Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Time And Chance ?

If you ever seen God heal someone or protect them and I am sure you have, then it's a hard thing to say God "Allows" it's like it's sort of saying God causes. So many scriptures tell us he protects us and heals us.
I still don't have that Lamborghini physically sitting my my drive way, though I have asked many years ago and it will come to pass.
Lots of things we ask need patience. Faith and patience inherit the promises. I don't like the Word patience, but it's in scriptures.



I hope I did not come across as sin being the cause of all things bad, though it's through the curse of the law these things are on the earth caused by sin.

I want you to examine those scriptures with a bit of consideration.

Joh 11:4 kjva When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

God is not getting glory for someone being sick, but for being delivered. It's not saying God planned the sickness to get some twisted glory, but that He would get glory from it.
If God wants to give himself glory, Him and I can go visit a cancer ward somehere and clean it out.

Joh 9:1-3 kjva 1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So, the context is that the works of God must be manifested. God was not planning sickness in folks then Jesus following behind to play catch up to show how Great God is. that does not even sound good. The Kingdoms are not divided, but God gets the glory for all healing done, Not because a bunch of folks is sick.

Peter:

Now it appears Peter did no wrong.

Luk 22:31-33 kjva 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. 33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

Jesus sees the enemy wanting to get ahold of Peter, Jesus warns Peter, Then Jesus said I will pray that your faith not fail.

That should have been all Peter said, the Lord said, Satan is trying to get you. What Peter say next? I am ready to go with thee to prison and death.

As soon as Peter said that Jesus then said..........

Luk 22:34 kjva And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.


Mat 26:31-33 kjva 31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.

Now Deborah. It don't take a rocket scientist to see what Peter did wrong here. Jesus Said, the Lord of Lords, that ALL YE SHALL BE OFFENDED AT ME!

The Lord is telling them something here, and if Jesus said it then it's so. Peter on the other hand said your Wrong Jesus, I, I, I, I, I, I Will never be offended.................. ME, I Peter am all that and a bag of chips, the spiritual gift to the World, Me Peter! Your Wrong about Me Jesus. The Rest of these unfaithful wretches you let hang with us might, but not Me, the Mighty Peter!!

Peter after being much more mature wrote about this.

1Pe 5:1-5 kjva 1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

1Pe 5:6-8 kjva 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Telling Jesus that He is Wrong and He can handle this is not the way to get grace and help. Peter writes about it here and explains to us What not to do.

Submit yourselves to the elder, submit to God and humble yourself.

god allows. he can stop us if he so choices,see the account of the prophet called ballam, yes he was a prophet and fell away but god used him to bless isreal and used an angel and a donkey to change his mind.

cure anyone of alzheimers and dementia? if so then I would like to see those Christians on this forum with full memory restored? is it possible for god to do that? yes but does he all the time?

sir , when you all pray for my routes, funny how easy I find things and how fast I go.yesterdays route was done the fastest I have ever done it. fixing cars?pray and its shown to me, I might not always get the issue right then and there but its fixed when he works it out.

so yes god does things but that doesn't mean he will do it all the time. notice the word submission there. sometimes god says no. I didn't want to become a meter reader, I wanted to remain a mechanics helper. I did , If I recall pray that not to occur. god saw otherwise.
 
So when ISIS cuts the head off of someone, it's really not ISIS, but God controlling the hand that holds the knife?

Is that what you believe?
.
No I am saying that. Since Adam and Eve there has been sin that has plagued our world.Bad things happen.But God has a plan in all of it.Did God tell ISIS to cut off their heads....I don't think so.But then Satan enters in.
 
Paul did turn someone over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh though. Not God's best, but the man was in sin and Paul said that he may repent before death that his spirit be saved.
1 Cor 5:5~~English Standard Version
you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord
New American Standard Bible
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
King James Bible
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Exactly where does Paul say," That he may repent before death that his spirit be saved."

God is not taking anyone out early, nor does he kill. He sent his Word and healed us and delivered us from destruction.
1 Samuel 2:6 (NASB95)
6 “The Lord kills and makes alive;

He brings down to Sheol and raises up.
 
No I am saying that. Since Adam and Eve there has been sin that has plagued our world.Bad things happen.But God has a plan in all of it.Did God tell ISIS to cut off their heads....I don't think so.But then Satan enters in.

Ok.
.
 
OH MY...you agree?No questions?
troll.gif
 
People used by God to heal others, also need to walk in the same thing the anointing teaches from them. I know, I pastored a church and things just come out from the Holy Spirit you tell others, but come to find you don't find it a reality yourself.
What is your definition of the anointing?
 
.
Can't be the will and authority of God that little Jimmy gets hit and killed on his big wheel at the ripe old age of 5 and miss all that God has called him to do. Can't be.
Who are we to say something like this? Maybe little Jimmy was headed towards cancer and a slow horrible death and God rescued him from that torture. Maybe Little Jimmy would have been deceived into never believing the Gospel and the Lord rescued Him before accountability.
 
1 Cor 5:5~~English Standard Version
you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord
New American Standard Bible
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
King James Bible
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Exactly where does Paul say," That he may repent before death that his spirit be saved."


1 Samuel 2:6 (NASB95)
6 “The Lord kills and makes alive;

He brings down to Sheol and raises up.

Amp brings it out pretty good.

1Co 11:30-32 amp 30 That [careless and unworthy participation] is the reason many of you are weak and sickly, and quite enough of you have fallen into the sleep of death. 31 For if we searchingly examined ourselves [detecting our shortcomings and recognizing our own condition], we should not be judged and penalty decreed [by the divine judgment]. 32 But when we [fall short and] are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined and chastened, so that we may not [finally] be condemned [to eternal punishment along] with the world.

Paul turned one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. To eventually kill him. The Hope is that being in such a state, one repents (This case for having sex with his father's wife) that his spirit may be saved at least. The lord will pull out all stops to ensure we are not lost with the rest of the World.

Above, many died already. If we don't judge ourselves and get in line the Lord will have to judge giving a place to the enemy. It results in physical death, but the hope is we will not be condemned with the rest of the World and repent.

In Pauls case the man did repent after Satan tore him apart, and Paul said recieve such a one that He not have overmuch sorrow.

When the Lord correct us in instruction such as mentioned in Romans we need to get it fixed right away.

If you believe in OSAS, then man does what he wants and the Lord does not have to correct because he is saved despite scripture. Paul took actions and gave the man over to Satan.

What is your definition of the anointing?

Not sure what this is asking. The anointing has always been used to empower flesh past it's own ability. As believers we carry different levels of anointing (Power from the Holy Spirit) It's the anointing that destorys yokes.
When you pray in tongues, you should dectect higher levels of anointing on you at times.
 
god allows. he can stop us if he so choices,see the account of the prophet called ballam, yes he was a prophet and fell away but god used him to bless isreal and used an angel and a donkey to change his mind.

cure anyone of alzheimers and dementia? if so then I would like to see those Christians on this forum with full memory restored? is it possible for god to do that? yes but does he all the time?

sir , when you all pray for my routes, funny how easy I find things and how fast I go.yesterdays route was done the fastest I have ever done it. fixing cars?pray and its shown to me, I might not always get the issue right then and there but its fixed when he works it out.

so yes god does things but that doesn't mean he will do it all the time. notice the word submission there. sometimes god says no. I didn't want to become a meter reader, I wanted to remain a mechanics helper. I did , If I recall pray that not to occur. god saw otherwise.

OK, as I suspected, God shows you and helps in even the simple things. God never says no when you ask for help though.
What it always is when the answer is not apparnt is A) You alread know but don't want to take that action. B) You need more revelation to get the answer which takes time.

I mean if you asked God to help you fix your engine, and the answer is march around the car 7 times, it' will be hard for that to just occur to you until you know other things.

When we ask for Wisdom, scripture says God gives it to all men, nothing held back. So it's not that the answer is no. It's the Wisdom we need is a bit above what we can understand until God shows us other things.

God's Wisdom goes beyond our limited understanding, so at times it might take God a bit to drill it across to us.

The subbmission part is that Jesus said without me you can do NOTHING. Jason, it's when I don't ask, and think something simple is simple. That is when I have the most issues. Even looking back Jason at the times we asked and things seemed real hard anyway, we have to ask, since we don't always hear perfectly, how would it ended up if we never asked?
 
I would like an answer to that as well.

(Edited, ToS 2.4, offering unwelcome spiritual advice. Obadiah)

I am also supprised nobody brought up Job yet. Traditions tell us God sent a crazed Disobedient Killer to murder a mans children that obeyed him. I mean God causes it to rain on the just and unjust, so.................................

(Edited, ToS 2.4, trolling. Obadiah) He kills, makes alive. His angels destroyed whole armies in the OT. If you stay on his good side though............ God does not treat his own wrong................ Except for Job of course. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
(Removed. Response to deleted post. Obadiah)

I am WOF, but I have done my best through the years to stick with Scripture only. Also comparing line upon line, that all scripture must match as God's Word is perfect.

I have three things as Doctrines.

God is extremely good.

Man is responsible for what He believes and what we believe and speak is very important. I am against no fault reliegion.

It's never God's fault.

That is my doctrine by which I read the Word. I don't use Trinity, OSAS, Election, Foreknowledge, Serpent seed, or any other thing to understand scriptures.

I always need every single scripture to match every other scripture (Isa 28)

God caused David to number the troops.
Satan caused David to number the troops.

Two scriptures in two differrent books. My postion is that they both must be correct. Some believe God's Word contains contradictions, I do not.

So, when someone post that God decides who makes it and who don't. I post what Jesus said that all things are possible to him that believe.

What happens if you don't believe? You get the same result or is it all up to God?

Those are the questions I ask in light of all the other scriptures. Everything must match.

Be blessed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We have Baptist on here that speak in tongues, The Baptist Pastor down the street just was filled with the Holy Spirit and now speaks in tongues. He does not tell anyone.

It's not a WOF thing, heck there are lots of folks that go to my church that do not speak in tongues. Your best bet is to find one of those Old Fashioned Pentecoastal churches.

I am WOF, but I have done my best through the years to stick with Scripture only. Also comparing line upon line, that all scripture must match as God's Word is perfect.

I have three things as Doctrines.

God is extremely good.

Man is responsible for what He believes and what we believe and speak is very important. I am against no fault reliegion.

It's never God's fault.

That is my doctrine by which I read the Word. I don't use Trinity, OSAS, Election, Foreknowledge, Serpent seed, or any other thing to understand scriptures.

I always need every single scripture to match every other scripture (Isa 28)

God caused David to number the troops.
Satan caused David to number the troops.

Two scriptures in two differrent books. My postion is that they both must be correct. Some believe God's Word contains contradictions, I do not.

So, when someone post that God decides who makes it and who don't. I post what Jesus said that all things are possible to him that believe.

What happens if you don't believe? You get the same result or is it all up to God?

Those are the questions I ask in light of all the other scriptures. Everything must match.

Be blessed.
Baptists and tongues?.....:thinking
 
Just a little discernment for some folks. Make up your own minds.
New American Standard Bible 1 cor 12:30
All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?




This is what I think the anointing is.
The Anointing: The anointing is a special endowment of power given by the Holy Spirit to His servants to do supernatural things. The anointing can be increased by prayer and fasting. It can be decreased due to sin in the person’s life. The anointing can be transmitted via the laying on of hands. The anointing is tangible, it can be felt, it can knock you down to the ground. It has been described as fire, electricity, power, heat, and warmth. Charismatics have books and tape series on the anointing. They love to speak of it, call it an unction, and are experts in discerning whether a minister “has the anointing” or not. The anointing is mystical and at times spooky. The only problem is 99.9% of their teaching on the anointing is without Biblical support! It is a doctrine based on extra-Biblical experiences, texts taken out of context, and Pentecostal traditions.

That is a pretty good definition.

Chist means anointed one and his anointing for us. Through him we have access to the Holy Spirit and that anointing.

Be filled with the spirit, not wine. Is there a different feeling from being filled, and not being filled?

I can do all things through the anointing (The anointed one and his anointing) for us. What's it feel like to have the flesh feel the powe of God?

We do have a unction from the Holy Spirit and know all things. You see that through acts, but it's a Word of Wisdom or Knowledge. You just know something.

I have been around this for 17 years, so I tend to take things for granted that I should not.

The anointing was transfered from the robes of Jesus to the women with the issue of Blood. It can be contained in cloth I am told which is a scripture.

When going to teach as a Pastor, I can attest to the anointing coming, without it your words have no power, and things just don't come to you as they should. I can tell when the anointing is there.

I can tell when someone else is anointed and speaks in tongues. I stopped and talked to a stranger at a table who was eathing with his wife. I said , Sir, I sense the power of God on you and you speak in tongues.

You can feel it, He ended up being a Apostolic Minister who believes in Oneness, but he was anointed and did speak in tongues a whole lot.

The Holy Spirit is real, the gifts are real.

Best to seek God about it. Most my Pentecoastal Brothers and Sisters can be real annoying with the immaturity concerning the gifts. I try to avoid them most the time, but it does not mean the real is not there. My wife and I were talking about that today.

Our church does not let folks just act out, and is very in control of who does what. Some believe that my Pastor does not let the gifts flow, but my stance is that if He did, it would be chaos.
 
Baptists and tongues?.....:thinking

What thread is this? There is another thread about this. Lots of other threads I have seen through the years here with arguements about a difference in getting dunked in water and Baptised in the Holy Spirit like in Acts with tongues.

My stance is that if I see it in scripture, I want all God has. Took me over a year to get that tongues thing settled. Brought up Baptist, so I had mental blocks that it all had been done away with.
 
After Christ left this earth,He gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit John 14:16.Now all Christians are anointed,chosen for a specific purpose in furthering God's Kingdom. 1 John 2:20;2 Corinthians 1:21-22.
The anointing does not have any power.It is only God who can anoint a person for a specific purpose.
 
Last edited:
Kathi
Not all people who operate in the gifts are WOF as many define WOF. When someone says WOF they very often mean greed. But not all are that way.
 
After Christ left this earth,He gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit John 14:16.Now all Christians are anointed,chosen for a specific purpose in furthering God's Kingdom. 1 John 2:20;2 Corinthians 1:21-22.

Sounds good. I believe there is a difference in being dunked in water and being filled with the Holy Spirit. Jesus said ask your father in Heaven and He will give you the Holy Ghost. God has to be your Father first, so that means born again first.

However, Nobody had really explained to me why we would need both. I believe we do, but why?

Paul met some folks just baptised in Johns Baptism. He asked if they had the Holy Ghost, they said not so much of heard of this Holy Ghost. So Paul baptised them in the Holy Spirit and they spake in tongues.

So why was not the Water Baptism not enough? I see it in scripture, but Nobody has been able to really explain it TO ME.
 
Back
Top