Tithing - The Truth Please

[BeforeThereWas]

So, there are two primary questions still unanswered in this thread:

1) Where in the NT do we see a transition of the tithe and its direct tie to the temple, shift over to the Church?

2) Where do we see anything similar to organized religion, as we know it today, becoming the replacement of the Levites in collecting that tithe?

Quite frankly, I have, to this day, never seen any legitimate parellel drawn. Some may assume that the Bible doesn't need to provide such a direct parellel, but if the tithe is going to be taught as a requirement, then there sure better be something more solid than what's been presented in defense thus far. Great philosophers, such as Immanuel Kant, would have a time with the gross illogic and bad theology presented in defense of required tithing. The theological tapestry of required tithing is, thus far, too riddled with holes to be of any use as a worthwhile system. If we were to accept the appologetics presented here for tithing, then we would also be forced to accept many of the claims of mormonism, for if we are going to uphold and accept such shabby appologetics in support of required tithing, then we most assuradly will have failed in our duty to apply all the tests of doctrinal continuity with the context, setting, timeframe, and many other acid tests of a teaching's legitimacy as being presented by its adherent's. It would be in this failure on our part that we would then be worthy of ever jab and smear the unbelieving world throws our way. However, I choose not to be worthy of those smears and jabs, but to stand firmly upon that most high plateu of doctrinal purity.

BTW

 

[Imagican]

BTW,

I continually find it amazing how easy it is in our times for mass brain-washing of the congregation by the 'Church'. Your points have been perfectly scripturally sound, yet, the 'Church' has had such an influence on it's followers that they are blind to the 'truth'.

If Christ lives in our hearts and we love God through Him, there is no need to beg for what we need for this will be provided. Christ tried His best to explain this to us yet we still insist upon faith in everything but Him.

Tithing was law much as sacrifice was law. We were told even durring the period that these laws were manditory that it would not always be this way. There would come a time when we would not need the law and sacrifece to bridge the gap between and God and ourselves. The laws of God would be written in our hearts instead of on tablets and paper and tradition. The time of Christ was that exact time. We are no longer seperated from God by our sin, (the law), thanks to His Son Jesus Christ.

Now that a part of God can actually live within us, do we still choose to be bound and seperated by the law? If Christ, (a part of God), lives within us, won't we know how to help each other as the Spirit leads us? Were we told to place our faith in the leaders of Churches or in Christ Jesus.

So if we place our faith in Jesus Christ and develope a true relationship with the Father through His Son isn't it plain to see that manditory tithing becomes null and void and instead of a pastor or priest having to stand in front of the congregation begging for money, God's will would be made known in the hearts of those that know him and we would each and every one give when and where it was needed for the benefit of the individuals in need, (our brothers and sisters in Christ would never be needy).

The present form of organized religion has become completely and utterly dependant upon the congregation for the support of it's ministries and functions instead of being dependant upon God. We have learned once again to be dependant upon ourselves rather than God. And once again this can be traced back to those that would lead in falsehoods for 'filthy lucres sake' instead of truth through the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

 

[Imagican]

If anyone is interested.... I have a nice outline of the doctrine of tithing, that I have in one of my study Bibles, that I would happily scan and post a link to so you guys can read it.

anyone interested?

BibleJunky

I wish you had posted it in actual text so that we could go through it step by step. However, I will try to hit upon it point by point:

The first statement, that tithing predates the Law In Genesis is utterly false. The tithe as defined by the Law, which is what most pro-tithers point at, is not at all similar to the events portrayed in Genesis. Just because it's in the back of your Bible (I think) doesn't mean it enjoys the same infallibility as the word of God itself. Abraham's TENTH of the SPOILS is not anything we can mimmick today, nor would anyone, in their right mind, wish to mimmick Jacob's TENTH. If you think I'm wrong about this, then I would certainly like to see the error in my viewpoint.

The next section talking about the tithe supplying "God's House" had to do with provision for the Levites, the fatherless, the widows, and the stranger between the times that the tithe was brought forth.

We've already dealt with Jesus' teaching of the tithe in this thread, the gross misunderstanding of which was effectively dispatched. Just because Jesus talked about it doesn't mean that it's something that carries over to this day. He made no mention of it continuing, only that the pharasees, who boasted of paying even of their herbal crops, and who were still under the Lawful requirement to tithe of their crops and herds, for the New Covenant had not, as of this reference to the pharasees, been established. Transplanting from the Law what happens to be convenient for man-made, organized religion is itself highly suspect to say the least.

Yes, God did ordain the support of ministers, however He never made metion of local elders ceasing to be productive citizens in their respective communities. I also pointed out that just because someone is elected/hired as a leader within organized religion doesn't mean that they are suddenly become Biblically qualified as leaders within the Church, because the Church is not at all defined by man-made churches. For many centuries, organized religion has boasted of its alleged sole right to be viewed as being representative of the Church in its universal and local expression. I reject this because of the many fallacies of organized religion, and its tendency toward self-indulgence.

BTW

I tend to believe you're just looking for an excuse not to give your required tithe. and if this is the case, KEEP YOUR MONEY! God doesn't want a grumpy giver, but a cheerful giver, if it offends you, don't do it!

The only thing you will miss out on is blessings.

But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
(2 Corinthians 9:6-7 KJV)

One thing to remember is Legalism will kill you, in the end.

Futher more, How are Pastors and or Ministers supposed to be paid? especally if they're full time? and YES, God does call people to serve full time. I'm one of them.

Answer me that. I bet you can't or will blather more legalistic nonsense, if that's the case, spare me, ok? 'Cause I know the word, and you obviously don't.

-Chuck

This guy is kinda funny. He uses the same tactics that the 'Church' uses: guilt. Please don't ever think that you can 'buy' your way into heaven.

And it's awful funny how the 'Church' leaders teach us that God will bless us if we give to them. Why aren't they relying upon the blessings of God for 'their' money instead of begging the congregation and pointing our this very thing?

 

[Imagican]

If you know the word, then read what Paul wrote to us to use as an example of the support of pastors and ministers.

 

[John the Baptist]

Personally as far as I am concerned, being one who loves my Master, I see nothing in Matthew 23:23 where Christ tells anyone that God changes? Or that they are not the same yesterday, today and forever?? In fact Christ simply continues on with the reason of His coming to earth in the first place! Isaiah 42:21.

Yet, even though I believe in both God's Tithe & Offerings, there is another REQUIREMENT before giving, it seem's to me! Robbing God??

Surely all here will take a goodly amount (because they love Christ & those ones for whom He died) and send the 'offering' to help the latest disaster victims.

But how could anyone support the ones of Revelation 17:1-5, and verse 5
needs close scrutiny to understand how one robs God by supporting these ones, or even to be in membership with the such! See Revelation 18:4 :

---John

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Personally as far as I am concerned, being one who loves my Master, I see nothing in Matthew 23:23 where Christ tells anyone that God changes?

Hopefully, I'm understanding the direction of your post: The issue was never about God changing. However, if one is going to make that the standard by which he determines what portions of the Law apply today, then he must also offer up burnt sacrifices. Additionally, if he's going to adhere to the Law governing tithes, then is he not guilty of robbing God by supporting an institution that uses any portion of the tithe for the building? If so, then he stands guilty of supporting robbery of the needy and, ultimately, robbing God, because that robs the poor and the "Levites", and therefore God.

Or that they are not the same yesterday, today and forever?? In fact Christ simply continues on with the reason of His coming to earth in the first place! Isaiah 42:21.

Then do you take your tithe to the temple as the Law demands? After all, if God's not changing means that the Law requiring tithes are still valid for today, which also means that what is to be done with the tithe is equally valid for today.

Yet, even though I believe in both God's Tithe & Offerings, there is another REQUIREMENT before giving, it seem's to me! Robbing God??

Surely all here will take a goodly amount (because they love Christ & those ones for whom He died) and send the 'offering' to help the latest disaster victims.

For those who can, yes.

But how could anyone support the ones of Revelation 17:1-5, and verse 5
needs close scrutiny to understand how one robs God by supporting these ones, or even to be in membership with the such! See Revelation 18:4

Organized religion has been entangled with the kings of this earth since its beginnings in about the time of Constantine, who was the original founder of the RCC. So, there's nothing new about this fact concerning organized religion itself.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

This guy is kinda funny. He uses the same tactics that the 'Church' uses: guilt. Please don't ever think that you can 'buy' your way into heaven.

That's ok. People like him are a penny a thousand. I later wasn't so sure that maybe he wasn't simply being intentionally facicious for the sake of argument and harassment of those who truly think that way. It's not easy imagining that anyone could be so base, and yet still believe the Bible.

And it's awful funny how the 'Church' leaders teach us that God will bless us if we give to them. Why aren't they relying upon the blessings of God for 'their' money instead of begging the congregation and pointing our this very thing?

What we have are basic reproductions of Robert Tilton behind almost every pulpit in the country. The institution and its survival is the highest priority with most so-called "ministers".

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

"Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel." (1 Corinthians 9:13,14 NIV)

Here's a prime example of the gross misapplication of scripture. What most people fail to do is read the scriptures for what they say. Here is a valid point about the above quote that most people, being far less than critical thinkers, seem to miss:

Paul clearly asked, "Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?" Did you get that? The ministers (Levites) got their FOOD from the temple. That culture had currency, just as we do today, and yet Paul clearly stated that they got their FOOD from the temple, not their LIVING. The Levites also served other functions within the culture, such as physicians, musicians, tradesmen of all kinds, leaders, etc. In other words, they were still productive citizens within their respective communities, not dead-beats sponging all their living off a small segment of the population, within a small segment of organized religion. They served many, many functions, with ministry being their main focus.

What a difference we see today.

 

[John the Baptist]

"Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel." (1 Corinthians 9:13,14 NIV)

Here's a prime example of the gross misapplication of scripture. What most people fail to do is read the scriptures for what they say. Here is a valid point about the above quote that most people, being far less than critical thinkers, seem to miss:

Paul clearly asked, "Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?" Did you get that? The ministers (Levites) got their FOOD from the temple. That culture had currency, just as we do today, and yet Paul clearly stated that they got their FOOD from the temple, not their LIVING. The Levites also served other functions within the culture, such as physicians, musicians, tradesmen of all kinds, leaders, etc. In other words, they were still productive citizens within their respective communities, not dead-beats sponging all their living off a small segment of the population, within a small segment of organized religion. They served many, many functions, with ministry being their main focus.

What a difference we see today.

***
John here: I agree with this heavenly 'recorded' paragraph of yours!!

"Here's a prime example of the gross misapplication of scripture. What most people fail to do is read the scriptures for what they say. Here is a valid point about the above quote that most people, being far less than critical thinkers, seem to miss: .."

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Just to make sure there's no misunderstanding: buildings, bells, towers, spires, sidewalks, plush lawn care, etc., those are just things. They don't define who or what a group is in Christ. Having or not having a building doesn't define any group as being more or less spiritual than another. What makes the difference is the desire (or lack thereof) and the active obedience (or lack thereof) to the word of God.

The spiritual in Christ say, Amen, and strive to live the examples and commands of God by, for example, ensuring that every last penny of the primary portion of their giving is used in accordance with the very word of God they claim to believe.

The not-so-spiritual outside of Christ say, "Look, our church has many outreaches to those in need, and it also has bills to pay. There's nothing wrong with using 99% of our giving for the church upkeep and expenses, as long as something goes for meeting needs." How base and shallow. Paul once defined sin as "missing the mark," and this certainly falls well within that definition.

One shouldn't need a crash dummy to test which of the above is more in line with what Jesus said in John 14:15, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Don't the examples He set forth in His word carry equal force as a direct command? Judge for yourself. The outcome always demonstrates the inner desires.

BTW

 

[John the Baptist]

Well, James 2:19-26 tells us how to know what you are telling us of from John 14:15.

My being one who can 'see', finds me understanding what one believes by their actions. And I have been around a while! It is kind of nice to have the Government S.S. checks sent, rather than wait for your plan, huh? (read Genesis 4:7!)

I have always found that most talk is cheap fruit. My wife was the church treasure for years. (in expression) She used to just shake her head & tell me, that I just would not believe who gives, and who does not. She meant that the one who make the most noise are tight wads, (sick love!) and the ones who make little noise are the ones who really love Christ! (and that is no different than any 'Doctrinal' Christian principal)

And the posting's of no N.T. tithes & OFFERINGS??? Well, I rest my case for who these ones love. :o

---John

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Fascinating. Just goes to show you that organized religion draws all kinds of people.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

ADAM SMITH thought the Church of England was doomed. Any clergyman who relies on a benefice for his income, he explained in "The Wealth of Nations" in 1776, has little incentive to give parishioners what they need."

(Tithing trouble , Economist, 00130613, 11/8/2003, Vol. 369, Issue 8349)

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Many tend to attach spirituality to tithing, when in fact there really was nothing spiritual about it at all. The Law required its payment from the increase of the crops and the herds. Many attempts have been made to spiritualize tithing by pointing at Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils, and at Jacob promising to give the Lord a tenth of everything he received in the future. We find no example of either of these two examples being copied anywhere in scripture.

What we do find is the simplicity of giving what a man purposes in his heart having a spiritual dynamic attached. The implications of this simple fact should cause one to pause and consider if his inclinations are in the direction of required tithing, which finds no support anywhere in the NT.

BTW

 

[John the Baptist]

Many tend to attach spirituality to tithing, when in fact there really was nothing spiritual about it at all. The Law required its payment from the increase of the crops and the herds. Many attempts have been made to spiritualize tithing by pointing at Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils, and at Jacob promising to give the Lord a tenth of everything he received in the future. We find no example of either of these two examples being copied anywhere in scripture.

What we do find is the simplicity of giving what a man purposes in his heart having a spiritual dynamic attached. The implications of this simple fact should cause one to pause and consider if his inclinations are in the direction of required tithing, which finds no support anywhere in the NT.

BTW

********
Hay, all you did with that line of Truth is to prove that they are right & that your 'heart' (post) is not in the required Born Again time period as of yet!!

And some always talk of robbing God in tithes alone. Yet, the Malachi 3:6-8 verses state that God does not change! And He also states the robbing of offerings as well. So as one goes, so goes the other. :o

But your message comes along as the servant of whom??? See Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15 for 'your' new thing. No, it does not take much Love for Christ, to understand His Words in Matthew 23:23 & Matthew 23:3 for His Truly Born Again ones. Each Word of Christ leaves us with Commandment to not leave the other undone, along with pointing out the reason of following HIM, that of LOVE!! (Recreated Love, and He was seen from start to finish in the O.T. by these ones)

They see a real message by just the several verses there alone. That of Christ's LOVING COMMANDMENT'S. *Weightier MATTERS OF THE LAW! And even tells these ones what the 'bottom line' of His Eternal Covenant Law it is. JUDGEMENT! MERCY! FAITH! And seeing that this also is most likely troublesome for your understanding? see Matthew 22:35-40. I suggest that you best read these verses!! :o You know, a few verses back was the Word 'Judgement'.

And we also see the very opposite extreme from your postings! I call these ones 'loose cannons'. For we even see some on the boards calling for no organization, Christ is my leader.
Sure He is. : And then cannot understand the Godhead's Eternal Gospel order!?

Whatever?? See Jude 10-12

---John

 

[BeforeThereWas]

And some always talk of robbing God in tithes alone. Yet, the Malachi 3:6-8 verses state that God does not change! And He also states the robbing of offerings as well. So as one goes, so goes the other. :o

Yes, they do speak of God not changing. However, none of this has had anything to do with God changing. What it speaks of is the Law. The tithe was tied directly to the temple and the Levites as the collectors. Now, if you can show me where the word of God authorized the shift from the one temple building and Levites to multitudes of man-made buildings of organized religion and ushers, then we'll have something with which to go forward. This picking and choosing from the Law what is still applicable today is suspect to say the least. Trying to trip the subject up to land in your favor with a form of contrived spiritual dynamic is no different than a vanilla ice cream cone dipped in chocolate. Underneath, it's still vanilla. I've seen all this before, and those who stand behind this tactic never rely upon any authoritative statement from scripture, but always pull key verses up out of context and weave together a pseudo-spiritual tapestry that is easily seen for its contradictory nature to what ALL scripture has to say on the subject. Talking like the other "just doesn't get it" is nothing more than the fallacy of "reduction to absurdity".

But your message comes along as the servant of whom???

Ahh, yes. The next step is, of course, association with a less than desirable comparison. Good, successful tacticians know that shifting strategy and being creative is always a better policy. This all reads like a textbook chronology. Not much of any spiritual origin in that. The Spirit of God is infinitely creative and doesn't miss the mark like this post of yours.

No, it does not take much Love for Christ, to understand His Words in Matthew 23:23 & Matthew 23:3 for His Truly Born Again ones. Each Word of Christ leaves us with Commandment to not leave the other undone, along with pointing out the reason of following HIM, that of LOVE!! (Recreated Love, and He was seen from start to finish in the O.T. by these ones)

Ah, yes. Love, love love. Tell you what, friend. Merely talking about love will never become the catalyst that allows anyone to successfully corrupt the word of God with pseudo-spiritual warps and twists. Jesus was not talking to us in Matthew 23, He was talking to a pharisee, who was still under the requirement to obey ALL the Law, which included the tithe from the crop of spice he raised.

It gets really old hearing charismatic, pseudo-spiritualists ignoring so many of the keys within scripture that gives us an understanding of the truly spiritual depths of the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. People like that, in spite of their seemingly spiritual flare, turn right around and bind the heavy burden of the Law right back upon the shoulders of their listeners and followers. Pseudo-spiritualists are very much like the pharisees. They build up a shabby theological construct, hoping that its weaknesses won't be noticed by their followers.

What's so spiritual about declaring that Jesus required us all to continue the Law of tithing, but rather than the nonexistent temple, but to organized, man-made religious institutions with buildings and real estate? Can you answer that? Hey, I have no problem with a group having a building in common, and I have no problem with people wanting to tithe, but you don't have to be even a spiritual babe to realize that the tithe going to support a dead building rather than meet needs clearly is a violation of not only the Spirit of the Law, but also is exemplified NOWHERE in the word of God in either testament. If you think you can make a case for it being right, that it's ok for the primary portion of our giving supporting buildings, then, friend, I'd like to see it. Please address this rather than meander around aimlessly in an area I didn't ask about, like so many have done in the past.

They see a real message by just the several verses there alone. That of Christ's LOVING COMMANDMENT'S. *Weightier MATTERS OF THE LAW! And even tells these ones what the 'bottom line' of His Eternal Covenant Law it is. JUDGEMENT! MERCY! FAITH!

I agree, but this doesn't give anyone license to dredge up from the Law the tithe as a requirement upon the followers of Christ. The weightier matters of the Law certainly are higher, realities that are obviously above tithing to the Levites.

Here's the real thrust of all this. Can you show me where the word of God authorized a shift in emphasis of the tithe from strictly meeting needs over to being used for real estate and buildings? Can you show that to me from scripture? I'd very much appreciate your discussing this.

And seeing that this also is most likely troublesome for your understanding? see Matthew 22:35-40. I suggest that you best read these verses!! :o You know, a few verses back was the Word 'Judgement'.

Ok, so what's your point? Can you be more specific? What revelation is there that Jesus upheld the Law and the commandments, especially before He had established the New Covenant? The Law still stands today. I agree, but I dare say that you violate it on a daily basis. Are you wearing garments woven together with more than one type of fiber? Watch out for that bear trap, for it might snap off your leg. :o

[/quote]And we also see the very opposite extreme from your postings! I call these ones 'loose cannons'. For we even see some on the boards calling for no organization, Christ is my leader.
Sure He is. : And then cannot understand the Godhead's Eternal Gospel order!? [/quote]

Nothing like a little dishonest misrepresentation of my statements in order to keep the contention going, eh? Well, I gotta tell ya. Recognizing the fact that being a leader within organized religion doesn't automatically qualify one as a leader within the Church is no real revelation to those who take God's word seriously. I'm not at all against a group banding together and hiring professional clergy to head up their religious ceremonies. I prefer what was practiced in the NT Church portrayed within the Bible, which is meeting in homes in fellowship, mutual edification, teaching and worship. If you prefer buildings, and being a part of an audience, and sitting in pews (or chairs), looking at the backs of other people's heads rather than fellowshipping with them, that's fine by me. I prefer something more meaningful, where I can put to use my spiritual maturity among my brothers and sisters. Being a functional part of the gathering of believers is much more preferable to me than being just another face within a passive, non-functional audience.

BTW

 

[John the Baptist]

You say in bold print:

Here's the real thrust of all this. Can you show me where the word of God authorized a shift in emphasis of the tithe from strictly meeting needs over to being used for real estate and buildings? Can you show that to me from scripture? I'd very much appreciate your discussing this.

*******
John here: And you talk of 'me' twisting scripture??? :fadein:

The subject was that of robbing God in tithes! The offering alone were for the church building, or other such Love offerings??

Yet, because the Revelation 17:1-5 ones botch it all up, does not make the Truth any more less than that of the Truth!

See satan's 'quote' of Truth from Matthew 4:6? Surely because he quoted almost Word for Word, the Master's own Words from Psalms 91:11 making them void without the Eternal COVENANT condition, (First see Hebrews 13:20 & then Deuteronomy 6:16) is only a satanic reason for Robbing God of HIS intrusted due!!
And that of 'tithing' was for a certain purpose! That is, was & always will be Truth! :wink:

 

[BeforeThereWas]

You say in bold print:

Here's the real thrust of all this. Can you show me where the word of God authorized a shift in emphasis of the tithe from strictly meeting needs over to being used for real estate and buildings? Can you show that to me from scripture? I'd very much appreciate your discussing this.

*******
John here: And you talk of 'me' twisting scripture??? :fadein:

The subject was that of robbing God in tithes! The offering alone were for the church building, or other such Love offerings??

Yet, because the Revelation 17:1-5 ones botch it all up, does not make the Truth any more less than that of the Truth!

See satan's 'quote' of Truth from Matthew 4:6? Surely because he quoted almost Word for Word, the Master's own Words from Psalms 91:11 making them void without the Eternal COVENANT condition, (First see Hebrews 13:20 & then Deuteronomy 6:16) is only a satanic reason for Robbing God of HIS intrusted due!!
And that of 'tithing' was for a certain purpose! That is, was & always will be Truth! :wink:

Lots and lots of talk, but no real answers to my question. I never said a word about offerings. Ok? Can you understand that? The tithe that so many people talk about with so much emphasis is the topic. Rather than talk about the definition of Truth, which has nothing to do with a list of right and proper statements, why not just answer my question?

Dancing around may help make a medicine man or a voodoo doctor look spiritual, but it serves no real purpose in your favor.

Now, what REALLY is of the devil is organized religion's use of the tithe for its own expenditures and expansion. When your "church" robs God because it robs the poor of the provision of the tithe, then you have a far greater problem on your hands for supporting such an evil enterprise.

What say you?

BTW

 

[John the Baptist]

You say in bold print:

Here's the real thrust of all this. Can you show me where the word of God authorized a shift in emphasis of the tithe from strictly meeting needs over to being used for real estate and buildings? Can you show that to me from scripture? I'd very much appreciate your discussing this.

*******
John here: And you talk of 'me' twisting scripture??? :fadein:

The subject was that of robbing God in tithes! The offering alone were for the church building, or other such Love offerings??

Yet, because the Revelation 17:1-5 ones botch it all up, does not make the Truth any more less than that of the Truth!

See satan's 'quote' of Truth from Matthew 4:6? Surely because he quoted almost Word for Word, the Master's own Words from Psalms 91:11 making them void without the Eternal COVENANT condition, (First see Hebrews 13:20 & then Deuteronomy 6:16) is only a satanic reason for Robbing God of HIS intrusted due!!
And that of 'tithing' was for a certain purpose! That is, was & always will be Truth! :wink:

Lots and lots of talk, but no real answers to my question. I never said a word about offerings. Ok? Can you understand that? The tithe that so many people talk about with so much emphasis is the topic. Rather than talk about the definition of Truth, which has nothing to do with a list of right and proper statements, why not just answer my question?

Dancing around may help make a medicine man or a voodoo doctor look spiritual, but it serves no real purpose in your favor.

BTW

*************
Haw! Your message??? Genesis 6:3

It is God's Word that has been used from MALACHI 3:8 of robbing God in both tithes & offerings! Straight from Their Eternal Covenant of 'STEALING'!!!

And there has been many more verses of Truth that Christ stated, that were POSTED, that you 'DESIRE' to post up against, read them, it is a fact! Weightier Matters of 'JUDGEMENT' for one!

See Genesis 4:7 in the K.J. forum, for who these posts [WORK] for!? And Ephesians 6:12. When the robbing of God is done, who is the beneficiary? It takes no N.T. genius to figure that one out, huh??

And offerings??? It is like 'pulling teeth' to even get a buck of Gods money from the unconverted, unless it is as the Master stated from Matthew 23:23-25.

ENOUGH SAID FOR ANY OF CHRIST'S SINCERE ONES!!!

Alway remember that it is a simple statement from HIM.. "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" These ones Rob God? It will NEVER HAPPEN! ---John

 

[BeforeThereWas]

But all "churches" rob God on a weekly basis. They absorb the tithes for their own use, letting a little smidgen go for a token outreach here and there to make their followers think they're doing what's right in God's word.

No thanks. That's why I walked away from organized, religious institutions because they rob God constantly, and those people, both those who received the tithes and abused them, and those who gave it to them, will be judged one day for their evil.

BTW