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Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

Pizzaguy said:
Yea, and you then stretch that concept to what a God can be all at once and I think the trinity can make sense.

Look, non-trin people - I know it's a hard concept to grasp. I rejected it initially - but that didn't work for me either, as I read my Bible!
Click to expand...

I can’t believe there are three beings up there. I think there is just one.
 


--Elijah here:
See if this helps?
There is nothing created that Christ was not involved in [as God]. (other world's'!) The Gospel is Everlasting as with the Covenant. Everlasting in this context means 'Immortal' with no beginning or ending! Prov. talks about the 'future'! Christ playing as a lad. What was brought 'forth' was the 'plan of salvation'. The GodHead had for/ordained that Christ would become the Son. The PLAN CAME FORTH when it was pre/ordained to be brought forth.

In heaven itself the rebellion started. Lucifer was the covering cherub over the [MERCY SEAT.] (Everlasting Gospel) Under the Mercy Seat was the Ark of God, where in were Their ETERNAL Covenant. (10 Commandments) The GodHead was not in eternity taken by surprise. They knew that the PLAN OF SALVATION would be required to be BROUGHT FORTH!

Notice in Psalms 2:7 future tense.. "[I will make the decree]: the [Lord hath said unto *me], THOU ART *MY SON; [THIS *DAY HAVE I *BEGOTTEN THEE]." Surely that is clear? But what day in the future is it stated that Christ was begotten??

In Heb. 1:2 we see that .. "Hath in the last days spoken unto us by His Son, (But notice this!) ... by whom also He [MADE THE WORLDS]: (plural)

and in verse 5?? We see Psalms 2:7 is now past/tense! "For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art my Son, [THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE?]"

So the GodHead were, & always will be the GODHEAD! God the Son as we know Him became God the Son at conception by the Holy Ghost! See Psalms 139:15-16. It was the PLAN that had its beginning on 'earth', yet never was 'eternity' with out the known plan. OK??

(Latest concept of the Godhead of Christ/God & what we call the Father/God. Not God the Holy Spirit yet)
'This is He that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness..' Acts 7:3 8 '... ignorant ... And drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that ROCK WAS CHRIST.' 1 Cor. 10:1-3 in part. 'Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.' Psalms 80:1

[*NOTICE] 'Jesus Christ the *SAME YESTERDAY, and TODAY, and FOREVER. (Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant)
Be [NOT CARRIED ABOUT WITH DIVERS AND STRANGE DOCTRINES.'] Hebrews 13:8, 9. This is [the Doctrine of Christ]! Again 2 John 9-11.

'Thou, even Thou, ART LORD ALONE; Thou hast made heaven, the heaven OF HEAVENS, with ALL THEIR HOST, the earth, and ALL THINGS that are therein, ... and Thou Preservest them ALL; and the HOST OF HEAVEN *WORSHIPETH THEE. Nehemiah 9:6

... Moreover THOU leddeth them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, ...Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spaketh with them from heaven, AND GAVETH THEM RIGHT JUDGEMENTS, AND TRUE LAWS, GOOD STATUES *AND COMMANDMENTS. (plural!) AND *MADEST KNOWN UNTO THEM [THY HOLY SABBATH, (No plural!) and commandest them [precepts, statutes, *and laws, (plural) and BY THE HAND OF MOSES thy servant..' Nehemiah 9:12,14. (Deuteronomy 31:9 Moses wrote this law in a book! see following verses Deuteronomy 31:24-26 for their placement in the *side of the Ark)

And note Colossians 1:13-19 "For by Him were CREATED ALL THINGS .... AND HE WAS *BEFORE ALL THINGS ..."

AGAIN DEAR FRIEND, ETERNAL CHRIST GOD, JEHOVAH GOD, HOLY SPIRIT GOD! That IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL & THE EVERLASTING COVENANT OF THE ONE GOD, GODHEAD. (yet the Holy Spirit God has not been brought forth in this missive yet, but you can rest assure that He is GOD!)
1 Tim. 1:
[16] Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
[17] Now unto the King [eternal, immortal,] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
​
There is NO satanic doubt cast in these Inspired Words of the Godhead. They are IMMORTAL and there has never been a time when They were not!
Now lets go to the very first part of Their Word to us. We see below where Adam & Eve are to die. And that the tree of life was seen as giving Eternal Life only on CONDITION OF OBEDIENCE.
Yet, of Prime Importance was that ONLY GOD has unconditional Immortality. Pay attention to the Word of 'become 'as' one of US.'


Gen. 3:
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
(Again, as one of US! Yet, it is documented that only ..so far, that these two are Immortal! Compare Gen. 11:7 for 'US' again, Two Immortal ones!)

[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
​
And in Rev. We see that the tree of life will again be restored to the ones who will have Eternal life. They will again eat of thr Tree of Life to be conditionally Immortal. See Nahum 1:9

​

​
 
Post deleated by Elijah! Double post.
 
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Sure to your first question. I read until Titus 3:9-11 arrives! What about yourself & Gods Words here below?? But what was your point to your other remark?

Prov. 8

[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
(are you suggesting that this Lord had a beginning?)

[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
(if one is spiritually alert? This is about the Eternal PLAN! Everlasting Gospel of Rev. 14:6 + Eternal Covenant Heb. 13:20. Got that?? but just not until it was needed. Who knows how long Lucifer was around before he even fell?)

[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; (again the PLAN is Eternal!) when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
[26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, [as one brought up with him]:

(OK: pay attention! This is future for the Christ/God in PROPHECY! 'As a CHILD' after He became the Son of God at conception!!!)

and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
[32] Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
[33] Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

Psalms (Time/Frame!)

[6] Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
[7] [I will] declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, (all in one sentence of future Prophecy!) Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.



Acts 13 (And when did that DAY ARRIVE!?)

[29] And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
[30] But God raised him from the dead:
[31] And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.

[32] And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, [this day have I begotten thee].


Heb.1

[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(Eternal, preexisting! Immortal in Eternity! 1 Tim. 1:17 + 1 Tim. 6:16!)
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the [express image of his person], and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

(you got that??)

[4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he [shall be] to me a Son?

[6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

--Elijah

PS: And Pizza, yes I believe that Inspiration has Jehovah is God, and that Christ is Christ God, and the Holy Spirit is Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost God as three seperate individuals of the Immortal Family of the Godhead

 
I don't have a problem with the concept of the trinity. I just figure, Hey, it's God! It is fully within His power to be three distinct persons in unity. Why is that so hard to grasp?

The bottom line is I don't have to understand it but someday I will.....we all will.

Praise be to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!
 
WIP said:
I don't have a problem with the concept of the trinity. I just figure, Hey, it's God! It is fully within His power to be three distinct persons in unity. Why is that so hard to grasp?

The bottom line is I don't have to understand it but someday I will.....we all will.

Praise be to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!
Click to expand...
I have the same question for you. Did you even read the link I provided? Here is the link: Judaic Christian Forum - Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe
 
JudaicChristian said:
Elijah 674, the words "this day" disproves a Trinity.
Click to expand...

Kind of a scripture/less comment! And the site? it is no more than he said, she said, they said!? Who & which talk talk is one to find giving the Word of God????

Thanks, but NO thanks. I will just stick to my K.J. Bible & the number of sites that I do post on. And I am not looking for new truth regardless.

--Elijah
 
Psalms 77

[13] Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?
[14] Thou art [the God] that doest wonders: thou hast declared thy strength among the people.

So: This is the Doctrine Of Christ in just more of its fullness. 2 John 1:9-11



1Cor.10

[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that [[spiritual Rock that followed them:]] and that Rock was Christ.
(and yes, surely, this is before Christ came to earth as the Second Adam, as Christ/God/Man. See Psalms 1:7 on to Heb. 1:1-5)

Acts 7

[38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
And verse 55 states that Stephen was 'filled with the Holy Ghost'!

Take note of Neh. 9:6 first..

[6] Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and [[the host of heaven worshippeth thee.]]
[7] [[Thou art the LORD the God,]] who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;

Now note verses 12-14 ibid. on down for who this Christ was as Paul above was Inspired to pen!..

[12] Moreover thou leddest them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, to give them light in the way wherein they should go.
[13] Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
[14] And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
[15] And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promisedst them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.
[16] But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their necks, and hearkened not to thy commandments, ..'

(take a pause there & consider your 'hardened necks'?? Rev. 17:1-5 and all kinds of Jude's 'WINDS' of satan's trash/heep [doctrines]!)

+ Exod. 32
[15] And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
[16] And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
(and this is supposed to be passed by?? Two tables, the first four are our REQUIRED DUTY to God Alone & the next six are our Duty to mankind. Matt. 22:35-40 And Rom. 13 has only the last six documented!)


OK: Back on Topic! CHRIST IS GOD of the Godhead, FACT! Exod. 33

[17] And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
[18] And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
[19] And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
[20] And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
(yet Christ God has a face as in Jehovah God's Image! Gen. 3:22)

[21] And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
[22] And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
[23] And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

OK: Jehovah God & Christ God's [IMAGE] has a FACE, a HAND + HIND PARTS. Both are God of the United Godhead. And the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit DOCUMENTS that HE has not an Image, but defines Himself as Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. When we read that God is a Spirit, it is Holy Spirit God.

--Elijah
 
If the Father spoke a word is it a word or the Word ? :) If the Word proceeded out of the Father, would that Word be God too ?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 
If the Father has His own Spirit , would that Spirit proceed from His person towards us ?

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:
 
Cornelius said:
If the Father has His own Spirit , would that Spirit proceed from His person towards us ?

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:
Click to expand...
Yahshua is "a" god, and Yahwah is a Holy Spirit. Yahwah has many name titles. Did you read the link?
 
JudaicChristian said:
Yahshua is "a" god, and Yahwah is a Holy Spirit. Yahwah has many name titles. Did you read the link?
Click to expand...

No I did not. But I am just asking some simple questions :) I am not a trinitarian at all. But I also do not believe in the Oneness doctrine. The Bible is very clear on this issue, but we first have to loose our doctrinal viewpoints before we can see it.

You will notice that most people will tell you its a difficult concept to understand. Its because they are trying to understand something that is not in the Bible. The truth is less complicated and very easy to understand.
 
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