TOTAL DEPRAVITY

[JLB]

I posted a whole thread.

However, because you do not understand systematic theology, you will never understand.

You do know free will was condemened as heretical?

Please show me in scripture where free will is condemned as heretical.

 

[electedbyHim]

Please show me in scripture where free will is condemned as heretical.

Free will to choose salvation is found nowhere in the Bible.

Of course you will not believe anything outside of the Bible as true either.

I am pretty certain you will not read the following about Pelagian and his heretical free will teaching the was condemned.

Some history for you...


Pelagianism is that teaching, originating in the late fourth century, which stresses man’s ability to take the initial steps toward salvation by his own efforts, apart from special grace. It is sharply opposed by Augustinianism, which emphasizes the absolute necessity of God’s interior grace for man’s salvation.

Pelagius was an eminently moral person, who became a fashionable teacher at Rome late in the fourth century. British by birth, he was a zealous ascetic. Whether he was a monk or not we cannot say, but he clearly supported monastic ideals. In his early writings he argued against the Arians but fired his big guns against the Manichaeans. Their dualistic fatalism infuriated the moralist in him.

While in Rome, Pelagius studied Augustine’s anti-Manichaean writings, particularly On Free Will. He came to oppose passionately Augustine’s quietism, reflected in his prayer in the Confessions: “Give what thou commandest—and command what thou wilt” (X, 31, 45).

When the Visigoths surged upon Rome in 410/411, Pelagius sought refuge in Africa. After avoiding an encounter with Augustine, he moved on to Jerusalem, where he gained a good reputation. No one took offense at his teaching.

Meanwhile in Africa, Pelagius’s pupil Coelestius, a less cautious and more superficial man, had pointedly drawn out the consequences of Pelagius’s teaching on freedom. Churchmen in the area of Carthage solemnly charged him with heresy. According to Augustine, Coelestius did not accept the “remission of sins” in infant baptism. Such an assertion of “innocence” of newborn babies denied the basic relationship in which all men stand “since Adam.” It was claiming that unredeemed man is sound and free to do all good. It was rendering salvation by Christ superfluous.

Augustine sent his own disciple Orosius to the East in an attempt to gain the condemnation of Pelagius. But in the East churchmen were unable to see anything more than an obstinate quarrel about trivialities. They acquitted Pelagius, a decision that infuriated the Africans, who turned toward Rome and compelled Pope Innocent I to expressly condemn the new heresy.

The keystone of Pelagianism is the idea of man’s unconditional free will and his moral responsibility. In creating man God did not subject him, like other creatures, to the law of nature but gave him the unique privilege of accomplishing the divine will by his own choice. This possibility of freely choosing the good entails the possibility of choosing evil.

According to Pelagius there are three features in human action: power (posse), will (velle), and the realization (esse). The first comes exclusively from God; the other two belong to man. Thus, as man acts, he merits praise or blame. Whatever his follower may have said, Pelagius himself held the conception of a divine law proclaiming to men what they ought to do and setting before them the prospect of supernatural rewards and punishments. If man enjoys freedom of choice, it is by the express bounty of his Creator; he ought to use it for those ends that God prescribes.

The rest of Pelagianism flows from this central thought of freedom. First, it rejects the idea that man’s will has any intrinsic bias in favor of wrongdoing as a result of the fall. Since each soul is created immediately by God, as Pelagius believed, then it cannot come into the world soiled by original sin transmitted from Adam. Before a person begins exercising his will, “there is only in him what God has created.” The effect of infant baptism, then, is not eternal life but “spiritual illumination, adoption as children of God, citizenship of the heavenly Jerusalem.”

Second, Pelagius considers grace purely an external aid provided by God. He leaves no room for any special interior action of God upon the soul. By “grace” Pelagius really means free will itself or the revelation of God’s law through reason, instructing us in what we should do and holding out to us eternal sanctions. Since this revelation has become obscured through evil customs, grace now includes the law of Moses and the teaching and example of Christ.

This grace is offered equally to all. God is no respecter of persons. By merit alone men advance in holiness. God’s predestination operates according to the quality of the lives God forsees men will lead.

Theologians often describe Pelagianism as a form of naturalism. But this label scarcely does justice to its religious spirit. Defective though the system is in its recognition of man’s weakness, it does reflect an awareness of man’s high calling and the claims of the moral law. Yet Pelagianism’s one-sidedness remains an inadequate interpretation of Christianity. This was especially so after Coelestius pushed into the foreground the denial of original sin, the teaching that Adam was created mortal, and the idea that children are eligible for eternal life even without baptism. This rosy view of human nature and inadequate understanding of divine grace was finally condemned in 431 at the Council of Ephesus.





Fig 7.1

Councils Dealing with Pelagianism

Synod of Carthage 418 Condemned Pelagianism

Council of Ephesus 431 Condemned Pelagianism

Council of Orange 592 Condemned Semi-Pelagianism

Synod of Valence 855

Concil of Trent 1545–63

Sproul, R. (2000, c1995). Faith alone : The evangelical doctrine of justification (electronic ed.) (137). Grand Rapids: Baker Books.



[1]









________________________________________

[1]Elwell, W. A., & Elwell, W. A. (1997, c1984). Vol. 1: Biographical entries from Evangelical dictionary of theology. Biographical entries from Evangelical Dictionary of Theology. (electronic ed.). Baker reference library; Logos Library System. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House.

 

[JLB]

Free will to choose salvation is found nowhere in the Bible.

I asked you to show a scripture that says free will is condemned as heresy.


Everyone must choose whether to believe in Jesus Christ or not when they hear the Gospel.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

• that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

Whoever in the world chooses to hear and believe in Him will have eternal life.

 

[electedbyHim]

I asked you to show a scripture that says free will is condemned as heresy.


Everyone must choose whether to believe in Jesus Christ or not when they hear the Gospel.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

• that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

Whoever in the world chooses to hear and believe in Him will have eternal life.

As I thought.

One cannot have a conversation with you.

Grace and peace to you my friend.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Let me know when you find the scripture that says mankind is totally depraved.


Here is a comprehensive list of scriptures that teaches us the Old Testament was filled with those who heard and obeyed God.


By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
Hebrews 11:1-12


Abel
Enoch
Noah
Abraham
Sarah


By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.

By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.

By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them. Hebrews 11:20-28


Isaac
Jacob
Joseph
Moses

And on and on and on….

Not enough time nor paper to fill up with those who obeyed God and were declared to be righteous in the Old Testament.


And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. Hebrews 11:32-38



So much for mankind being Totally Depraved in which they were incapable of obeying God.



Only those who obey Jesus Christ will receive eternal salvation.



And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

The Old Testament says over and over that believers were a faithful remnant (like the 7,000 in Elijah's day), a small minority, who hoped in the future coming of the Messiah and were sinners saved by grace, the way we are.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Because “spiritually dead” is not taught in scripture. Man is dead because he is under a death sentence. He is under the sentence of death which states “dust you are and to dust you shall return”.

“Spiritually dead” is a man made doctrine.

Ephesians 2:1-3 teaches that truth, LeviR:
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

 

[Who Me]

Now please post the scripture that says mankind is totally depraved.

Romans 3: But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

All have sinned, means that no one has obeyed God's laws.
As Paul make clear in the earlier verse;-
For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

 

[JLB]

The Old Testament says over and over that believers were a faithful remnant (like the 7,000 in Elijah's day), a small minority, who hoped in the future coming of the Messiah and were sinners saved by grace, the way we are.

Ok, but we need to use scripture to make our point.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8

So who made covenant with Abraham? This is the key.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2

Who appeared to Abraham?


God the Father or The Son?

 

[JLB]

Romans 3: But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

All have sinned, means that no one has obeyed God's laws.
As Paul make clear in the earlier verse;-
For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

Let me know when you find the scripture that says mankind is totally depraved.


4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Hebrews 11:4-35

• Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.

 

[D-D-W]

You are missing what John Wesley termed Prevenient Grace. That allows (but does not force) a person to choose.

To deny free choice runs counter to scripture which says Repeatedly to choose.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

From 1 Corinthians 6:20 "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

Prior to conversion, man is a slave of Satan. Slave does what master wants. It's Satan who is depraved not man.

 

[D-D-W]

From 1 Corinthians 6:20 "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
Prior to conversion, man is a slave of Satan. Slave does what master wants. It's Satan who is depraved not man.

Indeed. As Joshua said:

Joshua 24:15
If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

BTW - that was a COMMAND.

 

[Tenchi]

Why, when there is a Calvinist subforum, are the Calvinists on CF.net posting their erroneous doctrines on the Theology subforum? I guess they feel it necessary to proselytize which is very strange given that they believe God has sovereignly decreed that others hold soteriological views different from their own and so proselytizing Calvinists are actually proselytizing against the decree of God.

Here are much better, much more biblical and rational, soteriological systematics:

www.soteriology101.com - Provisionism.

www.evangelicalarminians.org - Armininianism.

www.reasonablefaith.org - Molinism.

 

[Who Me]

Let me know when you find the scripture that says mankind is totally depraved

A sinner is someone who has rejected God and all he represents, so a sinner is totally depraved.

A word does not have to be in scripture for us to use it.

 

[Tenchi]

Job was not totally depraved, though he was not a post-Calvary, born-again, spiritually-regenerated man.

Job 1:1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

Noah wasn't a totally depraved man, though, like Job, he wasn't a post-Calvary, born-again child of God.

Genesis 6:8-9
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

How about Daniel? He wasn't born-again. Was he totally depraved? No. Instead, God puts him on par with Noah and Job, implying that Daniel was very righteous, not totally depraved.

Ezekiel 14:14
14 even though these three men, Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only deliver themselves," declares the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 14:20
20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, says the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

These verses are part of a warning issued by God through Ezekiel, the prophet, in which God said that if Israel "trespassed grievously" (Ezekiel 14:13) against Himself even the great righteousness of Noah, Job and Daniel would not be sufficient to forestall God's wrathful punishment of Israel but would be able only to deliver the three men themselves.

King David was a "man after mine own heart" God said through the prophet Samuel (1 Samuel 13:14; Acts 13:22) but David wasn't a born-again man.

Cornelius, a Roman centurion, though not a born-again believer was still described in Scripture as,

Acts 10:2
2 A devout man, and one who feared God with all his house, who gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.

The idea of total depravity is nowhere explicitly stated in God's word. Instead, we have these examples of men who were quite the opposite without being born-again spiritually.

 

[electedbyHim]

Job was not totally depraved, though he was not a post-Calvary, born-again, spiritually-regenerated man.

Job 1:1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

Noah wasn't a totally depraved man, though, like Job, he wasn't a post-Calvary, born-again child of God.

Genesis 6:8-9
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

How about Daniel? He wasn't born-again. Was he totally depraved? No. Instead, God puts him on par with Noah and Job, implying that Daniel was very righteous, not totally depraved.

Ezekiel 14:14
14 even though these three men, Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only deliver themselves," declares the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 14:20
20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, says the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

These verses are part of a warning issued by God through Ezekiel, the prophet, in which God said that if Israel "trespassed grievously" (Ezekiel 14:13) against Himself even the great righteousness of Noah, Job and Daniel would not be sufficient to forestall God's wrathful punishment of Israel but would be able only to deliver the three men themselves.

King David was a "man after mine own heart" God said through the prophet Samuel (1 Samuel 13:14; Acts 13:22) but David wasn't a born-again man.

Cornelius, a Roman centurion, though not a born-again believer was still described in Scripture as,

Acts 10:2
2 A devout man, and one who feared God with all his house, who gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.

The idea of total depravity is nowhere explicitly stated in God's word. Instead, we have these examples of men who were quite the opposite without being born-again spiritually.

Job was not totally depraved, though he was not a post-Calvary, born-again, spiritually-regenerated man.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God, and turning away from evil.

blameless … upright … feared God… shunned evil. Cf. Job_1:8. Job was not perfect or without sin (cf. Job_6:24; Job_7:21; Job_9:20); however, it appears from the language that he had put his trust in God for redemption and faithfully lived a God-honoring, sincere life of integrity and consistency—personally, maritally (Job_2:10), and parentally (Job_1:4-5).

Job was not totally depraved, though he was not a post-Calvary, born-again, spiritually-regenerated man.

Can the unregenerated have faith in God?


Job was God's servant 1:8
Job feared God 1:9

Job 1:8 Then Yahweh said to Satan, “Have you set your heart upon My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”
Job 1:9 And Satan answered Yahweh and said, “Does Job fear God without cause?
Job 1:10 “Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
Job 1:11 “But send forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.”
Job 1:12 Then Yahweh said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand, only do not send forth your hand toward him.” So Satan went out from the presence of Yahweh.


Jobs wife told him to curse God and die, but he did not.

Job 2:9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!”
Job 2:10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the wickedly foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept calamity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

I do not see those principles in the unregenerate.

 

[JLB]

A sinner is someone who has rejected God and all he represents, so a sinner is totally depraved.

A word does not have to be in scripture for us to use it.

A sinner some who is separate from Christ.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


His sheep, who wander away from Him and become lost have returned to being separate from Him and are considered to be sinners.

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Totally Depraved is a man made term used to prop up a man made doctrine.

 

[electedbyHim]

A sinner some who is separate from Christ.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


His sheep, who wander away from Him and become lost have returned to being separate from Him and are considered to be sinners.

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Totally Depraved is a man made term used to prop up a man made doctrine.

Totally Depraved is a man made term used to prop up a man made doctrine.

So if man is not depraved, what is he?

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

I believe that "total depravity" really means "pervasive depravity," which describes the fact that every area of human life is pervaded or invaded by sin, that is, self-centeredness. Romans 1:18--3:20 is Paul's case for the total guilt that humans have as their correct verdict before our Creator-Judge. Thus, humans show some good, but their self-centeredness is the evil root of it all.

 

[electedbyHim]

I believe that "total depravity" really means "pervasive depravity," which describes the fact that every area of human life is pervaded or invaded by sin, that is, self-centeredness. Romans 1:18--3:20 is Paul's case for the total guilt that humans have as their correct verdict before our Creator-Judge. Thus, humans show some good, but their self-centeredness is the evil root of it all.

That is an interesting term to use.

Indeed, sin affects every aspect of human nature, mind, will and emotions.

Of course there are many who deny this.