True Acts 2:38 Christians will not go through the Great Tribulation

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

So we see the resurrection of the dead associated with the end of the age and the great tribulation.

The Resurrection comes before the Rapture.

No, you had it right the first time.

The time of the tribulation as Jesus said, a time this earth has not seen, the same one mentioned in Danial 12:1 is at that time, we are delivered, and a resurrection event follows. We still have to wait around for the tribulation though.

But, the dead in Christ raised first, then us, then tribulation, then we come back with the Lord, grab the rest that did not get it like we did, and everyone lives happy ever after.

some will try to downplay Christ's warning of the false Christs as if His warning is for Jews only :

False Christ is what? don't we have those today? It's someone claiming to be anointed of God to heal, and do all kinds of stuff. Christ means anointed, or Jesus Christ the anointed one and his anointing for us.

I don't know why you would try to cloud the meaning of the great tribulation, to suggest that there is no such thing, or that this event is past.

Makes no sense.

If this has happened, nobody would be here. The only other time was when God drowned every living person and most every animal on the planet but Noah and His family. This time Jesus is talking about has not happened yet, nor happed since, because it beats everything that the flood was, and the flood almost destroyed mankind.

The Holy Spirit already knew that people who thought this is past already, this great tribulation came to their rescue to get them out of error.


2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Either we missed the Earth perishing again and someone forgot to record it, or there is a time coming as Jesus said that beats anything this flood did.






Mike.

the Kjv references Jer 4 to the gap between Gen 1:1 and gen 1:2 which is aeons of time in which Lucifer sinned, fell and went back to heaven as the accuser, aka the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Jeremiah 4:22-31

King James Version (KJV)

22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
30 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.


the world became void not the world was created void

 

[farouk]

Matthew 24.21 clearly seems to refer to a unique event in world history.

 

[Brother Mike]

claiming to be Jesus to purge those who think Jesus is coming early to fly them away. they haven't come yet and notice when they come claiming to be Jesus they will have "great signs and lying wonders"

These false Christ are Angels...... because bad angels claim to be anointed of God, and they trick us into thinking there is some pre-trib rapture. They lie saying the.... Holy Spirit is removed (Like who said that here?) and what???????????

Christ means anointed......................

Jesus the Anointed...................... Jesus the Messiah.............................. Jesus the Anointed and His anointing for us.............................. I can do all things through the anointing that gives me strength........

Ok, so I will be on the lookout for these angels that are telling people they will be raptured who claim to be anointed of God, through the Lord Jesus............ Thank you for the warning!!!! I feel much safer now..............We don't have to "Fly Away!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Thank you so much for your great insight and wisdom about these bad angels................

amazing.......

Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

How can this be when the resurrection is the last day?

Nobody said anything about a Resurrection in the last day. It said blessed is they who had part in the first one. There is none mentioned but the 2nd after Jesus comes in Rev 19. JLB and I both covered this back and fourth in this thread with Deborah already. Pick one that makes the most sense, but lots of scripture were given on both sides.

It's all lined up for both positions, but you don't believe some Great tribulation is coming so you are like way off both post or pre trib beliefs. I am not sure how you would fit your belief into any Post or Pre trib belief.


Mike.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

mike

you can read of satan in the 1st and present earth and heaven age in eze 28,Isa 14,rev 12 yet he'll be destroyed (rev 20) before the 3rd earth and heaven age. satan drew down 1/3 rd of heaven by deceit which is why were here in the flesh.(Born again=born from above) the labor pains is the earth longing to be rejuvenated /delivered from this age. his evil angels didn't want to be born of woman but rather seduce them (gen 6/jude) creating the giants and God sent the 2nd and last flood to destroy them casting the angels who crated them into the Abyss waiting to be released by satan (as the Days of noe giving and taking in marriage matt 24)

satan's greatest office/role/crown will be his angels claiming to be Jesus matt 24:4-5,21-28,mark 13:5-6,19-28,luke 21:8,19-29 and him claiming to be God to purge tares away from the wheat.

no matter what one believes about end times as believers ON Jesus Christ we can all agree those found worshiping satan will not be in good standing with Jesus Christ when HE returns to see who believed His warnings as wise virgins and who defiled their garments with satan as foolish virgins to be thrown into fire .

 

[reba]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

Nobody said anything about a Resurrection in the last day. It said blessed is they who had part in the first one. There is none mentioned but the 2nd after Jesus comes in Rev 19. JLB and I both covered this back and fourth in this post with Deborah already in this very thread. Pick one that makes the most sense, but lots of scripture were given on both sides.

Mike.

No Body?
Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

claiming to be Jesus to purge those who think Jesus is coming early to fly them away. they haven't come yet and notice when they come claiming to be Jesus they will have "great signs and lying wonders"

These false Christ are Angels...... because bad angels claim to be anointed of God, and they trick us into thinking there is some pre-trib rapture. They lie saying the.... Holy Spirit is removed (Like who said that here?) and what???????????

Christ means anointed......................

Jesus the Anointed...................... Jesus the Messiah.............................. Jesus the Anointed and His anointing for us.............................. I can do all things through the anointing that gives me strength........

Ok, so I will be on the lookout for these angels that are telling people they will be raptured who claim to be anointed of God, through the Lord Jesus............ Thank you for the warning!!!! I feel much safer now..............We don't have to "Fly Away!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Thank you so much for your great insight and wisdom about these bad angels................

amazing.......

Mike.

Don't thank me thank Jesus Christ who warns us not to follow after these false Christs:

Luke 21:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.


Mark 13:5-6

King James Version (KJV)

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mark 13:19-29

King James Version (KJV)

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.



7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-5

King James Version (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?








Revelation 20:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

wow no "the"?

yep a great tribulation such as has never been nor will ever be, true Christians will endure tribulation when satan and his angels come playing religion to purge all of the tares from we the believers who refuse to worship satan:

The KJV does not say ' a great tribulation '

Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Is the church in China under great tribulation? or the Sudan do we not see the signs of coming persecution in the USA ( I pray God intervenes)


@JLB quoting KJV here

tribulation today is nothing compared to the tribulation of satan sitting on the mount claiming to be God, we who refuse to worship satan are NOT blotted out of the book of life so what does that mean for those who do worship satan?:



Daniel 7:20-22

King James Version (KJV)

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.




Revelation 13:6-8

King James Version (KJV)

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.





Revelation 3:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[JLB]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

How can this be when the resurrection is the last day?

Nobody said anything about a Resurrection in the last day. It said blessed is they who had part in the first one. There is none mentioned but the 2nd after Jesus comes in Rev 19. JLB and I both covered this back and fourth in this thread with Deborah already. Pick one that makes the most sense, but lots of scripture were given on both sides.

It's all lined up for both positions, but you don't believe some Great tribulation is coming so you are like way off both post or pre trib beliefs. I am not sure how you would fit your belief into any Post or Pre trib belief.


Mike.

I guess Jesus didn't get your memo.

Joh_6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


The Resurrection is on the last Day when Jesus returns at the end of the age, not 7 years before the last Day.

The Resurrection happens before the Rapture.


Normally, this would be all the information a second grader would need to know the Rapture is not BEFORE the tribulation.

Please Brother Mike, be reasonable.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

JLB and I both covered this back and fourth in this thread with Deborah already. Pick one that makes the most sense, but lots of scripture were given on both sides.

I can't see any scripture that supports any rapture. I just believe that the Lord will return. All evil will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

 

[farouk]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

JLB and I both covered this back and fourth in this thread with Deborah already. Pick one that makes the most sense, but lots of scripture were given on both sides.

I can't see any scripture that supports any rapture. I just believe that the Lord will return. All evil will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

@Deborah13 :

If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel, and a heavenly people waiting to meet their Lord in the air, and an earthly people in relation to the Lord's future reign on earth, then the distinctions may become more meaningful.

Blessings.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

paul never says the church is going to fly away

Then by all means teach us what Paul (the Apostle to the GENTILES) teaches us in 1 Thess 4 concerning the dead in Christ rising first and then we which are alive and remain, being caught up together to meet the LORD in the AIR.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

King James Version (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


paul tells believers not to worry as those with no hope for IF we believe Jesus rose (and we'd better) EVEN SO them will God bring with him, as jude 1:14-15 and rev 19 tells us.



the First resurrection to Jesus Christ started when He rose:


Matt 27

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


I thess 4 continued:



15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


*by who's word? the Lord's word! we can't precede (greek word used by paul) them because they are already there, no need for a Christian to wait in the grave as we rise to HIM daily in our own order

(I cor 15) as we die we partake in the First resurrection still today to Him in heaven since He ascended. why would someone think God is powerless to bring them to heaven as Stephan in acts 7?



16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


*the Lord says His coming is after the tribulation of false Christs (matt 24:29-31), paul says the lord's coming is after the working of satan (II thess2:1-12) the dead in Christ rise first daily, we who are alive and REMAIN to meet the Lord in the AER=strong's ref. #g109 breath g4151 breath=spirit when Jesus Christ returns the heavens and earth will be on fire, II pet 3 we ALL change I cor 15:49-54
paul did not use the word #3772 as sky. we shall ever be in spiritual bodies after the Lord's parousia not hoovering in the sky.

paul NEVER once says Jesus Christ's coming is before the tribulation, false prophets lie and claim paul does leading many to fall for the very coming of false Christs Jesus warns believers NOT to follow after


Matthew 24:21-31

the mistiming of the Lord's coming from post trib as HE teaches to pre trib leads many to this (purging them as tares):


21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.




wise virgins refuse to defile our garments and wait for the gathering of wheat:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

JLB and I both covered this back and fourth in this thread with Deborah already. Pick one that makes the most sense, but lots of scripture were given on both sides.

I can't see any scripture that supports any rapture. I just believe that the Lord will return. All evil will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

@Deborah13 :

If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel, and a heavenly people waiting to meet their Lord in the air, and an earthly people in relation to the Lord's future reign on earth, then the distinctions may become more meaningful.

Blessings.

First I determined what scripture says the body of Christ is and who makes up that body.
Then I determined what scripture says a Gentile was/is.
Then I determined what scripture says a Jew was/is.

Then I determined what a nation is.
Then I determined what the nation of Israel was/is.
Then I determined what a Gentile nation was/is.

Am I gentile, am I a jew, am I a Christian?
What nation do I belong to USA, Israel, Kingdom of God?

quote you "If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel"
What does scripture say is the distinction?

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

1 Corinthians 10.32

Blessings.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

JLB and I both covered this back and fourth in this thread with Deborah already. Pick one that makes the most sense, but lots of scripture were given on both sides.

I can't see any scripture that supports any rapture. I just believe that the Lord will return. All evil will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

@Deborah13 :

If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel, and a heavenly people waiting to meet their Lord in the air, and an earthly people in relation to the Lord's future reign on earth, then the distinctions may become more meaningful.

Blessings.

First I determined what scripture says the body of Christ is and who makes up that body.
Then I determined what scripture says a Gentile was/is.
Then I determined what scripture says a Jew was/is.

Then I determined what a nation is.
Then I determined what the nation of Israel was/is.
Then I determined what a Gentile nation was/is.

Am I gentile, am I a jew, am I a Christian?
What nation do I belong to USA, Israel, Kingdom of God?

quote you "If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel"
What does scripture say is the distinction?

amen sis, see rev 7 vs 1-8 is the 144000 from all tribes not just Judea (Jews) and note rev 7:9 and the last 5 verses which identified that the great multitude of saints consists of all nations all tongues and all kindreds not just Israel who make it out of the great tribulation.your exactly right in no "pre trib" rapture for Jesus Christ says our gathering is after the tribulation not before.there is no difference between the Jew and greek though many make out as if there is. either we are believers or non believers

 

[farouk]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

@Deborah13 :

If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel, and a heavenly people waiting to meet their Lord in the air, and an earthly people in relation to the Lord's future reign on earth, then the distinctions may become more meaningful.

Blessings.

First I determined what scripture says the body of Christ is and who makes up that body.
Then I determined what scripture says a Gentile was/is.
Then I determined what scripture says a Jew was/is.

Then I determined what a nation is.
Then I determined what the nation of Israel was/is.
Then I determined what a Gentile nation was/is.

Am I gentile, am I a jew, am I a Christian?
What nation do I belong to USA, Israel, Kingdom of God?

quote you "If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel"
What does scripture say is the distinction?

amen sis, see rev 7 vs 1-8 is the 144000 from all tribes not just Judea (Jews) and note rev 7:9 and the last 5 verses which identified that the great multitude of saints consists of all nations all tongues and all kindreds not just Israel who make it out of the great tribulation.your exactly right in no "pre trib" rapture for Jesus Christ says our gathering is after the tribulation not before.there is no difference between the Jew and greek though many make out as if there is. either we are believers or non believers

Matthew 24.21 seems to refer to a unique event, rather than to the general principle that the Lord Jesus referred to when He said: 'In the world ye shall have tribulation'.

His coming in power and glory is distinct from the meeting in the air when the church will be 'caught up' (1 Thessalonians 4).

 

[Deborah13]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

His coming in power and glory is distinct from the meeting in the air when the church will be 'caught up' (1 Thessalonians 4).

I believe this is speaking of the resurrection of the saints, all the saints that ever will be. Not a rapture of a part of the saints.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

@Deborah13 :

If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel, and a heavenly people waiting to meet their Lord in the air, and an earthly people in relation to the Lord's future reign on earth, then the distinctions may become more meaningful.

Blessings.

First I determined what scripture says the body of Christ is and who makes up that body.
Then I determined what scripture says a Gentile was/is.
Then I determined what scripture says a Jew was/is.

Then I determined what a nation is.
Then I determined what the nation of Israel was/is.
Then I determined what a Gentile nation was/is.

Am I gentile, am I a jew, am I a Christian?
What nation do I belong to USA, Israel, Kingdom of God?

quote you "If the person distinguishes between the church and Israel"
What does scripture say is the distinction?

amen sis, see rev 7 vs 1-8 is the 144000 from all tribes not just Judea (Jews) and note rev 7:9 and the last 5 verses which identified that the great multitude of saints consists of all nations all tongues and all kindreds not just Israel who make it out of the great tribulation.your exactly right in no "pre trib" rapture for Jesus Christ says our gathering is after the tribulation not before.there is no difference between the Jew and greek though many make out as if there is. either we are believers or non believers

Matthew 24.21 seems to refer to a unique event, rather than to the general principle that the Lord Jesus referred to when He said: 'In the world ye shall have tribulation'.

His coming in power and glory is distinct from the meeting in the air when the church will be 'caught up' (1 Thessalonians 4).

*Jesus warns the tribulation of false Christs claiming to be Him will be as such as has never been on earth or ever will be in matt 24:21-31

paul quotes Jesus in matt 24:30-31 in I thess 4:16-17. Jesus says His coming and our gathering is after the trib, paul says the lord's coming and our gathering is after the working of satan II thess 2;1-12
false prophets try to make out as if paul taught a early rapture so when the false Christs come many who follow after them will be deceived into defiling their wedding garments.

Jesus warns in matt 13:30 the tares are gathered first, not the church. paul NEVER once says Jesus Christ comes pre trib, men just claim paul does

satan tries to snare people with his lies and add on to scriptures of pre trib rapture

Matthew 24:29-31

King James Version (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Deborah13]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

1 Corinthians 10.32

Blessings.

So who is a jew, who is a gentile, who is the body of Christ?

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

1 Corinthians 10.32

Blessings.

So who is a jew, who is a gentile, who is the body of Christ?

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

The church is made up of people converted to Christ from both a Jewish and Gentile background.

Blessings.