Luk 22:34 kjva And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.


Mat 26:31-33 kjva 31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.

Now Deborah. It don't take a rocket scientist to see what Peter did wrong here. Jesus Said, the Lord of Lords, that ALL YE SHALL BE OFFENDED AT ME!

The Lord is telling them something here, and if Jesus said it then it's so. Peter on the other hand said your Wrong Jesus, I, I, I, I, I, I Will never be offended.................. ME, I Peter am all that and a bag of chips, the spiritual gift to the World, Me Peter! Your Wrong about Me Jesus. The Rest of these unfaithful wretches you let hang with us might, but not Me, the Mighty Peter!!

Peter after being much more mature wrote about this.

1Pe 5:1-5 kjva 1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

1Pe 5:6-8 kjva 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Telling Jesus that He is Wrong and He can handle this is not the way to get grace and help. Peter writes about it here and explains to us What not to do.

Submit yourselves to the elder, submit to God and humble yourself.
Mike, I not saying that Peter didn't think he had a stronger faith than he did. What I am saying is that satan was going to sift him. I don't believe that if Peter hadn't said those words he wouldn't have been sifted. There was a purpose for him being sifted. He needed to have more faith than he did and sometimes that only comes through adversity.
Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
 
God allowed the saints to be thrown to the lions under Nero's rule and others, he also allowed the saints to be lit as candles along walkways as Nero walked along them entertaining guest and foreign dignitaries. Better yet let me show you this, this has bugged me for years how they died because I know it was horrible going through it. So why would God allow these Biblical men the 12 disciples to die like this, when they were spreading Jesus to the world ? but if I can remember right John escaped, to the island of Patmos.
Terrible Deaths of The 12 Disciples of Jesus Christ And What it Means to be Christian.

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/3714...esus-christ-and-what-it-means-to-be-christian

Have you seen this?

http://biblebelievers.com/foxes/findex.htm


reading.gif

.
 
Deborah, in both accounts Peter tells the Lord he is wrong.

Now let me ask you. If the Lord said he would pray that your Faith not fail, don't you think that nothing can change that if Peter just said, thank you Lord, for your help that I fail not.
It's when Peter full of pride thinking he's better than the rest. Opens his mouth, that Jesus said you will deny me 3 times.

You don't see the connection here?

He would have been fine had he just humbled himself and not told the Lord he was wrong.

The Lord says one thing to you, but you tell him he is wrong. How well is that going to work out for you?

Thank you for having the respect though in not assuming I don't have scripture to back what I say. It always a pleasure talking with you, but in this case I don't see it. If the Lord says this, you don't tell him that.

Even when the Lord said Peter eat. He said, not so Lord.
 

John was banned to the island, and zero scripture recording any of their deaths. All completed the plan of God, lived long. Now Paul did say it's time I offer myself up. It is written many choose not to be delivered to obtain a better resurrection. Always our choice, and God is faithful to deliver us from all the wicked. Not my words, his words.

edited reba
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Many outside sources has helped prove the Bible. Many of these ancient historians were recording events then just like they do today.
 
God can find something good in you and still take you away.


1 Kings 14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Ahijah Prophesies against the King

11 Anyone belonging to Jeroboam who dies in the city the dogs will eat. And he who dies in the field the birds of the heavens will eat; for the Lord has spoken it.”’ 12 Now you, arise, go to your house. When your feet enter the city the child will die. 13 All Israel shall mourn for him and bury him, for he alone of Jeroboam’s family will come to the grave, because in him something good was found toward the Lord God of Israel in the house of Jeroboam. 14 Moreover, the Lord will raise up for Himself a king over Israel who will cut off the house of Jeroboam this day and from now on.
 
God allowed the saints to be thrown to the lions under Nero's rule and others, he also allowed the saints to be lit as candles along walkways as Nero walked along them entertaining guest and foreign dignitaries. Better yet let me show you this, this has bugged me for years how they died because I know it was horrible going through it. So why would God allow these Biblical men the 12 disciples to die like this, when they were spreading Jesus to the world ? but if I can remember right John escaped, to the island of Patmos.

To build their faith, ...just like He will do in your life, ...if you give it to Him.

...the just shall live by his faith. Hab 2:4
 
To build their faith, ...just like He will do in your life, ...if you give it to Him.

...the just shall live by his faith. Hab 2:4
Yes they had faith that they would get to be with the Lord, but getting your head cut off and hung on a cross upside down and getting stoned or beaten to death or being pulled apart by all 4 limbs, was not some joyous occasions for the victims I can tell you that.
 

I am not ignoring you or trying to be rude. I already responded to that. The years of the wicked will be shortened.

Peter said the trying of your faith is much more precious than Gold.

We don't ADD GOD to those scriptures. We never add anything to scripture. It does not say God tries our faith it says the trying of our faith. It does not say God makes the years of the wicked Short.

Pro 1:31 kjva Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
Pro 1:32 kjva For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

All God has to do is stand back and watch. You reap what you sow. It's not God making their life short, it's them not obeying God that is making their life short due to their own devices.

Read the Word exactly as it's written, don't add God in there if He is not there. God is not mocked, whatever a man sows, he has to reap it. Bad or Good.

I have been teachig faith and trusting God for over 17 years. I was the Father years back that got the call from Chicago Memorial Hospital telling me my son would not possibly live until Morning. Terminal cancer and they could do nothing. His body was black and blue from all the blood vessles bursting and chemo was not touching it.

I was the Father that got that call Gary. God has failed nobody ever who belived on him. Not one time.

Two men.............. One took heed to the Word, the other did not. Both heard the same things. One man built his house on the rock, the other on the sand.
The flood came and hit both houses.
One house destroyed, the other the flood could not even shake it.

It matters what you take heed to and what you believe. It's not up to God, no more than it was up to God for the man to not listen and build his house on the sand, because the Flood sure don't care if you pay attention to God or not. It's coming to destory.
 
Deborah, in both accounts Peter tells the Lord he is wrong.

Now let me ask you. If the Lord said he would pray that your Faith not fail, don't you think that nothing can change that if Peter just said, thank you Lord, for your help that I fail not.
It's when Peter full of pride thinking he's better than the rest. Opens his mouth, that Jesus said you will deny me 3 times.

You don't see the connection here?

He would have been fine had he just humbled himself and not told the Lord he was wrong.

The Lord says one thing to you, but you tell him he is wrong. How well is that going to work out for you?

Thank you for having the respect though in not assuming I don't have scripture to back what I say. It always a pleasure talking with you, but in this case I don't see it. If the Lord says this, you don't tell him that.

Even when the Lord said Peter eat. He said, not so Lord.
Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said..."and when thou art converted"
 
Yes they had faith that they would get to be with the Lord, but getting your head cut off and hung on a cross upside down and getting stoned or beaten to death or being pulled apart by all 4 limbs, was not some joyous occasions for the victims I can tell you that.

Can you tell us that with confidence and surety?

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Rom 8:18

For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. 2 Co 1:5

And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. 2 Co 1:6

And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation. 2 Co 1:7

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Php 3:10

Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Col 1:24

But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 1Pe 4:13

Remember bro, Jesus is with His children when they are persecuted for His name's sake, ...we are closer to Him during our sufferings than we are during the times we are not, ...that's just the way our Lord is.

Of course no one says, "bring on the persecutions," it's when we are living Godly for Him that the world hates and since they can't strike God they strike us, ...a wise man sees danger and hides himself, but when persecutions come He will never leave us or forsake us, ...that is what the disciples/Apostles learned, like Stephen they counted it all joy, ...to be sawn in two, have their brains beaten out of their heads, crucified upside down on a cross, stoned to death (and Paul didn't even remember if he died or not), or boiled in oil, ...it's all about building our faith.
 
Karl wrote
Of course no one says, "bring on the persecutions," it's when we are living Godly for Him that the world hates and since they can't strike God they strike us, ...a wise man sees danger and hides himself, but when persecutions come He will never leave us or forsake us, ...that is what the disciples/Apostles learned, like Stephen they counted it all joy, ...to be sawn in two, have their brains beaten out of their heads, crucified upside down on a cross, stoned to death (and Paul didn't even remember if he died or not), or boiled in oil, ...it's all about building our faith.
So tell me Karl, have you gotten to the point in your walk, where you will count it all joy to be pulled completely apart by all 4 limbs or thrown in a kettle of boiling oil, please tell me, inquiring minds wants to know ?
 
Lewis, my dear brother, yes, if that is what my Lord has planned for me, do I look forward to it, of course not, but I have walked so many years in faith with Him that I know it will turn out for my good, we start out with faith the size of a mustard seed and we build on it, build it up, it's hard to explain to someone, but I so trust Him, ...He has taken such good care of me all these years, ...when the bad news comes we naturally rebel to it, why God, why me? ...but then His peace settles on us, the peace that goes beyond our understanding and we are cool, calm, ...at peace, walking hand in hand with Jesus towards the New Jerusalem, ...He will get me there.

May I suggest you read Foxes Book of Martyrs, they all were brutally killed, but didn't suffer, if my Lord stood with them to give them courage, then He will stand with me whatever He calls me to.
 
There is no chance.God is in control of everything on this earth.

Uh, I hate to rain on you brothers and sisters parade but this is not so. For one thing, if God was in absolute control of everything, there would be no free will. He has the power to take absolute control but He doesn't most of the time. He sees all that happens, and can turn any situation from bad to good if He likes, but He doesn't do this for the most part. For those who turn to Him perhaps, but not in every case, every time.

He wants us to have faith in Him and to turn to Him of our own volition. If God took control of everything on earth, then how could we reap what we sow? Anyone.

Need scripture, brothers and sisters? Okey dokey, here you go...:)

Ecclesiastes 9:11
11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all./(KJV)

There it is spelled out very plainly...
 
Back
Top