Timing of the Tribulation

[Kathi]

There are alot of people whointerpret differently when the trumpets sound or when the seal and bowl occur but they still believe it is future from now.

 

[Kathi]

Very literally Isaiah 13 is speaking of Babylon

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

So by that are you saying the tribulation is in the past or in the future?

 

[jocor]

Very literally Isaiah 13 is speaking of Babylon

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Can this have a dual fulfillment as applied to the Babylon of Rev 18:21? This verse seems to be parallel with Isa 13:19-20.

 

[Deborah13]

Interesting. Never heard that before. Why do you reject that it can be referring to Yeshua coming at the last trump to gather his elect via resurrection from all over the Earth? How do you understand verse 30?

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.​

I compare these scriptures to try to understand what this verse in Matthew may be saying.
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

Mat 16:27 `For, the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father, with his messengers, and then he will reward each, according to his work.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.'

Mar 14:62 and Jesus said, `I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.'
Mar 14:63 And the chief priest, having rent his garments, saith, `What need have we yet of witnesses?
Yeshua is talking to different people in these verses but I believe He is speaking of the same event.
Does this mean to literally see with the physical eye or does this mean to see as to know that what is happening is by and because of Him.
I would hope that if I were a Jew when the terrors of those days happened I would remember what those Christians had said, whom I had not believed. That I would cry out to God and beat my breast and moan unto repentance.
Mat 24:22 And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened.
Because of this verse I believe there were those who did remember. There were Jews who had heard the warnings and had ignored them. But the Lord hear their cries of remorse and in His mercy stopped the destruction before all flesh was destroyed.

 

[Kathi]

Can this have a dual fulfillment as applied to the Babylon of Rev 18:21? This verse seems to be parallel with Isa 13:19-20.

What do you mean by dual fulfillment?

 

[jocor]

I compare these scriptures to try to understand what this verse in Matthew may be saying.
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

Mat 16:27 `For, the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father, with his messengers, and then he will reward each, according to his work.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.'

Mar 14:62 and Jesus said, `I am; and ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming with the clouds, of the heaven.'
Mar 14:63 And the chief priest, having rent his garments, saith, `What need have we yet of witnesses?
Yeshua is talking to different people in these verses but I believe He is speaking of the same event.
Does this mean to literally see with the physical eye or does this mean to see as to know that what is happening is by and because of Him.
I would hope that if I were a Jew when the terrors of those days happened I would remember what those Christians had said, whom I had not believed. That I would cry out to God and beat my breast and moan unto repentance.
Mat 24:22 And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened.
Because of this verse I believe there were those who did remember. There were Jews who had heard the warnings and had ignored them. But the Lord hear their cries of remorse and in His mercy stopped the destruction before all flesh was destroyed.

So, are you saying the Messiah has already come a second time?

 

[Kathi]

So, are you saying the Messiah has already come a second time?

I am not saying anything.Do you think the Messiah has come a second time?

 

[jocor]

What do you mean by dual fulfillment?

That a prophecy can be fulfilled twice. Portions can be fulfilled at different times.

 

[jocor]

I am not saying anything.Do you think the Messiah has come a second time?

I asked that question to Deborah.

 

[reba]

Can this have a dual fulfillment as applied to the Babylon of Rev 18:21? This verse seems to be parallel with Isa 13:19-20.

Many prophesy can and do have duel fulfillment. The Scriptures are so wonderfully written

jocor would God have allowed the Romans to destroy Jerusalem circa 70 AD with out a warning?

My view is what folks (not scripture) label 'the great tribulation' is past...

 

[Kathi]

Many prophesy can and do have duel fulfillment. The Scriptures are so wonderfully written

jocor would God have allowed the Romans to destroy Jerusalem circa 70 AD with out a warning?

My view is what folks (not scripture) label 'the great tribulation' is past...

How do you define 'the great tribulation'?Do you see it in Scripture?

 

[jocor]

Many prophesy can and do have duel fulfillment. The Scriptures are so wonderfully written

jocor would God have allowed the Romans to destroy Jerusalem circa 70 AD with out a warning?

My view is what folks (not scripture) label 'the great tribulation' is past...

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Do you believe the "great tribulation" of Mt 24:21 is past?

 

[reba]

Kathi i have tried to explain this before .. maybe this way will explain..... here are the words of Jesus
Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Notice Jesus does not say "THE great tribulation " man has added the word THE . removing the generalized statement of Jesus...

I am sure there are translations that say "the"

From dictionary .com
the
definite article
1.
(used, especially before a noun, with a specifying or particularizing effect, as opposed to the indefinite or generalizing force of the indefinite article a or an):
the book you gave me; Come into the house.
2.
(used to mark a proper noun, natural phenomenon, ship, building,time, point of the compass, branch of endeavor, or field of study assomething well-known or unique):
the sun; the Alps; the Queen Elizabeth; the past; the West.

 

[reba]

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Do you believe the "great tribulation" of Mt 24:21 is past?

As it applies to the Olivet Discourse , yes.

 

[Kathi]

Kathi i have tried to explain this before .. maybe this way will explain..... here are the words of Jesus
Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Notice Jesus does not say "THE great tribulation " man has added the word THE . removing the generalized statement of Jesus...

I am sure there are translations that say "the"

From dictionary .com
the
definite article
1.
(used, especially before a noun, with a specifying or particularizing effect, as opposed to the indefinite or generalizing force of the indefinite article a or an):
the book you gave me; Come into the house.
2.
(used to mark a proper noun, natural phenomenon, ship, building,time, point of the compass, branch of endeavor, or field of study assomething well-known or unique):
the sun; the Alps; the Queen Elizabeth; the past; the West.

I know you have but that does not give me a straight answer.Do you believe that the tribulation is past or future?

 

[jocor]

Kathi i have tried to explain this before .. maybe this way will explain..... here are the words of Jesus
Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Notice Jesus does not say "THE great tribulation " man has added the word THE . removing the generalized statement of Jesus...

I am sure there are translations that say "the"

From dictionary .com
the
definite article
1.
(used, especially before a noun, with a specifying or particularizing effect, as opposed to the indefinite or generalizing force of the indefinite article a or an):
the book you gave me; Come into the house.
2.
(used to mark a proper noun, natural phenomenon, ship, building,time, point of the compass, branch of endeavor, or field of study assomething well-known or unique):
the sun; the Alps; the Queen Elizabeth; the past; the West.

Why would it need "the" if it is talking about the greatest tribulation that will ever hit the world?

 

[Deborah13]

So, are you saying the Messiah has already come a second time?

No, the Messiah is coming.
Joh 14:1 `Let not your heart be troubled, believe in God, also in me believe;
Joh 14:2 in the house of my Father are many mansions; and if not, I would have told you; I go on to prepare a place for you;
Joh 14:3 and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be;

 

[reba]

Kathi I have answered your question twice in this thread post # 30 and # 34... here it is again.

Yes IMO what folks refer to as "the great tribulation' is past ...

 

[Kathi]

Kathi I have answered your question twice in this thread post # 30 and # 34... here it is again.

Yes IMO what folks refer to as "the great tribulation' is past ...

So you believe that "the great tribulation" is past.....confirmed...Roger 10 4

 

[reba]

Why would it need "the" if it is talking about the greatest tribulation that will ever hit the world?

jocor what is the definition of the word 'world' ? Is it the same in these verses?

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Was the flood a tribulation to those not on the boat? So after 'the great tribulation' will there be lest then 8 saved?