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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Topics that most churches and the forums dont like to addres
- Thread starter shad
- Start date
jasoncran
Member
not, but theytruth, i heard this, from one of them.
i wish i could worship christ in the open like in america.
so i guess he should just not desire that to you.
i guess being beaten or killed is freedom?
if it is the way it is then we have to accept that,but be thankful that we dont here yet.
the verse you seek is this i find myself to be content wherewith i find myself in.
i have looked death mano y mano, and lived by the grace of god, i dont want nor desire it.
living around death and fear makes one have pysch problems. you paint a romantic picture of suffering, i dont, wont. it sucks, one must look to the lord for the strenght, but that doesnt mean that one should be happy like we got beat up.
yes, its a honor to suffer for the lord, but that doenst mean we should be sadistic about it.that is what the word used for happy(hesed in hebrew) means blessed. meaning that you suffer now, but think of the joy that your reward will be in heaven for this, as that will help carry you through the pain.
would you leap for joy when you lose you wife to cancer? and shout and clap and dance and sing over her death?
i doubt that shad.
i wish i could worship christ in the open like in america.
so i guess he should just not desire that to you.
i guess being beaten or killed is freedom?
if it is the way it is then we have to accept that,but be thankful that we dont here yet.
the verse you seek is this i find myself to be content wherewith i find myself in.
i have looked death mano y mano, and lived by the grace of god, i dont want nor desire it.
living around death and fear makes one have pysch problems. you paint a romantic picture of suffering, i dont, wont. it sucks, one must look to the lord for the strenght, but that doesnt mean that one should be happy like we got beat up.
yes, its a honor to suffer for the lord, but that doenst mean we should be sadistic about it.that is what the word used for happy(hesed in hebrew) means blessed. meaning that you suffer now, but think of the joy that your reward will be in heaven for this, as that will help carry you through the pain.
would you leap for joy when you lose you wife to cancer? and shout and clap and dance and sing over her death?
i doubt that shad.
jasoncran
Member
when it is to save anothers life and theres no other way to avoid it within reason.if the person that is this enemies is trying to harm my person or others. ie rape, maim, murder, and so forth. i have haters on my job and online. all i have prayed for.again i repeat, if the person is a threat to life, and so forth.should we shad just sit back and allow evil to rule and reign over the world, and not try to stop it. ie violent crimes, roque states, etc.shad said:
you dont have the satifisactory answer to me for you havent thought it out, i have. i have been in that spot and by the grace of god,in combat i never took a life. i can respect those that cant serve, but it doenst sit to well when those that claim as you do, and judge those that want to make the world a safer place
i love when these anti-war nuts will go an watch a violent movie and protest the wars war we are in.
or with hollywood, make those type of movies. i hate violent movies that are violent just for entertainment sake,ie execessive gore and horror. i dont have a bloodlust, i avoid a fight when i can where i can, in fact shad i dont own a person gun, i may never buy one. but i believe in gun rights, and those that can use them responsiblity should if they choose to be able to buy one.
btw out of all that, you choose knowing my reponse the command to loves one enemies.
interesting, i'm not so shallow in my walk that i dont know what i'm talking about nor soo foolish that i think i cant grow either.
G
GojuBrian
Guest
Shad,
You are dillusional(among other things). Instead of thanking soldiers like you ought, you mock and persecute them.
"Blame the military...blah blah blah!!! They're just killers,blah blah blah" HOGWASH.
Sounds great until you consider the sacrifices they take that I mentioned that you conveniently skipped over.
We love our enemies. By attacking or threatening to kill someone, you kill yourself.
Let's take a look and see what scripture says.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
Hey, whaddya know? Soldiers have the greatest love one can! Whodda thunk?
Not gonna argue anymore Shad. If you cannot accept truth I don't know what to tell you.
Here's some reading for you.
http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/demy.html
http://www.martinrothonline.com/MRCC28.htm
Who was the first Gentile baptised by Peter? Cornelius.
What did he do? He was a soldier. doh!
You are dillusional(among other things). Instead of thanking soldiers like you ought, you mock and persecute them.
"Blame the military...blah blah blah!!! They're just killers,blah blah blah" HOGWASH.
Sounds great until you consider the sacrifices they take that I mentioned that you conveniently skipped over.
We love our enemies. By attacking or threatening to kill someone, you kill yourself.
Let's take a look and see what scripture says.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
Hey, whaddya know? Soldiers have the greatest love one can! Whodda thunk?
Not gonna argue anymore Shad. If you cannot accept truth I don't know what to tell you.
Here's some reading for you.
http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/demy.html
http://www.martinrothonline.com/MRCC28.htm
Who was the first Gentile baptised by Peter? Cornelius.
What did he do? He was a soldier. doh!
GojuBrian said:
by killing them?
Let's take a look and see what scripture says.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
Hey, whaddya know? Soldiers have the greatest love one can! Whodda thunk?
You kill your enemies at the same time. Jesus' soldiers don't kill any one.
Ok, take care.
Mysteryman
Member
shad said:GojuBrian said:
by killing them?
Let's take a look and see what scripture says.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
Hey, whaddya know? Soldiers have the greatest love one can! Whodda thunk?
You kill your enemies at the same time. Jesus' soldiers don't kill any one.
[quote:1ud4a4qa]Not gonna argue anymore Shad.
Ok, take care.[/quote:1ud4a4qa]
--------------
Hi shad
On the contrary shad. When we come back with Christ to this earth, we are the soldiers of Christ when we come back. And I can not tell you how many are going to die by our spiritual hands.
Here now, we are not considered soldiers of Christ. We now are ambassador's for Christ. We put on the whole armour of God, that we may take a stand against the whiles of the devil. This is defence, not offence. But this has nothing to do with our military of this nation.
You need to seperate the spiritual from the literal. Here upon this earth, there are going to be wars and rumors of wars. As a nation , in order to keep the peace that we have, we need a literal army/military to show the evil people of this world, that we are willing to defend our nation and the peace we have. This has nothing to do with Christ and our walk spiritually. Our enemies are not of this world shad. Speaking spiritually. But there are enemies that are of this world, who would persecute people and torture people and kill people, if it were not for countries like the USA that will stand against these evil people.
Our enemies, are the enemies of God, spiritual enemies.
Try and keep your focus upon the difference between the two.
Bless
jasoncran
Member
shad, in said defense of family members from rape, death, maim. will you
stand by
run if possible with family
if no escape, attempt to stop
if in the attempt to stop you kill the person. what then. they may have knife drawn or gun and gun goes off and they kill themselves.
or stabb themselves.
this is why i ask you that really think your position, as one cant just say in ignorance that one cant kill in self defense in these situations if its unavoidable.either he kills you, or you but some luck stop him. but theres also the third in rolling for the control of the gun it goes off and he or you gets shot.
even with good disarming agianst a gun or knife the possbility of the attacker or you getting shot or stab is still there.
stand by
run if possible with family
if no escape, attempt to stop
if in the attempt to stop you kill the person. what then. they may have knife drawn or gun and gun goes off and they kill themselves.
or stabb themselves.
this is why i ask you that really think your position, as one cant just say in ignorance that one cant kill in self defense in these situations if its unavoidable.either he kills you, or you but some luck stop him. but theres also the third in rolling for the control of the gun it goes off and he or you gets shot.
even with good disarming agianst a gun or knife the possbility of the attacker or you getting shot or stab is still there.
Mysteryman
Member
n
Hi shad
We live in an unique country. We have an all volunteer military. No one has to become a soldier in our armed forces.
As a christian, one can decided for themselves as to whether or not they would like to join the military or not. When I was 18 and now being 62, I look back and wish I had the same choice they have today. I was against the Vietnam war, so if it were today, I would not join the military. But back then, we had the draft. Our Gov. forced young men into the military to fight for our country. Today that is not the case.
Today, I am against the war in Afgan. and I was against the war in Iraq. However, if this was during the time of pearl harbor, I would join the military in the blink of an eye, because of what Japan did. That was justified !
If you are asking if it is wrong for a christian to join the military, I would say, no it is not. Our country , as a country, needs a defence , or else we would be overtaken by other evil people. And none of us would want that to happen. Everything in life is spiritual in some way or another. And for the most part, you could trace these evil people back to some sort of religious fanatics. You can trace many wars in the OT back to either paganism, or Judaism. Many wars were start by God when God told Israel to go to war. Some wars God sent unto Israel, because Israel would not listen to God. At other times, God told Israel to go to war and he himself encouraged these wars. At times, Israel was one mean fighting machine, especially when God backed them up. Then they never even came close to loosing. Thousands died on both sides by the sword.
What Jesus was talking about, when he was talking to his disciples, was not about a physical war, but a spiritual one. He told Peter to put up his sword, because he was not training Peter and the other disciples to fight a physical war, but a spiritual one. Our nation and our military does not stand for God, it stands for our country only. Nothing christian about our military whatsoever. Our military is there to defend our country, and show other peoples and countries, that we are a great military might, which should deter any country to think about going to war against us. Without a military, we would be like ducks in the water without wings. We would become an easy target for the slaughter.
When one joins the military, they have to realize that there is a possibility of kill or be killed. These people are our nations enemies, and could also be enemies of God in a round about way. But if a christian joins the military, this should not deter one's faith in God, and doing the will of God. By faith, a christian could get a desk job, or even a job within the military that supports our troups, such as medical or technical support. None of which has these people holding or shooting a weapon.
I myself was in a supply division when I served in 1967 - 1970. I had a weapon assigned to me, and even had it in my hands lock and loaded because we had an orange allert at our base in Thailand. I was prepared to shot it, if necessary. And I was raised with guns on the farm. We went hunting alot. I know what it is to kill animals. I am thankful I never had to pull the triger. But if the enemy would have breached our fence, I would not have hesitated to pull the triger. And I can pick off a fly off of a cow at 200 yards, that is how good of a shot I am. If I can see the enemy and they mean to kill me and my fellow soldiers. Trust me shad, they would fall dead before any of my fellow soldiers would fall, if I were there ! I have no idea what my fellow soldier beliefs are as far as their christian or non-christian beliefs. But I would defend them , even if they believed in Buddhism, the soldiers by my side. Which by the way, some were, because we had Thai soldiers with us, and that was their primary belief.
Physical war shad, and spiritual contests are two different things. Keep the spiritual in the spiritual and understand the physical wars for what they are - physical, even though they might have spiritual connotations behind them.
Bless
shad said:
Hi shad
We live in an unique country. We have an all volunteer military. No one has to become a soldier in our armed forces.
As a christian, one can decided for themselves as to whether or not they would like to join the military or not. When I was 18 and now being 62, I look back and wish I had the same choice they have today. I was against the Vietnam war, so if it were today, I would not join the military. But back then, we had the draft. Our Gov. forced young men into the military to fight for our country. Today that is not the case.
Today, I am against the war in Afgan. and I was against the war in Iraq. However, if this was during the time of pearl harbor, I would join the military in the blink of an eye, because of what Japan did. That was justified !
If you are asking if it is wrong for a christian to join the military, I would say, no it is not. Our country , as a country, needs a defence , or else we would be overtaken by other evil people. And none of us would want that to happen. Everything in life is spiritual in some way or another. And for the most part, you could trace these evil people back to some sort of religious fanatics. You can trace many wars in the OT back to either paganism, or Judaism. Many wars were start by God when God told Israel to go to war. Some wars God sent unto Israel, because Israel would not listen to God. At other times, God told Israel to go to war and he himself encouraged these wars. At times, Israel was one mean fighting machine, especially when God backed them up. Then they never even came close to loosing. Thousands died on both sides by the sword.
What Jesus was talking about, when he was talking to his disciples, was not about a physical war, but a spiritual one. He told Peter to put up his sword, because he was not training Peter and the other disciples to fight a physical war, but a spiritual one. Our nation and our military does not stand for God, it stands for our country only. Nothing christian about our military whatsoever. Our military is there to defend our country, and show other peoples and countries, that we are a great military might, which should deter any country to think about going to war against us. Without a military, we would be like ducks in the water without wings. We would become an easy target for the slaughter.
When one joins the military, they have to realize that there is a possibility of kill or be killed. These people are our nations enemies, and could also be enemies of God in a round about way. But if a christian joins the military, this should not deter one's faith in God, and doing the will of God. By faith, a christian could get a desk job, or even a job within the military that supports our troups, such as medical or technical support. None of which has these people holding or shooting a weapon.
I myself was in a supply division when I served in 1967 - 1970. I had a weapon assigned to me, and even had it in my hands lock and loaded because we had an orange allert at our base in Thailand. I was prepared to shot it, if necessary. And I was raised with guns on the farm. We went hunting alot. I know what it is to kill animals. I am thankful I never had to pull the triger. But if the enemy would have breached our fence, I would not have hesitated to pull the triger. And I can pick off a fly off of a cow at 200 yards, that is how good of a shot I am. If I can see the enemy and they mean to kill me and my fellow soldiers. Trust me shad, they would fall dead before any of my fellow soldiers would fall, if I were there ! I have no idea what my fellow soldier beliefs are as far as their christian or non-christian beliefs. But I would defend them , even if they believed in Buddhism, the soldiers by my side. Which by the way, some were, because we had Thai soldiers with us, and that was their primary belief.
Physical war shad, and spiritual contests are two different things. Keep the spiritual in the spiritual and understand the physical wars for what they are - physical, even though they might have spiritual connotations behind them.
Bless
jasoncran
Member
the medics when they are by themselves and not attached to the a line unit do carry weapons and are allowed to do so per the geneva convention of the 1948. the only person that cant carry a weapon at all is the chaplain as he or she has the assistant to defend her or him..
theres no for lack of better word. romeo echo and you know the rest in mm. in these newer wars, as haji attacks all bases from with the base or outside
i recall a chowhall being blown up in iraq by one of the hired hajis.
theres no for lack of better word. romeo echo and you know the rest in mm. in these newer wars, as haji attacks all bases from with the base or outside
i recall a chowhall being blown up in iraq by one of the hired hajis.
Mysteryman
Member
Quote shad : "So your point is that it is ok to kill your physical enemy?
That does not make sense at all."
-------------
Hi shad :
According to what shad ? When you make a blank statement like this, that has no biblical reference to support your comments, I am left speechless myself.
That does not make sense at all."
-------------
Hi shad :
According to what shad ? When you make a blank statement like this, that has no biblical reference to support your comments, I am left speechless myself.
Mysteryman said:According to what shad ? When you make a blank statement like this, that has no biblical reference to support your comments, I am left speechless myself.
Jesus says to love your enemy. You are making it complicated just like trinitarians are making Jesus is Son of God making it complicated.
You dont love your enemy by killing them. The military kills your enemies.
All Christians are Jesus' soldiers because we are fighting against satan on a daily basis. But Jesus' followers are not physical soldiers because the military involves killing our enemies.
HisSheep
Member
Oh Boy… This is a heated topic, isn’t it?
The thread started out as a list of things that the church doesn’t like to address, but the issue of Christians serving in the military has taken the spotlight.
I have a theory about this. Once I mused to a friend that a Christian is called to be a complete pacifist. I developed a scenario in which a saved family of five are accosted by a man with a gun who states his intention to kill the whole family. What does the ideal Christian do? My gut tells me that, being secure in their salvation, they should submit to be killed. I’m not sure I could do that mind you, but that’s the behavior that Christ modeled.
Do the math… The family is already saved. The would-be murderer is presumably not saved. He may become saved however, after witnessing the faith of the family who submits to be murdered. In this way, the family is being martyred for Christ. So, on a personal level, we are to be pure pacifists. Personal martyrdom convinces people of Jesus while national martyrdom (a pacifist nation) accomplishes nothing – or worse.
Now, about the military; I think that Christians may proudly serve in the armed forces. This is not a personal endeavor, but a State endeavor. The role of the U.S. in the world scheme is to stand as an example of liberty for the world to follow. Of course, we have abdicated our role as of late :verysad , but still… The notion is that once it could be shown that a greater number of people could live prosperously under liberty than under any other system, that other countries would follow.
Also, our founders were largely Christian. They didn’t seek to establish a theocracy, though. They believed that evangelism worked best in a libertine environment and I agree with them.
It is important to note that the U.S. government, by design, is intended to serve one singular purpose: to protect our creator-granted rights. Here is a bit from The Declaration of Independence stating as much:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
So to sum it up: The best a country can do to further the gospel is to maintain internal liberty. To carry this to an international level, the best a country can do is be an example to the world of how well that liberty actually works. If, as a result of the U.S. model, another nation(s) adopts libertine government, then they too become fertile ground for the gospel.
Here, here?
-HisSheep
The thread started out as a list of things that the church doesn’t like to address, but the issue of Christians serving in the military has taken the spotlight.
I have a theory about this. Once I mused to a friend that a Christian is called to be a complete pacifist. I developed a scenario in which a saved family of five are accosted by a man with a gun who states his intention to kill the whole family. What does the ideal Christian do? My gut tells me that, being secure in their salvation, they should submit to be killed. I’m not sure I could do that mind you, but that’s the behavior that Christ modeled.
Do the math… The family is already saved. The would-be murderer is presumably not saved. He may become saved however, after witnessing the faith of the family who submits to be murdered. In this way, the family is being martyred for Christ. So, on a personal level, we are to be pure pacifists. Personal martyrdom convinces people of Jesus while national martyrdom (a pacifist nation) accomplishes nothing – or worse.
Now, about the military; I think that Christians may proudly serve in the armed forces. This is not a personal endeavor, but a State endeavor. The role of the U.S. in the world scheme is to stand as an example of liberty for the world to follow. Of course, we have abdicated our role as of late :verysad , but still… The notion is that once it could be shown that a greater number of people could live prosperously under liberty than under any other system, that other countries would follow.
Also, our founders were largely Christian. They didn’t seek to establish a theocracy, though. They believed that evangelism worked best in a libertine environment and I agree with them.
It is important to note that the U.S. government, by design, is intended to serve one singular purpose: to protect our creator-granted rights. Here is a bit from The Declaration of Independence stating as much:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
So to sum it up: The best a country can do to further the gospel is to maintain internal liberty. To carry this to an international level, the best a country can do is be an example to the world of how well that liberty actually works. If, as a result of the U.S. model, another nation(s) adopts libertine government, then they too become fertile ground for the gospel.
Here, here?
-HisSheep
jasoncran
Member
as such soldier that scenerio wont work for me in the total family thing ,as that is allowing evil to escape unpunished.
if it happens that way, ok but lets not plan our deaths. as a soldier who is married if i did that, then what good am i to the country? or any other as soldier with family do live on base.
i am a guardsmen, in war not all of it each and every day is guns blazin, no most of it is shear boredom, i wake up do my assigned job, no enemy found, off shift once relieved, go to sleep or talk to family or friends via the internet if near a base, if out on a mission the local nintendo ds, dvd player and bible help pass the time.
that is how it was for my platoon in war, i was on a different type of thing as i got to befriend muslims and was able to show then indeed and action mercy and grace and assistance. i helped some muslims when i could. a grown man(devout muslim) cried when i left. that is what i will die knowing that i didnt kill the enemy in country, but i helped a muslim man see that we evil americans werent so evil after all.
if it happens that way, ok but lets not plan our deaths. as a soldier who is married if i did that, then what good am i to the country? or any other as soldier with family do live on base.
i am a guardsmen, in war not all of it each and every day is guns blazin, no most of it is shear boredom, i wake up do my assigned job, no enemy found, off shift once relieved, go to sleep or talk to family or friends via the internet if near a base, if out on a mission the local nintendo ds, dvd player and bible help pass the time.
that is how it was for my platoon in war, i was on a different type of thing as i got to befriend muslims and was able to show then indeed and action mercy and grace and assistance. i helped some muslims when i could. a grown man(devout muslim) cried when i left. that is what i will die knowing that i didnt kill the enemy in country, but i helped a muslim man see that we evil americans werent so evil after all.
Pard
Member
Let's redirect this back to the OP, and stop hating on the military.
I attend an Assemblies of God church. AOG is Pentecostal.
Ever Sunday we talk about the military and our government. My pastor, and everyone in my church, is very proud of our soldiers and we never forget them in anything that we do. The pastor is very biblical in his preaching about soldiers.
No one in my church is divorced, actually. I can say that confidently, as my church is all of 30 people.
Shoot, we were talking about how we need to obey the Word of God in every aspect of our lives just last Sunday!
I have personally talked to the pastor about this, however it has never come up in a sermon. I feel it has never been brought up in a sermon because my church, despite being AOG, is very much about the local flock, and there is little or no hypocrisy in my church.
Well, I don't get this one. We are Pentecostal. We believe in the Trinity, why would we be anything but defensive of our beliefs in a Trinity? In fact, this is a very biased point here, Shad, because you are forcing that the Trinity is wrong. So, yes, I supposed we would be the ostracizing, just as we ostracize the pagan religions...
Every day.
Everyday
I attend an Assemblies of God church. AOG is Pentecostal.
shad said:
Ever Sunday we talk about the military and our government. My pastor, and everyone in my church, is very proud of our soldiers and we never forget them in anything that we do. The pastor is very biblical in his preaching about soldiers.
No one in my church is divorced, actually. I can say that confidently, as my church is all of 30 people.
Shoot, we were talking about how we need to obey the Word of God in every aspect of our lives just last Sunday!
I have personally talked to the pastor about this, however it has never come up in a sermon. I feel it has never been brought up in a sermon because my church, despite being AOG, is very much about the local flock, and there is little or no hypocrisy in my church.
Well, I don't get this one. We are Pentecostal. We believe in the Trinity, why would we be anything but defensive of our beliefs in a Trinity? In fact, this is a very biased point here, Shad, because you are forcing that the Trinity is wrong. So, yes, I supposed we would be the ostracizing, just as we ostracize the pagan religions...
Every day.
Everyday