Bible Study Trinity Evidence All False

[Vic C.]

And since we are quoting Isaiah...

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

 

[Squeakybro]

awisherof
You still dont get it. If Matt says anything it is scripture. Matt is scripture not what it talks about. Jesus knew what to put in the new testament. Jesus brought over everything that we need, and left out everything we dont need. If it isnt in the new testament it isnt scripture. If you believe anything in the old testament that isnt in the new testament you could fall from grace.

Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

 

[Elijah message]

I thought this was interesting, it is from another site:

__________________

2Sa 22:2 and he said: The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
(JPS) The God who is my rock, in Him I take refuge; my shield, and my horn of salvation, my high tower, and my refuge; my savior, Thou savest me from violence.

Psa 31:2 (31:3) Incline Thine ear unto me, deliver me speedily; be Thou to me a rock of refuge, even a fortress of defense, to save me.
Psa 31:3 (31:4) For Thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for Thy name's sake lead me and guide me.

Psa 61:2 From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed: lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
Psa 61:3 For thou hast been a shelter for me, and a strong tower from the enemy.
Psa 61:4 I will abide in thy tabernacle forever: I will trust in the covert of thy wings. Selah.

Psa 62:2 He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved.

Psa 94:22 But the LORD is my defense; and my God is the rock of my refuge.

Isa 26:4
(JPS) Trust ye in the LORD for ever, for the LORD is GOD, an everlasting Rock.

(Is 48:21-22 NEV) "They did not thirst when he led them through the deserts; he made water flow for them from the rock; he split the rock and water gushed out."

(1 Cor 10:2-5 NEV) "They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. {3} They all ate the same spiritual food {4} and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."

(John 4:10 NIV) "Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.""

2 Sam 22:32-33 NIV) "For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? {33} It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect."

(Psa 18:31-33 NIV) "For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? {32} It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect. {33} He makes my feet like the feet of a deer; he enables me to stand on the heights."

(Exo 33:18) "Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."
(Exo 33:20-23 NIV) "But," He said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see Me and live." {21} Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. {22} When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. {23} Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.""

Notice here, that Moses has to be hid in the cleft of the rock to be able to see God and live. It is that because our life is hid in Christ, we may someday see God in all His glorious splendor and live!

(Isa 44:7-9 NIV) "Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come-- yes, let him foretell what will come. {8} Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." {9} All who make idols are nothing, and the things they treasure are worthless. Those who would speak up for them are blind; they are ignorant, to their own shame."

Of course, this goes on and on and on like this, so we may know who is our Rock, but some men choose the man Peter to be their rock - I just do not understand it, but i understand what the Lord says about it - selecting the doctrine of man over Him.

Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
Deu 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.


Pisa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

--------------------

Grace, Peace, and Mercy unto you and yours

Sail2awe

 

[awisherofgrace]

Squeaky,

No pinhead, you don't get it...

Mathew said Isaiah 9 is about Christ.

1. Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

So accept it or stop pretending to believe in scripture.

 

[Elijah message]

If one would just study Cain in Gen. 4:7, they would see that Cain is doing again what is being taught of the 'serpent', in the verse! The BOTTOM LINE of satans 'lie' is, that the LAMB OF GOD IN NOT EVERLASTING GOSPEL. Now: whose DESIRE did Cain now possess?

---Elijah

 

[Squeakybro]

awisherofgrace
No pinhead, you don't get it...

I said
Oh you misguided emotional wanttobe. There are so many beginners that dont know their shooting themselves in the foot when they present the Word with anger or emotions.

Rom 8:5-8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
(NKJ)

 

[Eve777]

what John saw and what John heard could be different.

Je mendie votre pardon, mais Squeak...,,, when you are in the spirit, it is a realm where things are not as we understand them in an earthly way. What he saw and what he heard would have no reason to be different. He heard what he heard and it was related to what he was seeing.


1 Timothy 3:16 -Paul Said Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

John 20:28 -Thomas called Jesus God.
"And Thomas answered, and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Colosians 2:8,9 -Paul said Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
"…Christ. For in him dwelleth all of the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

Titus 2:13 -Paul said Jesus was God.
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior, Jesus Christ."

Exodus 3:14 -God identifies Himself to Moses by calling himself "I AM." Twice Jesus refers to Himself as the "I AM." Those around him knew exactly what he was saying and they were greatly offended.

"Jesus said unto them, Verily verily, I say you, before Abraham was, I am. Then they took up stones to cast at him …" (John 8:58, 59a)

"Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them I am he. As soon as he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground." (John 18:4b, 5, 6)

Isaiah 44:6 -In Rev 1:11, Jesus says He is the first and the last. Isa. 44:6 shows that the one who is "first and the last is actually God. "Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the Lord of host: I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is not God."
Zechariah 12:10 -God uses the first person (“meâ€Â) and the third person (“himâ€Â) to describe Himself as the one who will be pierced.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for HIM, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.


There are so many scriptues showing Jesus as God, I just cannot list the all....

Both God and Jesus are called our "Savior." Here are verses calling God our savior.

"… I am He, before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord and besides me there is no savior." (Isaiah 43:10b, 11)

"… And there is no God else beside me, a just God and Savior; there is none beside me." (Isaiah 45:21b)

 

[Vic C.]

Personal insults like pinhead and wannabes WILL stop right here, right now. Thank you.

 

[Squeakybro]

Eve777 you said
:
what John saw and what John heard could be different.


Je mendie votre pardon, mais Squeak...,,, when you are in the spirit, it is a realm where things are not as we understand them in an earthly way. What he saw and what he heard would have no reason to be different. He heard what he heard and it was related to what he was seeing.


I said
I'm sorry Eve we dont see eye to eye. But it is possible the voice and what he seen were different. But what your implying is that Jesus is wrong in these verses. That the Father is NOT the only true God as Jesus has said here.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

And your implying that Jesus is wrong here when He said that He and I have the very same Father and the very same God.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(KJV)

 

[Eve777]

But what your implying is that Jesus is wrong in these verses. That the Father is NOT the only true God as Jesus has said here.

I would never imply Jesus is wrong :o ...I do not have a death wish...thank you very much....

Would you please explain to me, what you mean by the above statement? I haven't a clue why you said that.

 

[Vice]

I said
I'm sorry Eve we dont see eye to eye. But it is possible the voice and what he seen were different. But what your implying is that Jesus is wrong in these verses. That the Father is NOT the only true God as Jesus has said here.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

And your implying that Jesus is wrong here when He said that He and I have the very same Father and the very same God.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(KJV)

There you go again countering one Bible verse with another. You must believe that the Bible contradicts itself, because whenever someone brings up a verse stating that Jesus is God in the flesh, you basically state "Well you're wrong. Look at what it says in THIS part of the Bible."

Eve777 gave some great verses that specifically state that God became flesh in the person of Jesus. I even believe that many of those verses have been stated to you ad nauseum/ ad infinitum. The duty does not lie upon her OR any of us to explain these verses because most of us agree that they claim Jesus was God in the flesh; and with that foundation, we can definitely explain any verses in which Jesus speaks of himself and his father separately.

The responsibility, however, lays upon YOU to explain the verses presented to you which claim that Jesus is God in the flesh.

--Was Jesus lying when he said that he would raise up his own body?
--Was the Apostle John lying when he said "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us?"
--Was the Apostle Paul lying when he said that Jesus was "God manifested in the flesh?"

Countering those verses by saying "Yeah, but it says here _____" is insufficient. It implies that there are contradictions in the Bible that you are unwilling to deal with. So you should either deal with them or throw out the entire New Testament just like you've thrown out the entire Old Testament.

 

[Squeakybro]

Eve right here in verse three. Jesus says that the Father whom He is praying to is the "only true God. Now if you say that Jesus is God then you are either denying what Jesus says here. Or your just plain disagreeing with what Jesus says here.

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)


Now On this verse Jesus says that His Father is my Father. And that His God is my God. But if Jesus is God then His God is not my God, He would be my God.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

 

[Squeakybro]

Vice you said
The duty does not lie upon her OR any of us to explain these verses because most of us agree that they claim Jesus was God in the flesh; and with that foundation, we can definitely explain any verses in which Jesus speaks of himself and his father separately.

I said
Well it is true you are with the majarity, and I am with the manarity.

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(NKJ)

John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
(NKJ)

 

[Elijah message]

If one would just study Cain in Gen. 4:7, they would see that Cain is doing again what is being taught of the 'serpent', in the verse! The BOTTOM LINE of satans 'lie' is, that the LAMB OF GOD IN NOT EVERLASTING GOSPEL. Now: whose DESIRE did Cain now possess?

---Elijah

PS: Victor. It is interesting reading these 'posts' and trying to see the fine Christian character some 'few' are 'not' portraying here, huh? Again, I believe that who their 'desire' is for, clearly comes through?? Now: I ask you, who would believe their thread's message?

 

[Squeakybro]

Elijah you said
It is interesting reading these 'posts' and trying to see the fine Christian character some 'few' are 'not' portraying here, huh? Again, I believe that who their 'desire' is for, clearly comes through?? Now: I ask you, who would believe their thread's message?

I said
I hope your discernment skills are better than your presentation. The one that starts the thread has an obligation to answer all questions.

1 Pet 3:15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
(NKJ)

The ones criticizing have an obligation to warn them only twice and then leave.

Titus 3:10
10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
(NKJ)

the thread starter has an obligation to be gentle for afew replies then they are not to cast their pearls before the swine that want to argue. Because those who want to argue will only trample the message under their feet.

Matt 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
(NKJ)

 

[Elijah message]

Personal insults like pinhead and wannabes WILL stop right here, right now. Thank you.

******
Elijah here:
Hi, OK: Back to your message.

_____
[You said:]

I hope your discernment skills are better than your presentation. The one that starts the thread has an obligation to answer all questions.

1 Pet 3:15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
(NKJ)

The ones criticizing have an obligation to warn them only twice and then leave.

Titus 3:10
10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
(NKJ)

the thread starter has an obligation to be gentle for afew replies then they are not to cast their pearls before the swine that want to argue. Because those who want to argue will only trample the message under their feet.

Matt 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
(NKJ)

_____

me again: Are you trying to tell us that you are the dog & swine, or what??? Perhaps Vic misunderstood Pauls fine tuning of words, huh?

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
me again: Are you trying to tell us that you are the dog & swine, or what??? Perhaps Vic misunderstood Pauls fine tuning of words, huh?

I said no wonder you dont understand you always try to turn everything around backwards. It cant be me, I'm the one that started the thread.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Squeakybro,

I believe earlier in this thread I stated that the view of the original church and church history was that Jesus is fully God, a part of the Trinity. Here is proof:

Athanasian Creed (around 400 AD - about 1,600 years ago)

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

It should so be noted that the word "catholic" here is not the Roman Catholic church, but is the "universal Christian church."

 

[Vice]

Look everyone, there really isn't any point in responding to Squeaky's threads. I, for one, can't believe that I jumped in again. He has been doing this on every online Christian forum of which he is a member.

Recognize anything from below?


http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread ... ge=1&pp=16

http://www.kingdomlife.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f18fdd4207

http://66.148.41.31/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000030.html

http://www.cog7.org/ubbpub/Forum13/HTML/000074.html

http://tfebbs.7times.us/php2/viewtopic. ... ce54e479b9

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message? ... 1066655098

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message? ... 1059342798

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/archiv ... 38835.html


Many of them are virtual word-for-word copies of this very same thread.

It's time to stop adding fuel to the fire. Or as Jesus would say, it's time to stop "casting our pearls before swine."

 

[Elijah message]

This is satans hot topic today on ALL forums! It started with Cain's offering of NO EVERLASTING LAMB OF GOD. Cain switched leaders from Obedience to dis/obedience! (Christ in faith to satan) But it is the CENTERFOLD of the Gospel (EVERLASTING!) that satan hates!! [Christ Himself]. The Robe of Christ Righteousness! The Righteousness of Christ! The EVERLASTING GOSPEL!! Rev. 14:6 [[[CHRIST IS THE GOSPEL FOR ALL ETERNITY!]]] Think! The Holy Spirit is to UPLIFT CHRIST. As man?? Hardly, but as GOD/MAN!

Now as history started out, so does it end. (the Eccl. verses) When ALL EYES are off of the true God Christ??? Peter SINKS!! John told us that this [IS THE CENTERFOLD of the DOCTRINE OF CHRIST!] 2 John 7-11.

This satan knows well. This is all that he needs to do, an man 'sinks' in eternal loss. Ask yourself: How can one be saved if there is a 'fruit' sacrifice of the True Lamb of God, as not being God Eternal????

So satan know that he has a very short time left, and Christ stated that we are to know this too! For Christ' End time Words said, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, [because he knoweth that he hath but a short time]." Rev. 12:12 So satan knows that all that he can take with him into Obadiah 16 will find them dying in the lake of fire suffering for their own condemnation, and that he will not have to bear their sufferings! Luke 12:47-48 - Leviticus 16:5-10.

The END IS IS SIGHT!! This makes one happy :fadein: and sowerful, : huh?
Surely that does not need to be explained?

---Elijah