Tongues

[TruthSeeker2012]

I will not question the sincerity of those I do not know, but "tongues" are the easyist to counterfeit.

Yes it was easy for Satan to counterfeit.

I have a question for everyone..If the true and genuine tongues was when people spoke about Jesus in another language and people understood it..what is the fake and counterfeit tongues?

We know from Scripture that the true and genuine tongues was when people spoke about Jesus in another language and people understood it. So it goes to reason that Satan, who counterfeits everything, will counterfeit tongues opposite to the true and genuine, so Satan will create a false counterfeit tongues that nobody can understand a word being said when using tongues.

God gives us a brain to reason and to come to accurate conclusions.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

This goes both ways. Many/most of those who don't believe in tongues have been conditioned to believe they are false and as such they interpret the Bible incorrectly.

Tell me then, in your own words..what is the true and genuine gift of tongues? And who used in Bible and how was it used and why was it used?

Thank you, I look forward to your reply.

 

[n2thelight]

Originally Posted by n2thelight
Another prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled is the speaking of true tongues,Im not talking about the babble that's going on today in some churches,rather as per the below scriptures.......


Mark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them."


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"
We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.

Acts 2:17"And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"

When the sons and daughter speak, it will be heard in every language and dialect in the world. This will not come from the mind of those people, but those people shall be willing witnesses that allow God to speak directly through them to the people. Thus the true gospel of Christ will be spoken.

None of those verses are necessarily referring to tongues nor are they necessarily referring to a yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy.

Mark 13:11 is without a doubt speaking of tongues

Originally Posted by n2thelight
So my question is,when was true tongues spoken again after pentecost???Let me answer,it hasn't........

You cannot know this. You would have to have knowledge of all that was ever said, everywhere in the world, since Pentecost. That, of course, is impossible.

Scripture says it shall happen in the last days....What happens when the Spirit is upon you?

You might not understand this to be a future event but I do

 

[patience7]

"Every single occurence of tongues in the Bible was KNOWN LANGUAGES!"

They were known to someone but not known or learned by the person speaking.

The purpose of speaking in tongues is for edification for the person speaking, and for edification in the church when interpreted. God via the Holy Spirit speaks and He will also give the interpretation. It is a sign for unbelievers of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers.

On the day of Pentecost the disciples did not know nor had learned the languages of those present. That's why the people present were amazed that these Galileans were speaking in the languages wherein they were born : Acts 2:9-11

1 & 2 Corinthians are letters of reproof to correct the way things were being done in the church at Corinth. 1 Corinthians 14 deals with the church missusing the manifestation of speaking in tongues in the church - the same of which does go on in some churches today. 1 Corinthians 12 -14 deal with the manifestations of the Spirit - all of which are given to every believer to profit in their lives (12:7). All scripture is given by inspiration of God - so I would think that apparently God thought it was pretty important! And something He wanted us to know 12:1- Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

The story told about "cursing" by speaking in tongues? - 12:3a Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God (my words: speaking in tongues) calleth Jesus accursed:

As for tongues being "ceased" 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 Charity (agape - love of God) never faileth: but whether there be prophesies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (Do we still have knowledge?) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Operating the manifestation of speaking in tongues is done incorrectly mostly out of ignorance and is not limited to the Pentecostals nor Charismatic churches. I think that is why people take offense with your reproof.

 

[Free]

Mark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them."


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

None of those verses are necessarily referring to tongues nor are they necessarily referring to a yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy.

Mark 13:11 is without a doubt speaking of tongues

No, it is not. You are reading a meaning into the verse that isn't there. It is speaking of the Holy Spirit giving followers of Christ the words to speak in defense. This is not speaking in tongues but likely speech and wisdom from God as a testimony to the power of God in transforming illiterate fishermen into eloquent, fearless defenders of the Gospel.

So my question is,when was true tongues spoken again after pentecost???Let me answer,it hasn't........

You cannot know this. You would have to have knowledge of all that was ever said, everywhere in the world, since Pentecost. That, of course, is impossible.

Scripture says it shall happen in the last days....What happens when the Spirit is upon you?

You might not understand this to be a future event but I do

This doesn't address my point.

 

[Stormcrow]

I address false doctrine...

Checked this thread lately?

Jesus is Michael the Archangel!

Started by TruthSeeker2012‎, 07-29-2011 04:33 PM

Might want to make sure you're not casting stones through your own glass house.

Having said that, I have been in the Charismatic Movement and am currently attending an Assembly of God church. I used to speak in tongues and was even gifted by the H.S. to interpret them.

I don't anymore. I'm inclined to believe that they passed with the Old Covenant when the temple was destroyed and Christ's kingdom was fully ushered in: the "perfect" as Paul called it.

Nevertheless, God is able to work through our ignorance and misunderstanding for His glory and to advance the kingdom. It's not as important that you know every truth in the Bible, but that you are willing to work within the truth you know. Do you think Isaiah knew the truth of everything about God and His plan when he said, "Here am I, Lord. Send me."?

Put another way, a ship sitting still can't be turned. We all go through periods of doctrinal error in our walk. It's part of growing and maturing. But if we study, seek Him and work for His kingdom, God can turn us from every kind of error.

But you have to be moving and let God have the wheel. That's what humility is all about.

For what it's worth.

 

[patience7]

I don't anymore. I'm inclined to believe that they passed with the Old Covenant when the temple was destroyed and Christ's kingdom was fully ushered in: the "perfect" as Paul called it.

Nevertheless, God is able to work through our ignorance and misunderstanding for His glory and to advance the kingdom. It's not as important that you know every truth in the Bible, but that you are willing to work within the truth you know. Do you think Isaiah knew the truth of everything about God and His plan when he said, "Here am I, Lord. Send me."?

"I'm inclined to believe that they passed with the Old Covenant" Passed with the Old Covenant - The manifestation of speaking in tongues wasn't even available in the OT. Joel 2:28-32 is a prophecy of that which was to come and which was manifested first in Acts when the apostles were filled with power from on high and that "power from on high" was made known through the manifestation of speaking in tongues. 1 Corinthians 13:8 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. All the things listed before this is stated shall be done away when that which is perfect is come: If we take that to mean tongues have been done away now, then also charity and knowledge has been done away. When "that which is perfect is come" is the second coming of Christ when he comes back as Lord of Lords and King of Kings for then we shall not need "what we know in part" because we will fully know all things.

"It's not as important that you know every truth in the Bible," I believe that when God starts out telling us something and begins with "I would not have you ignorant" then he would not want us ignorant specifically in this matter.

1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

For what it's worth.

 

[Stormcrow]

The manifestation of speaking in tongues wasn't even available in the OT. Joel 2:28-32 is a prophecy of that which was to come and which was manifested first in Acts when the apostles were filled with power from on high and that "power from on high" was made known through the manifestation of speaking in tongues.

Yes, I know. But did you see what Peter said about this manifestation?

{15} "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; {16} but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: {17} 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; Acts 2:15-17 (NASB)

The manifestation of tongues - as Peter sees them - is a sign that they were in "the last days"!

OK, so then, the "last days" of what?

{18} "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 (NASB)

The "last days" under which Peter and all the apostles saw themselves living were the "last days" of the Law (the Old Covenant), which came to an end when the kingdom of God was taken away from Israel with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. This happened in 70AD.

I can't continue - in good conscience - to use a "gift" that I see as having passed away when Christ's perfect kingdom was fully established. You may feel differently. That is between you and the Holy Spirit.

Having said that, there are other gifts of the Spirit I do see as still being critically important in use in the church today. There are two I have been told I have, though you may disagree: the gifts of teaching and of the discernment of spirits.

Isn't it interesting that Paul writes that God's gifts and calling are "irrevocable" except for one of the gifts he says will pass away?

IMHO, the church needs more gifted pastors, teachers, leaders, and givers, and fewer of those who "speak in tongues" as though it were the most important gift in the Bible.

And I write this having believed quite the opposite once: I once firmly believed that tongues were a sign of the believer's baptism into the Holy Spirit. But the only "sign" by which Jesus said we would ever know any tree was by the fruit it produced, not whether one spoke in tongues.

IMHO, the church today needs to get its priorities straight.

For what it's worth.

 

[Free]

Yes, I know. But did you see what Peter said about this manifestation?

{15} "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; {16} but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: {17} 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; Acts 2:15-17 (NASB)

The manifestation of tongues - as Peter sees them - is a sign that they were in "the last days"!

OK, so then, the "last days" of what?

{18} "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 (NASB)

The "last days" under which Peter and all the apostles saw themselves living were the "last days" of the Law (the Old Covenant), which came to an end when the kingdom of God was taken away from Israel with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. This happened in 70AD.

I can't continue - in good conscience - to use a "gift" that I see as having passed away when Christ's perfect kingdom was fully established. You may feel differently. That is between you and the Holy Spirit.

The "last days" is not "the last days of the Law." "Last days" clearly refers to the end of the age when Christ returns and then fully establishes his perfect kingdom. His kingdom, his reign as King, has begun but his kingdom is not fully established. This isn't a matter of being between an individual and the Holy Spirit either. This is about what the Bible says.

 

[Stormcrow]

The "last days" is not "the last days of the Law." "Last days" clearly refers to the end of the age when Christ returns and then fully establishes his perfect kingdom. His kingdom, his reign as King, has begun but his kingdom is not fully established. This isn't a matter of being between an individual and the Holy Spirit either. This is about what the Bible says.

I'm not going to rehash everything here from the End Times Chat forum. If you'd like to know more about this, please go there and do a search through my posts.

 

[Webb]

Oh that we all might learn to "rightly divide the word of truth."

 

[Stormcrow]

Oh that we all might learn to "rightly divide the word of truth."

I'm trying as hard as I can.

 

[Stormcrow]

For Free, at no cost:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/imperfect-versus-perfect-37299/#post563263

Enjoy!

 

[jasoncran]

For Free, at no cost:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/imperfect-versus-perfect-37299/#post563263

Enjoy!

uh. what would be the point if there was no council or speaking from God via the hs if he isnt needed anymore?

think about what you have just said, some say the reformers were most right in that they schizmed away so that the word could be taught and not as the corrupted rcc at the time. for then wasnt solo fide taught. i find it odd that you teach and preach the fullnes is past and yet the bible wasnt assembled then and when it was two different versions came to be.

one with the apochrya the other didnt. which version is right if theres no words of wisdom? and why pray for healing as that is done. etc.

also when was knowledge done away with? and what knowledge ? it can be the law and or knowlegdge of the way of the ot jews as that is ready available and found. and besides the epistle to the galatians start out as the church being rebuked for going back to the law, hardly needed if that wasnt done on the cross and was waiting to be done in ad 70.

at the cross was the law fulfilled.

 

[Stormcrow]

uh. what would be the point if there was no council or speaking from God via the hs if he isnt needed anymore?

think about what you have just said, some say the reformers were most right in that they schizmed away so that the word could be taught and not as the corrupted rcc at the time. for then wasnt solo fide taught. i find it odd that you teach and preach the fullnes is past and yet the bible wasnt assembled then and when it was two different versions came to be.

one with the apochrya the other didnt. which version is right if theres no words of wisdom? and why pray for healing as that is done. etc.

also when was knowledge done away with? and what knowledge ? it can be the law and or knowlegdge of the way of the ot jews as that is ready available and found. and besides the epistle to the galatians start out as the church being rebuked for going back to the law, hardly needed if that wasnt done on the cross and was waiting to be done in ad 70.

at the cross was the law fulfilled.

I'm not inclined to address a flurry of rhetorical questions, Jason. 2

 

[HisWarrior]

I Corinthians 13:8 allows for the exis­tence of tongues until 'that which is perfect' has come (v. 10), and then 'shall I know even as I am known' '(v. 12).... the time when salvation is complete and we see Christ 'as He is' (I John 3:2).

It is clear to me that until Christ comes, the gifts of the Spirit will be in operation.

I will be praying for each and every child of God to receive this gift, then you will have no doubts that it is real.

Blessings!

 

[jasoncran]

so only love remains and while i think that should be strived for , but in reality we need wisdom from God.

or do you think that all of the bibles depth is so easily searchable and knowable in our lifetimes?

the more i learn from it and read it and ponder God is God and i'm not.

on the creation account little is explained. and revalation and other revalant end times verses arent all that specific at times.

 

[Hawkins]

I suspect "speak in tongue" is something totally different from what we think it is.

Something you might call ti heretic, hehe.. From my study,

when a soul speaks, all other souls will hear their own native language. Say, when you speak in English (your native tongue), a French will hear you speaking in French instead of English. While another guy who is a Chinese nearby will hear you speaking in Chinese instead of English. I suppose this is how the spiritual world works, whether you call it "tongue" or "telepathy".

Now when the language speaking part of your soul speaks off-bodily, and while your audience language listening part is also in a off-body state, all your audience will somehow hear their own native languages instead of your speaking language.

So speak in tongue means you are trying to speak your own language, but somehow others will hear their own languages instead of your language. both the speaking side or the listening side can be born with/gifted with this ability. Alternatively, the Holy Spirit may be around to make the situation so.

Moreover, when you speak off-bodily (i.e. when you speak in tongue), the 'physical' voice will appear as either your own native language or in gibberish, it depends on how "off-body" your soul's speaking part is.

Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

 

[Elijah674]

Another prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled is the speaking of true tongues,Im not talking about the babble that's going on today in some churches,rather as per the below scriptures.......


Mark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them."


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.

Acts 2:17"And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"

When the sons and daughter speak, it will be heard in every language and dialect in the world. This will not come from the mind of those people, but those people shall be willing witnesses that allow God to speak directly through them to the people. Thus the true gospel of Christ will be spoken.

So my question is,when was true tongues spoken again after pentecost???Let me answer,it hasn't........

Acts 5:32 has the Word of God in the Holy Spirits Inspiration [[DOCUMENTATION]]..

'And we are His witnesses of these things; and [SO IS THE HOLY GHOST, whom GOD HATH GIVEN to them [THAT **OBEY HIM**]'

And the Rev. 17:1-5 ARE UNITIFIED sun worshipers (Matt. 6:24) and have been OPENLY dis/obedient for well past any STRIVING'S of the HOLY SPIRIT on them, as was on the lost of the pre/flood ones of Gen. 6:3 and for well past any 120 years!

And the false tongues movement will find many of these professed ministers interpreting + their wives.. who are PARTAKERS (Rev. 18:4) in hells 'BLOTTING OUT OF EXISTANCE' these Obad. 1:16 ones! And most think(???) that these openly documented sinners can intrepret satans gibberish!

And in Gen. 10's last verse & Gen. 11:1's first verse we see ALL EARTH WITH ONE LANGUAGE AND ONE SPEECH! And we are told that we were made in the Image of God! But not us + angels, & the Universe with other worlds twice seen in Heb., huh? They teach that God was the author of Confussion!

And yes, there was & will be again a need for the TRUE GIFT OF TONGUES SEEN. But it will not be done by the ones of James 2:10 ones! (or the ones of Josh. 7:12 last part of the verse ones!)

--Elijah

 

[Bonairos]

I’ve read through the thread and question myself, “Where do I begin?!†HAHA

Tongues and Interpretation of Tongues. Either you have experienced it or you haven’t (or in the case of one reply, “been there, done that!†paraphrasing of course)


One of the points I see passionately promoted is that “tongues†was spoken in a KNOWN language.

Was it? I will stand publicly corrected (for my lack of knowledge) if anyone can show me where it states in the bible that tongues were spoken in a known language. The bible does say however that each HEARD their own language.

BIG Difference! Saying something and hearing something. Sort of like John 12:28-29. Same noise, yet some thought it was thunder, some thought it was an angel, and others heard God (hence the account).

Same could be said in Numbers 22 concerning Balaam and the donkey. I’m sure the donkey wasn’t versed in the language of the day, yet when God is in it, a simple “Baa, Baa!†(okay that may be a sheep sound but you get the point) it will be understood by the intended hearer.


That’s one, never attempt to put God in a box when it comes to He communicating His message(s).



Second, it was stated that “true tongues were never spoken after Pentecost.†Interesting conclusion. But that only leaves another question unanswered.

“Why would the Lord promise it to generations to come?†(if indeed it ceased)



In Acts Chapter 2:4 we read of the Holy Spirit's filling and the speaking of tongues. Then we read that others HEARD in their own language the wonderful works of God.

Then in v.13 we see others mocking this “gibberish†(as some have called it in this thread) and LABELLING the disciples as being drunk, full of new wine, altered in their thinking, unable to reason, unworthy to be taken seriously (and perhaps immature?).

In v.14 Peter begins his discourse refuting the drunken charges. He declares the Christ (not in an unknown tongue I might add).

In v.32-33 he (Peter) says, “This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now SEE . . . and HEAR!â€

In v.36 Peter cuts to the chase and brings it home.

In v.37 the question arises (after seeing and hearing tongues or “babbling†or “gibberish†in operation), “What shall we do?â€

v.38, “Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit†(to include that which they both saw and heard, after all that’s what he was talking about in v.33)


But then he goes on to say in v.39, and this is where I have problems in accepting that “true tongues were never spoken after Pentecost†. . .


“For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.â€


Perhaps after we search Acts chapter 2 (where it began), we can then move on to other references in Acts, 1 Corinthians, the uses, misuses, etc.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!


(All scripture quoted is from the NKJV)