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Bible Study Truthful Living.

I have seen what happens with some when confronted with the message of Christ and Him crucified, they retaliate, they pull away from God. They see it will cost them their lives, they are not willing to give up their life in exchange for the Christ-life.
I have had people, God fearing God loving people, sit and listen in a meeting, come to the conclusion "that is not for me."
How do I know! Because I have had them say "brother, I have always believed this or that, it's been in our family for generations, I'll believe it till my dieing day, and what you say doesn't matter."
Simple answer, Jesus is not the center, He maybe a lot of things to people, just not the center of all they are. It's a revelation, without it you are not moving.
So we have no true fellowship, if you're fellowship is based on doctrine, you have no true fellowship.
If you're fellowship is based on anything other than Christ as the life of the believer, seeing Christ in other believers, you have no fellowship.
Your still living the lie and truthful living has evaded you.
You have no true fellowship, 1 John 1:2-3,
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

I do not have to write a book on truth, we already have one.
The revelation of Jesus Christ is something that cannot be explained, the HolySpirit will not allow it. He is the teacher, only He can teach you Christ.
From this one book we know as the bible He will explain what men need to know about Jesus Christ, no man can explain it.
 
Hi Soul man. I had to chuckle a little when you wrote about "God fearing" people not wanting what the conclusion to a message was. I grew up in the State of Maine, and was the Pastor of two Baptist Churches there. Maine folk, who have their roots going back hundreds of years will admit that they are "God fearing".

My usual reply was "O good, so am I. What do you fear? It's not long before we get to the TRUTH. They weren't God fearing at all. A few of these old timers did come to believe on Jesus Christ as their Savior, God fearing? Yep!!
 
Good morning friends. Back a while ago, there were lots of discussions about abortion and public school activity of removing God, plus other arguments. Preachers here and there would be enforcing TRUTH. The wise guy press would be printing "So what is Truth?"

If you, my friends, had to answer that question, how would you answer it?
 
Chopper said:
Hi Soul man. I had to chuckle a little when you wrote about "God fearing" people not wanting what the conclusion to a message was. I grew up in the State of Maine, and was the Pastor of two Baptist Churches there. Maine folk, who have their roots going back hundreds of years will admit that they are "God fearing".

My usual reply was "O good, so am I. What do you fear? It's not long before we get to the TRUTH. They weren't God fearing at all. A few of these old timers did come to believe on Jesus Christ as their Savior, God fearing? Yep!!
Click to expand...

You have heard of the bible belt, we are in the buckle of that belt.
I was in a meeting one time and a good Hockey game broke out lol couldn't resist.
 
THE PRICE OF TRUTH is our ego-self, false-self, our fears.

Truth does not hurt.
What hurts is finding out that you were a fool to believe in something that was not true. What hurts is the experience of humiliation, or embarrassment, of being deceptive. The exposed ego story, going through its death-throws, and the fears attached to it, is what is so painful about it. For instance, most people want other people to believe in them. Through their wanting they exaggerate and used persuasion to deceive others to believe in their story. Truthfully, deep down they knew they were an impostor. Whenever the truth about them appeared they became aware of the impostor they had become. It is at that moment, of truth, they felt their ego-fear squirming and hurting. Sometimes a person will face up to the truth but in most cases the person’s ego will desperately try again to cover-up the truth.

Truth is the ticket price for the Narrow Way.
Honest true people are at times seen as trouble-makers. The actor Thomas Jay Ryan said in a film1: “An honest man is always in trouble…” Why is this so? An honest person is one that will not compromise what is true in them. They live by the principle of what is true - though perhaps not by conformity. It is the nature of any ego-collective to have a collection of untrue ideals, philosophies and the like, for an honest person to find opposition with. Any true person who does not conform to the ego-collective will find their ego being troubled by that collective. Jesus Christ’s crucifixion exemplifies the honest man in trouble.

The price of humility
Stupid, immature, or naive are some of the labels given to a person who is first seen to be too honest. Long time ago I witnessed a conversation a truthful living person being asked questions that would put any person under threat of judgement and ridicule. Yet here he was calm, gentle, and unaffected by his ego. He spoke in a language that was soft, innocent, and somewhat humiliating to hear. He spoke in words that struck deep into my heart. He was fearless because he had nothing to hide, bur exactly the opposite. He was self exposed and vulnerable to the fearful, but to him he was liberated.

A truthful living is a journey of both humiliation and liberation. The price of truth is ego deflation at depth and the reward, in simple language, is fearlessness.

The Toll gates of truth.
To live truthfully requires us to change from old nature to the new nature. Each point of change we experience some sort of barrier to changing. It always contains a level of fear. The only way to deal with fear is to face it and do what is true. It takes faith to change. Once we change, the toll gate to our own barriers open.

1 from the film Henry Fool by Hal Hartley (1998).
 
The topic of the thread is "truthful" living. In his OP, Chopper used John 8:32 to identify this Truth that we are to seek after. The purpose of this truth is to set us FREE. But to set us free from what? The following verses in John 8 identify this as being set free from being the servant of sin.

But what is truth? Before we can talk about truthful living, we have to identify and declare that truth. So far in this discussion, there has been talk of fears, and talk of ego, but as to instruction has to how it sets us free? I'll leave that for you to decide. But truth, what truth? Or which truth? There are truth's that can set us free, but there are also truth's that can lead us into bondage.

Chopper said:
Good morning friends. Back a while ago, there were lots of discussions about abortion and public school activity of removing God, plus other arguments. Preachers here and there would be enforcing TRUTH. The wise guy press would be printing "So what is Truth?"

If you, my friends, had to answer that question, how would you answer it?
Click to expand...

What is truth? The question Pilate asked of Jesus, though he did not respond. What is truth? You bring up the discussion of abortion, but what truth should we see in abortion? And does that truth set us free or does it bring us into bondage? A truth, abortion is murder, and murder has been in the world since Cain slew Abel.

According to the LAW, murder is a sin, and therefore abortion is a sin. But for some this is a truth that does not set them free, but rather brings them into bondage to sin. They use the strength of the Law to stand against abortion, and in doing so become it's servant. They are offended at the idea murder being legalized in the form of of abortion, but what drives their passions?

Murder has been in the world since Cain slew Abel, but for some abortion drives their passions, but why? If some girl on the other side of the country has an abortion, then what offense has she given to me? If I am being truthful, then that answer is none. She has given no offense to me. Unless she is a family member or relative, then what right do I have to demand justice? Shall I be offended for God over an offense not given unto me?


You also mentioned the removal of God from the public schools, and once again, many seem offended that this has been happening. But has God been taken out of schools, or has God removed the idolatry of Himsef from the schools? Thou shalt make no graven images............ And yet those who profess a love for the law seem to get angered when those idols are removed. Now we see the same happening over the civil war statues and other images. When they move onto the churches and begin tearing down the statues of Jesus, will you be angered or outraged over it? If I were to become outraged over the removal or destruction of graven images, then I could not say I have been made free.

What is truth? There is a truth that comes by the Law that brings me captive to sin; there is a truth accepted by faith that sets me free from sin. What is truth? More importantly, which truth? The truth that binds you, or the truth that makes you free?
 
What is truth?

John 18:37-38
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

For this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Everyone that is of the truth hearth my voice. My sheep hear my voice..... It is interesting to note here, that every on that IS OF THE TRUTH heareth my voice. Of the truth, is doesn't say here knows the truth, but rather is of the truth. Jesus came that he should bear witness unto the truth.

John 8:25-27
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

John 8:28-29
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice. Everyone that is of the truth heareth the voice of the Son, and heareth the voice of the Father who sent him. Everyone that is of the truth hath the Father and the Son.

Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life. Did Jesus say it, or is this what He heard from His Father?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The way, the truth, and the life. For straight is the way and narrow is the gate, and few there be that find it. The way, the truth and the life, that we may come unto the Father. That we might be set free from sin, and come before Him in the newness of Life. But the way to life involves a Truth. Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice. My sheep hear my voice and follow me. The follow Christ is to follow Him in Death, to be crucified with Him before you can be risen with Him, before you can follow on to know the Lord in Life.

The Truth that sets me free: That I am dead to the law, and sin can no more slay me.
 
Chopper said:
Too many questions. One at a time please. Thank you.
Click to expand...


Chopper, if this comment is meant for me, then please know that many of the "questions" I ask are rhetorical, It's a simple question for you to think upon, not answer. The questions I ask are more of an illustration of my thoughts, questions I would ask myself, not some inquisition of your beliefs. If something strikes you, then you are free to address it. If I have a specif question that I want you to answer, then I will identify it as such.

But as to Truth, the point I was making was there are truths that bind us and bring us into bondage, and there is a truth that sets us free.
 
Hermit said:
The exposed ego story, going through its death-throws, and the fears attached to it, is what is so painful about it. For instance, most people want other people to believe in them. Through their wanting they exaggerate and used persuasion to deceive others to believe in their story.
Click to expand...

Good message, you know without living the only life we have, we are actors. We live out this false life of a big screen actor.
Christians, if they do not understand what they are dealing with now, (as far as what was in the old sin-nature) acting becomes a lifestyle.
Have you ever been in a situation where most of the believers act exactly alike. Trained by the production manager to react to some sort of a screen play.
We feel like at times this message is just a come and go message, when you deliver the message of life, it is a life and death situation.
Religions grip is tightening and truth is coming out to the believer like I have never seen in my lifetime.
The battle rages for the mind of man, the schoolhouse and it's converging powers are converging on believers as never before.
 
Soul man said:
...you know without living the only life we have, we are actors. We live out this false life of a big screen actor.
Christians, if they do not understand what they are dealing with now, (as far as what was in the old sin-nature) acting becomes a lifestyle.
Have you ever been in a situation where most of the believers act exactly alike. Trained by the production manager to react to some sort of a screen play...
Click to expand...
I see this every time I go into town. It is so easy to get caught up into it.
The unfetted ego will run riot. They soon won't be to satisfied with just being an actor, they often fight for directorship of the play.

When most of the actors act alike, they are conforming to the majority/leader. They fear being judged as an outsider, which is exactly what a truthful person is amongst the self-deceived. Unfortunately this is the world we live in. Churches and religions are not exempt from conformity. All sorts of sub-cultures have their own particular beliefs and rules to conform to. Unfortunately most are fear-based. Most Christians fear going to hell more than loving God...well the ones I have spoken to.
Soul man said:
...We feel like at times this message is just a come and go message, when you deliver the message of life, it is a life and death situation.
Religions grip is tightening and truth is coming out to the believer like I have never seen in my lifetime.
The battle rages for the mind of man, the schoolhouse and it's converging powers are converging on believers as never before.
Click to expand...
Maybe. Yet this may not be necessarily so.
  1. Christian population, including fear-based conformity, is rising. More likely to notice the decline of faith.
  2. Religions in history has shown repeated appalling times. This time-period may just be another version, that has never been seen before. As some children believe peas come tin cans and not from pods, some will believe God comes to them from iPods and not from unconditional faith.
  3. Faith has been watered down by the ever changing definition of words. People have wider choices to believe from. The road least traveled is getting harder to follow. Unconditional faith is so conditional these days. When unconditional, beliefs which carry truth turn from a belief to obvious. In this regard God is no longer a belief but obvious, undeniable.
  4. As a Christian becomes more aware of truth, so too will be their awareness of the deceptive world they walk through. The chasm between truth and not-truth becomes clearer. No in-betweens, no half-truths (because in itself it is a deception).
 
Paul did not stand before his audience as a great raging preacher, excellent preacher, but in weakness and with much fear and trembling.
Not the fear we have been discussing, but a fear that realized he had a power to destroy them.
His message was so dynamic and addresses identity, he knew he could destroy them by their very thinking and the new identity he was bringing.
Are you getting it yet, it's a mind thing. That sounds so simple 'a mind thing. Yet it will destroy you, you're spiritual life, once you hear Christ preached there is no escape.
The hook is set, you must make a decision to reject the very person-life who makes you who you are, or follow on to know the lord.
Why would you preach such a thing I have been asked, because it is the only message that has the power to save the broken, frustrated and confused lives.
What men have always done is what Apollos did.
They have thrown a lot of light on scriptures and tried to explain "the revelation of Christ," but it is a work which only the HolySpirit can do perfectly.
Finally Paul says in, 1 Cor. 2:4,
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

He is saying, "I did not explain anything clearly when I talked to you, I did not give you any wisdom, I did not use any enticing words, but I stood before you in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Your faith cannot stand in the wisdom of man, but in the power of God.
 
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HOW TO LIVE TRUTHFULLY
Here as some thoughts on how to live truthfully, with a supporting verse.
  • Through Christ.
    • John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
  • Those who profess the truth care nothing about their opponents.
    • Philippians 1:28 without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved, and that by God.
  • Self-honesty is the way towards being truthful. The more you become true the more you will see yourself to be in error of your self-will ways.
    • Proverbs 12:17 An honest witness tells the truth, but a false witness tells lies.
  • Being truthful inspires one to do the right thing.
    • Philippians 4: 8-9 8.Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. 9.Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me--put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
  • The man of truth is doubtless!
    • 1 Kings 17:24 Then the woman said to Elijah, "Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the LORD from your mouth is the truth."
  • To live truth you won't lose yourself.
    • Proverbs 28:18 The one whose walk is blameless is kept safe, but the one whose ways are perverse will fall into the pit.
  • The real me is the loving me (from the heart), not the fearful me (from the head).
    • John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
  • It is more important to know how you see yourself truly, than care about how others see you.
    • Galatians 1:10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
  • Righteousness is faith in action, and in willingness to lose life for the Truth – as Christ did.
    • 1 Peter 3:14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened."
  • To be a blessed and fearless person is to know the truth, and creates from their knowledge, wisdom and love.
    • 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
 
Truthful living is not based on self-will, but on God's will for us and the power to carry that out.

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world_the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life_comes not from the Father but from the world.

For everything in the world... (the world is what we perceive via self-will, which is censored and determined by our fears of invalidity).
_the lust of the flesh,...(exploiting self, others, and anything else made from dust (benefiting the ego-self from the physical (visible) world).
...the lust of the eyes,...(imagining, dreaming, wishing, and even baiting what to exploit for ego-self)
...and the pride of life...(self-will run riot is playing god. Claiming all exploits as your own kingdom)
_comes not from the Father...(self-will exploits does not come from God's will. The word Father implies that we 'who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God' [Romans 8:14]. Father -- Son (Christ) -- brothers and sisters (we in Christ).
...but from the world. (self-will reality)
 
Truthful Living: sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. I am more of the slowly ilk.

I once told my recovery mentor (of 20 years sobriety), "I wish I had your wisdom and serenity", he said "Why! Do you want to be 20 years older?" Twenty years later I was asked the same question by a newcomer to recovery, I said "If I became, overnight, from who I was to how I am now, I would either die from shock, or swear that somebody gave me a brain transplant". That is how it is from old nature to new nature. it is 180 degree shift of reference.

For me, I discovered I had a better chance of living truthfully if I asked myself this question whenever I was in doudt:
"What would a truthful person think/do in this situation?" ​
Usually the first thought that came to mind was the right one, even if I feared it. Meaning, going against the grain of my old nature. I discovered that most of my answers were pointing in the opposite direction to what I normally used to think or do. For instance, instead of seeking love, just be loving. This reminds me of the prayer of saint Francis of Assisi.

My old nature was all about me, even while i thought I was loving, but in fact I was in stealthily in exploitation mode. Always seeking anything outside of me to fill the never-ending void of invalidity. All I cared about was where I was going. I was following a trail that pointed to the legend of my own mind (my self-will reality). These days, I am more aware of where I am coming from more than where I am going. Why? Because I know where I am going (truthful living) if I know where I am coming from (my truth).

One evening, after a fellowship meeting, a women I have never met, told me a message of profound truth, which took years for me to understand. She had lost her vocal cords due to cancer, and spoke with a vibrator that made her voice sound like the Daleks in Dr Who TV series. She said, "Peter, the two most important words in your recovery will be acceptance and gratitude." With that said, she turned away, and I never saw her again. She died of cancer a few weeks later.

She spoke the truth. Whenever I have no gratitude it is because there is some person, place, thing or situation that I cannot accept. It will haunt me (resentment) until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation, to be as it is.
As soon as I accept it, the resentment disappears. ​
This liberation of my resentments, creates a void which allows the truth of the matter to be revealed. That is, I am still okay, because Christ is with me in every act of faith (it takes faith to accept what our old nature does not want to accept). From this realization, through faith-led acceptance, I become grateful.
Acceptance is the key to my serenity in the Truth.​

The reason for my sharing this with you is because this world, or self-will reality, is full of resentments, fears, deceptions and anything else untrue. It is this way because of our old nature's need for validity. We end up investing in it to be true, when in fact it is not. Think about this, if you think you need something, ........(wait for it)........you really don't.

It is only our old nature (self-will) that has the self-fabricated concept of need and want. Once this is understood, then we can start practicing acceptance and becoming grateful for it. So the idea is to accept anything that creates tension in you (fear) because some person, place, thing, or situation is not going YOUR WAY (self-will). Soon as you feel a rise in tension, accept it as it is. This does not mean subservience to the world, but obedience to what is true.

A few years ago, before sunrise, somebody broke into my car, stole things, and then set fire to it. The car alarm woke me up for me to see my car ablaze. I have no insurance or money to replace the car. Use of the car to go to work and shopping, etc., ceased at that moment. I accepted it within a minutes. By 9 am I had sold the remains of the car, had it towed away, cleaned up the street from broken glass etc, walked a mile to the bicycle shop and bought a pushbike to get to work and do my shopping with. Today, I still have no car, because I really don't need it, or want it.

What I am saying is. It is okay to have things, and enjoy the things we have. The quest for a person living a truthful life is to accept the truth of the matter and move on. It's okay to replace what you lost. The thing is, can you let go of all things when it is no longer there. If you cannot, it is because you have invested heavily, like a rich man, in that person, place, thing, or situation. Remember, we are not here for the self, but for the One who sent us.

Acceptance: Romans 8:28; Job 2:10; Hebrews 12:5-7
Faith: Hebrews 11:1; 1 John 5:5; Mark 10:52; Romans 1:17
Believe - Doubtless: James 1:6; Matthew 21:21.
Truthful Living: Ephesians 3:16-17
Knowing the truth: Galatians 3:22
 
THE TRUTH IS, TRUTHFUL LIVING IS EASY
Before accepting Christ into our life, many struggled with a lack-of-faith lifestyle. Our old nature had little or no understanding of the truth behind all our personal problems and issues in life. Without the truth, we did not know how to really cope with the world we have created for ourselves (our self-will reality).

Myself, without faith in Christ, had no idea how to be patient, tolerant, forgiving, loving, listening, giving, etc. I was always operating out of fear of not being understood, respected, forgiven, loved, heard, deserving, etc. As a result I became impatient, intolerant, critical, greedy, self-centred, needy and wanting, etc.

So, why is truthful living easy, with faith in God through Christ? Because we will be content in all things.
Philippians 4:11-13; 11.I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12.I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13.I can do all this through him who gives me strength.

But how does one become content in all things? By faith in God through Christ.
But wait a minute, what does that mean? It means to trust in letting go in letting God. Let go of self-will and let God's-will take over.
Okay, but how do I trust? By taking a risk. But it is an easy risk.
All you have to do is not interfere with what is. ​
Pause your own thoughts and actions of self, and allow the truth about things to unfold.

Here are some examples:
To be patient, we wait, by doing nothing to interfere.
To be tolerant, we allow, by doing nothing to interfere.
To be forgiving, we identifying, by doing nothing to interfere.
To be loving, by giving, by doing nothing to interfere.
To listen, by focusing, by doing nothing to interfere.

To do nothing to interfere is being unconditional. Being unconditional creates self-will vacancy, to allow God's-will (the Truth) to reveal itself. That is, there is nothing to be impatient, tolerant, forgiving, to be loved, or needy about.
John 14:6; Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

Being unconditional is to be humble
2 Corinthians 12:9; But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

To allow truth to unfold.
2 Corinthians 9:8; And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
 
The carnal Corinthians operated more spiritual gifts than any other church, talked in tongues more than anybody else, were more worldly wise than anybody else. Yet they were so shady and unsanctified in their living that they were called "Corithianizers," which means prostitutors.
Paul says to them, "if I am going to preach any truth to you at all, I am going to preach the testimony of God."
Regularly I'm challenged by someone who says, "what you ought to do is preach the simple gospel to the heathen and the unsaved, preach the simple gospel to those who do not understand."
My answer is simple, we have enough simple people already.
What God did through Paul was to preach truth. He said I'm not going to talk to you as you want to hear it nor as another man would bring it to you.
I have come that you might hear the truth. I am not going to appeal to your fantasy, to your carnality, to your selfishness, or to your needs, I'm going to tell you the truth.
 
Great post Soul man.
Soul man said:
The carnal Corinthians operated more spiritual gifts than any other church, talked in tongues more than anybody else, were more worldly wise than anybody else. Yet they were so shady and unsanctified in their living that they were called "Corithianizers," which means prostitutors.
Click to expand...
Another word which connects most humans to Corithianizers is Exploiters.
Exploiting self, exploiting others, and exploiting the world for fabricating a kingdom for our self.
They are so busy exploiting they no longer see themselves.
All exploitations are for gathering riches for self. Even the homeless prides in having the best box to sleep in, and won't give it up, let alone the wealthy. The rich (poor or wealthy) are in a death-grip of fearing to lose all their exploitations for self. They identify self as the one to serve, nurture, feed, validate, protect, worship, glorify, boast, and promote.
No wonder the way is so narrow, even for Christians.
 
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