Topics that most churches and the forums dont like to addres

[shad]

They wanted freedom from the British monarchial rule - the freedom to rule their own country. The British only give up colonies (at least back then) via a military defeat. I'm sure the Americans would have tried diplomacy first - but that wasn't the British's strong point.

You are missing my point Nick, what I am saying is that the military will exist no matter what because they dont believe in God. But Christians don't have to rely on the military to have freedom in Christ. That's the most important for Christians, freedom in Christ, not worldly freedom. The military is in all over the world. The military is of this world, not of God.

 

[Nick]

They wanted freedom from the British monarchial rule - the freedom to rule their own country. The British only give up colonies (at least back then) via a military defeat. I'm sure the Americans would have tried diplomacy first - but that wasn't the British's strong point.

You are missing my point Nick, what I am saying is that the military will exist no matter what because they dont believe in God. But Christians don't have to rely on the military to have freedom in Christ. That's the most important for Christians, freedom in Christ, not worldly freedom. The military is in all over the world. The military is of this world, not of God.

I agree that we should have our priorities in heavenly freedom. But that does not mean that everyone in the military is not a Christian, nor does it mean that it the military are not useful. I'm guessing you're against voting?

 

[jasoncran]

They wanted freedom from the British monarchial rule - the freedom to rule their own country. The British only give up colonies (at least back then) via a military defeat. I'm sure the Americans would have tried diplomacy first - but that wasn't the British's strong point.

You are missing my point Nick, what I am saying is that the military will exist no matter what because they dont believe in God. But Christians don't have to rely on the military to have freedom in Christ. That's the most important for Christians, freedom in Christ, not worldly freedom. The military is in all over the world. The military is of this world, not of God.

I agree that we should have our priorities in heavenly freedom. But that does not mean that everyone in the military is not a Christian, nor does it mean that it the military are not useful. I'm guessing you're against voting?

actually shad we tried to send peace envoys to the king george for yrs, 100yrs before him in fact, all were ignored. read the book common sense by paine, and he goes over that.
persons were forced into serving the aglican church in virginia, thus the idea of the amendment one of the constitution was thought of.

 

[shad]

I'm guessing you're against voting?

I don't vote.

 

[Nick]

I'm guessing you're against voting?

I don't vote.

So are you against Christians voting?

I'm guessing the answer is no. This stems from the idea that we are to distance ourselves from all things that are in this world. I'm guessing this is where many of your ideas come from. There is a difference between living in this world and promoting Christ (with something like a vote) and living of this world.

 

[shad]

I'm guessing you're against voting?

I don't vote.

So are you against Christians voting?

I'm guessing the answer is no. This stems from the idea that we are to distance ourselves from all things that are in this world. I'm guessing this is where many of your ideas come from. There is a difference between living in this world and promoting Christ (with something like a vote) and living of this world.

I can take it or leave it. I dont vote because it will not make any difference who gets to be elected. Politics are of this world and His followers are not of this world.

I can serve and worship God no matter who gets to be elected.

 

[Nick]

I can take it or leave it. I dont vote because it will not make any difference who gets to be elected. Politics are of this world and His followers are not of this world.

I can serve and worship God no matter who gets to be elected.

That's the problem with America - people don't think or don't care about politics, and then don't vote, andl ook what happens - someone like George Bush gets voted in. And people wonder why the US is going downhill. Votes can and do make a difference.

Mate, the internet is of this world.

 

[jasoncran]

some said that bout obama, as i do!

hmm. lol he lies about the arizona immigration law, i heard him do it! we cant arrest someone over the appearance of being an"illegal" they have to break a law, then the cop can ask for the id. its called unlawful search and seizure.

surely a havard lawyer knows this basic right.


btw voting machines and a certain state's(Florida) supreme court lawfully gave the the election to bush.in 2000. the voting machines had a lot of problems.thus the need to recount again and again.

 

[shad]

Mate, the internet is of this world.

Yes, Jesus also says use worldly wisdom for the kingdom of God. We can use the Internet to spread the Truth. No matter what this world will be I can still worship God and spread Jesus. No matter who gets elected I can still worship God. It does not make any difference to Jesus' followers.

 

[Nick]

Mate, the internet is of this world.

Yes, Jesus also says use worldly wisdom for the kingdom of God. We can use the Internet to spread the Truth. No matter what this world will be I can still worship God and spread Jesus. No matter who gets elected I can still worship God. It does not make any difference to Jesus' followers.

Use your vote for the kingdom of God. Ask Christians in China how their freedom to practice Christianity is going. I have a friend who's family is not allowed to come back into China or the government will kill them because they practised a religion different from the state religion.

 

[shad]

Use your vote for the kingdom of God. Ask Christians in China how their freedom to practice Christianity is going. I have a friend who's family is not allowed to come back into China or the government will kill them because they practised a religion different from the state religion.

Jesus' followers can serve God wherever they are. If they cannot come back, that's God's will, they should reach out to people wherever they are. Many servants are powerfully worshiping God in persecuted countries. That's God's power. No one can stop His servants from serving and worshiping God.

 

[Nick]

Use your vote for the kingdom of God. Ask Christians in China how their freedom to practice Christianity is going. I have a friend who's family is not allowed to come back into China or the government will kill them because they practised a religion different from the state religion.

Jesus' followers can serve God wherever they are. If they cannot come back, that's God's will, they should reach out to people wherever they are. Many servants are powerfully worshiping God in persecuted countries. That's God's power. No one can stop His servants from serving and worshiping God.

They're not Christian.

It's not exactly easy to worship God in many countries. Why not use the freedom you have for God? I think many of us take it for granted.

I'm beginning to see that this could become a fruitless discussion with you. However, in the meantime, this topic is good reading - Should Christians vote?

 

[Nick]

Concerning the topic above, I think this post by Jeff makes some great points:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38265&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p462336

Wait a second guys...

Your actually making a case for us NOT to vote?... BTW, that's the worst example of scripture I've seen in awhile... Just because Scripture says xy and z, doesn't mean it means xy and z. If that's the case, I think if your a "true" christian, then you wouldn't have any eyes left. (mt 5:9)

As Christians, we are supposed to be a force for good on this earth, and as such, why shouldn't we vote with the best Christian values and intentions we poses for living on this earth, now? Jesus spoke to meeting the needs of people, here, now more than he spoke of the afterlife. In one parable, he even goes as far as to say that one greedy man who built bigger barns was killed... why? Because hunger was a real issue. A fleshly issue! And this guy built bigger barns to store his grain while those around him died of starvation. I disagree MEC and C. God does care about us in this life and how we treat each other in this life.

God does rule over the USA, and as such, he has granted us the privilege to vote. Don't waste that talent.

Yes, God does put rulers over the nations, but often, he does so through the actions of man. Are we praying for a better Christian nation? If so, then God empowers us to be the solution to those prayers. It's like, have you ever prayed for something and then bam, here comes another person that comes along and is an answer to that prayer? My point? Often, God uses people to be the conduit for His Glory, even when those people may not be the most godly people around. A quick review of the OT makes this very clear (The story behind Cyrus would be one of many, many examples that we could reference)

If you don't think that we should vote, then perhaps you shouldn't be praying for our nation and your talent shall be revoked. (Mt. 25 and the parable of the talents)

 

[shad]

It's not exactly easy to worship God in many countries. Why not use the freedom you have for God? I think many of us take it for granted.

Jesus cherishes Christians who are in persecuted countries. They are the elect. Most of us in free countries are in trouble because we are living such an easy Christianity. I believe we are in such easy places because we cannot handle tough situations. God will not give us tough assignment too hard for us to handle.

 

[Nick]

It's not exactly easy to worship God in many countries. Why not use the freedom you have for God? I think many of us take it for granted.

Jesus cherishes Christians who are in persecuted countries. They are the elect. Most of us in free countries are in trouble because we are living such an easy Christianity. I believe we are in such easy places because we cannot handle tough situations. God will not give us tough assignment too hard for us to handle.

Or perhaps God gave us the free country to spread His Word freely. I do think you have a point, however we should also consider a free country as a blessing. But to the point that you take it that we shouldn't vote and not have a free society I cannot understand.
I'm assuming you're in the US, shad?

 

[shad]

however we should also consider a free country as a blessing.

I dont know about that. Following Jesus is not supposed to be peachy. I believe Christians who are in persecuted countries are blessed in disguise. We are already receiving rewards materially.

But to the point that you take it that we shouldn't vote and not have a free society I cannot understand.

Because Jesus' followers are not of this world. Politics are of this world. It is very clear to me.

I'm assuming you're in the US, shad?

Yes, I am US citizen.

 

[Nick]

Well I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion at the moment. I cannot see this going anywhere. The position that you take up I just cannot see the logic in, I'm sorry.

 

[shad]

Well I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion at the moment. I cannot see this going anywhere. The position that you take up I just cannot see the logic in, I'm sorry.

I dont understand why you cannot understand this simple logic.

Anyway, it was nice talking to you.

 

[Nick]

Well I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion at the moment. I cannot see this going anywhere. The position that you take up I just cannot see the logic in, I'm sorry.

I dont understand why you cannot understand this simple logic.

Anyway, it was nice talking to you.

Well I guess all any of us understands is how we cannot understand how the others' logic works. :D

At least you don't get too heated. It was pleasant. I hope we agree on other things.

 

[shad]

Well I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion at the moment. I cannot see this going anywhere. The position that you take up I just cannot see the logic in, I'm sorry.

I dont understand why you cannot understand this simple logic.

Anyway, it was nice talking to you.

Well I guess all any of us understands is how we cannot understand how the others' logic works. :D

At least you don't get too heated. It was pleasant. I hope we agree on other things.

You are an easy one to talk to civilly. You are a gentle soul.