Tongues

[n2thelight]

Bob Carabbio

Another day, another "opinion"
​

Yours included

"But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them. "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost."

This passage, of course has NOTHING to do with "tongues", and is better understood as "Prophetic utterance" - i.e. sharing forth a WORD from God in the "Common tongue". Where you'd get "Tongues" from this is totally mysterious to me.

Has alot to do with tongues,who do you think will hear these Prophetic utterances and in what language?

"When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect.

True, although the "time" came millennia ago - and it has been manifested MANY TIMES over the centuries when Men Spoke that which they received from the Holy Spirit - at the times when it was needed.

This time will come at around the same time as the two witnesses....

The rest of the post is "fanciful speculation", and creative foolishness which I won't bother with, except to say that there are many cases on record of folks:

Speaking in one language, and being heard in another, and sometimes several others.

Speaking in a tongue which was UNDERSTOOD by somebody there present, AND the Gift of interpretation being manifested and agreeing with the "Translation of the tongue" supplied by the one who understood it.

Speaking in a tongue that was understood by NOBODY present, and interpreted in the power of the Holy Spirit in the common tongue.

SO your CLAIM that "Real tongues" haven't been manifested is simply untrue.

I stand by what I post,believe what you will!!

 

[jasoncran]

arent yah glad that they are real pentacostal churches that teach the truth.

i am. raised in that.

to clarify this. i have for the most part since my conversion been in the pentacostal churches.

 

[Enow]

What is the real gift of tongues as explained by Paul?

1 Corinthians 14:20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

This is the same tongue that Paul was referring to in verse two:

1 Corinthians 14:2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It is the same tongue Paul spoke of that was unfruitful to even himself so that is why he prayed that someone would interpret so that he would understand.

1 Corinthians 14:12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

And yet verse two as taken out of context is being implied that tongues is being used as a prayer language, but in context: that is not what Paul was saying.

From the first verse: Paul was exhorting believers that when they desire spiritual gifts: that they would seek the singular gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts. Then Paul went on to explain why by comparing the singular gift of prophesy against the singular gift of tongues. So in context: for the edifying of the church: prophesy trumps tongues because tongues is not a stand alone gift: it has to be interpreted.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

But let us consider the false teaching of tongues as a prayer language.

Matthew 6:7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

If the Father knows before we ask Him, then what need does the Holy Spirit have in saying anything to God? So 1 Corinthians 14:2 was not a verse validating tongue as a prayer language: but stating plainly as a gift by itself: it cannot edify the church. That is what the whole chapter was about: exhalting the gift of prophesy over tongues as Paul was downplaying tongues so much that at the end, he wanted to make sure no one misunderstood him that he was not forbissing tongues: but everything has its proper place in edifying the church.

In continuing debunking the false teaching of tongues as a prayer language: How does the Holy Spirit speak?

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So the words are not directly from the Holy Spirit as He speaks what He hears.

How was it before His resurrection?

Matthew 10:19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So once again: the mootless point of the Holy Spirit needing to say anything to God the Father or to the Son since He is only relaying what He hears from God the Father and the Son.

So where does this misconception comes from? From errant modern Bibles regarding Romans 8:26-27. New International Version below:

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

It is no wonder why believers do not see the error of tongues as a prayer language when errant modern Bibles pave the way to support such false teachings.

From the NIV: we read that the Holy Spirit does make intercessions directly Himself and with wordless groans thus implying sound is being made: but a grammarical error has been made in verse 27: how can the "he" that searches our hearts and be the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit: be the Spirit that intercedes for the saints and in according to the will of God also? The "he" has to be seperate from us in searching our hearts and seperate from the Spirit in knwoing the mind of and thus the conclusion cannot be referencing the Spirit as being this pronoun "he".

The King James Bible has the correct translations, maintaining the pronoun "he" in verse 27 of what other modern Bibles had changed out in error to "the Spirit":

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Here: by His grace and by His help only in understanding His words: the Holy Spirit is the means by which intercession is being made and with groanings which cannot be uttered, hence no sound is being made at all for this intercession. So then the reader is left with the question of how this intercession is being made as it is answered in verse 27: the "he" that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit is Jesus Christ as it did conclude in according to the will of God which is what?

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Do we have any other reference that proves that the "he" that searches our hearts is Jesus Christ? Yes:

Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men....... 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So the King James Bible has the correct translations as verse 27 explains how this intercession is being made as the reference to "itself" implies that the Holy Spirit is the means by which Jesus Christ intercedes for us by Jesus searching our hearts and knowng teh mind of the Spirit thus no sound need be uttered and why God the Father knows what we are going to pray before we even ask.

 

[Enow]

Is the phenomenon of tongues that comes without interpretation real? Yes. Is it of God? No.

Believers were warned not to believe every spirit but test them. The line of discernment given is that greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.

Wizards, mediums, and voodooists seek after familiar spirits and they have this tongue which is of the world that comes with no interpretation.

Isaiah 8:19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Now if God is reconciling the world to Himself through the Son: then we can see why there is no invitation nor any other calling in seeking after the Holy Spirit to receive again just to speak in tongues.

My neighbor across the street was reading her Bible one day when as she testified, the Holy Spirit came over her and she began to speak in tongues. She did not test the spirits, but allowed the event to chnage her testimony as to when she was saved because she declared that was the moment she was saved as she got it all at once.

Then I had asked her what she was reading in her Bible that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant, but she went on to explain that she went to her pastor to inquire what had happened to her because she was a believer before. Her pastor pointed to Acts ( which I will assume Acts 2 as when the disciples were waiting around for the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit to come ) and thus that was the end of it as she changed her testimony as to when she was saved.

Then she testified how others at her church had similar experiences, but she rolled her eyes at this while she was telling me as implying it was incredulous to her.

The Lord led me to tell her that she did not test the spirits as the spirit misled her in chnaging her testimony as to when she was saved. It is no wonder why such false teachings goes around in the churches for people to seek after the Holy Spirit for a sign of tongues to know that they are saved.

Even Joyce Meyers has a similar experience of the "Holy Spirit" coming over her as she began to speak in tongues as well: but she interpret that incident as God's anointing: as if that is seperate from receiving the Holy Spirit at salvation: and declared that this was God's anointing of calling her into the ministry.

Fortunately: no minister out there thinks they need that experience as a confirmation that God called them into the ministry. I haven't heard that false teaching, but then again: I reckon such an apostate guantlet would be heard more in the minster circle than among the congregation "if" it exists.

Same experience: same tongues but believers are just going with the flow: not testing the spirits nor discerning them by the word of God in what these spirit of error is leading them to say. They are just believing every spirit that comes.

And it is not just tongues they receive when seeking the Holy Spirit to fall on them again: but other signs and wonders as well like in the "holy laughter movement".

But the underlying theme of all of these apostate movements and fase teachings is for those that are already believers to receive the Holy Spirit again seeking after a sign.

1 Corinthians 14: 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Signs follow believers: believers are not to seek after a sign.

Matthew 12:39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

So let us remember the one hope of our calling as there is no other calling:

 

[reba]

Enow,

9 - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.

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Please take a few minutes to read the TOS. Thanks reba

 

[Enow]

Enow,

9 - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.

• 
• Announcements
• Terms of Service (ToS)

Please take a few minutes to read the TOS. Thanks reba

Thank you for your grace:

I had thought after I had read the agreement in that scroll window at registration that I had known all the rules that I was agreeing to, but I reckon not. I should have known better since other forums have done the same in clarifying some more ground rules. Sorry.

May the Lord help me keep my posts to a respectable length.

 

[Enow]

Four points to ponder regarding tongues that comes without interpretation to be used privately like in a prayer closet.

#1. If the whole church is not to speak in tongues les someone comes in and see this and think them mad: then how can someone escape such solitary judgment when someone comes on to him or her praying in tongues?

#2. If God knows what we are going to ask before we even pray: what need does the Holy Spirit has to say anything?

#3. If Satan imitates God's gift: then tongues without interpretation cannot be God's gift because Satan was doing that kind of tongues before God's gift of tongues of other men's lips came.

#4. If God is to recocnile the world to Himself through the Son: in calling those in the world that seek after familiar spirits in babbling tongues like wizards, mediums, and voodooists, how can they abstain from all appearances of evil to show repentance if they are still doing the same babbling tongues they were doing before when they were in the occult?

Believers were warned not to believe every spirit but test them. That means even the elect can be seduced and deceived if possible: but God is able to rescue the godly out of temptations and reserve the unjust for the day of judgment.

It is time for believers that have these tongues that comes with no interpretation to go to Jesus in prayer and ask Him for the wisdom they need to discern the spirits ( because there can be no sensation of receiving the Holy Spirit again) and shun the tongues that comes with them.

 

[patience7]

=Enow;568898]Four points to ponder regarding tongues that comes without interpretation to be used privately like in a prayer closet.

#1. If the whole church is not to speak in tongues les someone comes in and see this and think them mad: then how can someone escape such solitary judgment when someone comes on to him or her praying in tongues?

1st and 2nd Corinthians were written to reprove wrong doctrine or wrong practices. Everyone in the church were speaking in tongues all at the same time without interpretation, such as goes on in some churches today. (14:23) He gives the correct way tongues should be handled in v27 - If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course (or in order); and let one interpret. There is no edification for the church if the tongues are not interpreted.

#2. If God knows what we are going to ask before we even pray: what need does the Holy Spirit has to say anything?

By your reasoning - if God knows what we are going to ask before we even pray; why should we pray.

#3. If Satan imitates God's gift: then tongues without interpretation cannot be God's gift because Satan was doing that kind of tongues before God's gift of tongues of other men's lips came.

This I don't know about - Is there scripture that says Satan uses tongues as counterfeit? I do know that "no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit". (1 Corinthians 12:3)

#4. If God is to recocnile the world to Himself through the Son: in calling those in the world that seek after familiar spirits in babbling tongues like wizards, mediums, and voodooists, how can they abstain from all appearances of evil to show repentance if they are still doing the same babbling tongues they were doing before when they were in the occult?

Don't know about this either. :

Believers were warned not to believe every spirit but test them. That means even the elect can be seduced and deceived if possible: but God is able to rescue the godly out of temptations and reserve the unjust for the day of judgment.
It is time for believers that have these tongues that comes with no interpretation to go to Jesus in prayer and ask Him for the wisdom they need to discern the spirits ( because there can be no sensation of receiving the Holy Spirit again) and shun the tongues that comes with them.

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church" (14:4) in the same manner - the church is edified with speaking in tongues when it is interpreted (14:5).

 

[Webb]

Tongues were of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit which gifts have served their purpose and are now done away.

 

[Nacho]

Tongues were of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit which gifts have served their purpose and are now done away.

I suppose healing and prophecy are done away with too huh?

 

[patience7]

Tongues were of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit which gifts have served their purpose and are now done away.

May I have the chapter and verse that implies that tongues have served their purpose and are now done away? If you are speaking of 1 Corinthians 13:8 - then with the same reasoning prophecy and knowledge are done away also.

 

[Enow]

By your reasoning - if God knows what we are going to ask before we even pray; why should we pray.

The point of reference was to show the absurdity for the Spirit of God to be praying to God the Father or to the Son of God if God knows before we even ask in prayer. The fact that the Holy Spirit will only speak what He hears: then that means God was speaking back to Himself through the Holy Spirit to act like an echo, and so that is what scriptures paints the false teachings of tongues as a prayer language to be.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Matthew 10:19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Kind of redundant then for the Holy Spirit needing to "pray" anything to the Father or to the Son, therefore I submit that tongues as being used as a prayer language because it cannot be interpreted is proof that this tongues is not of God.

If tongues interpreted is for our edification, then the available scriptures should be our heart's desire, and not revelling in seeking tongues that comes with no interpretation.

2 Timothy 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[Webb]

Hi Patience7
Yes I believe the scriptures teach (not from I Cor. 13 alone ) that the miraculous gifts of knowlege, patience as well as tongues have served their purpose and have now passed away.

 

[patience7]

=Enow;568962]The point of reference was to show the absurdity for the Spirit of God to be praying to God the Father or to the Son of God if God knows before we even ask in prayer. The fact that the Holy Spirit will only speak what He hears: then that means God was speaking back to Himself through the Holy Spirit to act like an echo, and so that is what scriptures paints the false teachings of tongues as a prayer language to be.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Speaking in tongues in our private prayer life is for our edification. Even Paul prayed in the Spirit - For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (1 Corinthians 14:14,15)

Matthew 10:19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Kind of redundant then for the Holy Spirit needing to "pray" anything to the Father or to the Son, therefore I submit that tongues as being used as a prayer language because it cannot be interpreted is proof that this tongues is not of God.

The verses above are not talking about speaking in tongues. This was not available until the day of Pentecost. The above verses are talking about God giving you words to speak when witnessing to others. But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. In other words - God's got your back - He will tell you what to say via the Spirit within you.

If tongues interpreted is for our edification, then the available scriptures should be our heart's desire, and not revelling in seeking tongues that comes with no interpretation.

Tongues that are interpreted are for the edification of the church which Paul admonished the Corinthians for not doing. Speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the Spirit within. I seek to please God and if He tells me through His word that speaking in tongues is for my edification; then I will pray with the spirit so that I may be edified.

2 Timothy 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Yes, we are to study to show ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of truth. Vain babblings - empty sounds, sounds containing nothing - I wouldn't put speaking in tongues in this category.

 

[patience7]

Hi Patience7
Yes I believe the scriptures teach (not from I Cor. 13 alone ) that the miraculous gifts of knowlege, patience as well as tongues have served their purpose and have now passed away.

I see.

I will say that I consider the following as "manifestations" of the Spirit not gifts as 1 Corinthians 12:7 calls them just before listing them: word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing (this is the only manifestation that is a "gift" because healing is a gift from God), working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, kinds of tongues; and interpretation of tongues

To manifest is to make known, to show forth that which we have received within. All these manifestations give the believer power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8

So since tongues have ceased; all have ceased? When?

 

[Enow]

Speaking in tongues in our private prayer life is for our edification. Even Paul prayed in the Spirit - For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (1 Corinthians 14:14,15)

But the reference you had used proved that tongues cannot be a prayer language because it is not fruitful as being edifying to oneself unless someone interpret it which is what Paul was praying for to have that understanding.

1 Corinthians 14:13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

The verses above are not talking about speaking in tongues. This was not available until the day of Pentecost. The above verses are talking about God giving you words to speak when witnessing to others. But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. In other words - God's got your back - He will tell you what to say via the Spirit within you.

The point of the reference was signifying how the Holy Spirit speaks: as in what He hears: that He speaks, and so when we speak whethor it be our native tongue which was teh referene in Matthew 10th chapter was for or by the gift of tongue in other men's lips as pertaining to the gift at and after Pentecost: the Holy Spirit is speaking as per whatever words He hears to speak:

So then tongues as being used as a prayer language is redundant if the Holy Spirit speaks what He hears from God.

Tongues that are interpreted are for the edification of the church which Paul admonished the Corinthians for not doing. Speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the Spirit within. I seek to please God and if He tells me through His word that speaking in tongues is for my edification; then I will pray with the spirit so that I may be edified.

Tongues that are not interpreted would only be for other men of foreign tongue to hear and to understand: they may not believe what they hear: but that is what tongues are for: tongues that cannot be interpreted and rationalized as being a prayer language is not scripturally supported.

Paul spoke for what purpose the manifestation of the Spirit was for: to profit the body withal: and tongues as listed is followed by the interpretation of that tongue: tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift: that was why Paul exhorted prophesy over all spiritual gift because it stands alone to edify as a gift.

1 Corinthians 12:7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

In context: the admistration of the manifestations are to profit the body of Christ: so when Paul says when he speaks in tongues as edifying himself: he expounds further that when so doing: it is unfruitful even to himself which is why he prays that someone may interpret.

Thus tongues as a prayer lnaguage does not edify oneself and thus tongues cannot be used as a prayer langauge as it must comes with interpretation to even be understood and be fruitful to the one speaking in tongues.

Yes, we are to study to show ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of truth. Vain babblings - empty sounds, sounds containing nothing - I wouldn't put speaking in tongues in this category.

I would put using tongues as a prayer language in that category. It is vain.

I would rather pray in my language, knowing what I had prayed for so that when Jesus answers my prayer, I can give thanks and glory to Him in His name.

John 14:13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

 

[patience7]

=Enow;568985]But the reference you had used proved that tongues cannot be a prayer language because it is not fruitful as being edifying to oneself unless someone interpret it which is what Paul was praying for to have that understanding.

Here is what I quoted: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

1 Corinthians 14:13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

v12b seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church - v13 - so when someone speaks in a tongue let him pray that he interpret in order that the church be edified. Then Paul says that if he prays in a tongue it is his spirit praying but he doesn't understand it - but does he stop. . . .no. . .he will pray in a tongue and he will pray with his understanding also, etc.

The point of the reference was signifying how the Holy Spirit speaks: as in what He hears: that He speaks, and so when we speak whethor it be our native tongue which was teh referene in Matthew 10th chapter was for or by the gift of tongue in other men's lips as pertaining to the gift at and after Pentecost: the Holy Spirit is speaking as per whatever words He hears to speak:
So then tongues as being used as a prayer language is redundant if the Holy Spirit speaks what He hears from God.

Already explained that the manifestation of speaking in tongues was not available at the time those verses were written so then those verses are not about speaking in tongues.

Tongues that are not interpreted would only be for other men of foreign tongue to hear and to understand: they may not believe what they hear: but that is what tongues are for: tongues that cannot be interpreted and rationalized as being a prayer language is not scripturally supported.

I don't see any scripture saying that is what tongues is for. Yes, tongues as a prayer language must be supported by scripture - its all there in black and white.

Paul spoke for what purpose the manifestation of the Spirit was for: to profit the body withal: and tongues as listed is followed by the interpretation of that tongue: tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift: that was why Paul exhorted prophesy over all spiritual gift because it stands alone to edify as a gift.
1 Corinthians 12:7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
In context: the admistration of the manifestations are to profit the body of Christ: so when Paul says when he speaks in tongues as edifying himself: he expounds further that when so doing: it is unfruitful even to himself which is why he prays that someone may interpret.
Thus tongues as a prayer lnaguage does not edify oneself and thus tongues cannot be used as a prayer langauge as it must comes with interpretation to even be understood and be fruitful to the one speaking in tongues.

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 12:7

v12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so Christ is also. verses 15-23 Then talks about how each member in the body has a function and that each function is needed to operate the body to its full potential.

Paul - I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding,. . . (14:18,19)

I would put using tongues as a prayer language in that category. It is vain.
I would not say that praying in tongues is vain since God says it edifies the one speaking (14:4). (Strong's concordance: edifieth - Gk word - oikodomeo - promotes growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue; to grow in wisdom & piety) I want to grow spiritually.

I would rather pray in my language, knowing what I had prayed for so that when Jesus answers my prayer, I can give thanks and glory to Him in His name.
John 14:13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Again - I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
All this is just turning into "vain repetition" so until something new comes forward that's it for me. :waving

 

[Chris]

praying in tongues is good I do regular in prayer after i pray normal. nothing wrong with it its real and biblical and enjoyable.

 

[Enow]

What you had quoted was out of context of what Paul was saying as he was expounding on verse 1 as to why the gift of prophesy was the gift to seek among all spiritual gifts, and then Paul went on to verse 2 to explain why by comparing the singular gift of prophesy against the singular gift of tongues as he even went on throughout the entire chapter proving that tongues by itself cannot edify the assembly as the tongue speaker should pray that it may be interpreted:

Paul even expounded on that point in regards to tongues edifying self that it was unfruitful even to himself as he did not understand it, thus this same tongues mentioned in verse 2 is the same tongue mentioned throughout the chapter as needing interpretation as it was of other men's lips.

So when Paul said that in verse 2 as tongues edifying self: he was only comparing between the two gifts in regards to the topic of why the gift of prophesy was the gift to seek even over the gift of tongues for the edifying of the church. Throughout the chapter: that self same tongue that edifies self is unfruitful even to Paul as he did not understand it, and this he was saying that his own tongue by itself does not edify him at all: thus tongues is not a stand alone gift even for the tongue speaker. Tongues is to be followed by interpretation.

 

[Webb]

Hi Patience7

Paul in the last verse of I Cor.12 also refers to them as "gifts".