brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,218
- 892
-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
TULIP - Irresistible Grace
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,218
- 892
Thats another greek word which means the same.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 39,001
- 8,176
- Thread starter
- #43
And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw all people to Myself [Gentiles, as well as Jews]."
John 12:32 AMP
God shows no partiality between Jew and Gentile.
These are the two “natural” ethnic groups that a make up the world of unsaved people.
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.
Romans 2:5-11
Who is excluded from the term “all peoples”?
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:32
Who is excluded from the term “the world”?
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Who is excluded from the term “all men”?
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4
- Jul 13, 2012
- 39,001
- 8,176
- Thread starter
- #44
I hear you saying such things but you have no scripture that says what you claim.
brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,218
- 892
brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,218
- 892
The proper understanding of this verse is all kinds or all manner of people. Just like the following verses.
Mathew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds (G3956) of sickness and all kinds (G3956) of disease among the people.
Matthew 10:1 And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds (G3956) of sickness and all kinds (G3956) of disease.
John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men (G3956) come to him.
Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune?
You tell me. Are all men saved?
Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand
Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
It sounds to me that what God desires or wants, does come to pass. Therefore your verse must mean what actually in reality comes to pass, that all kinds of men from every tribe, tongue and nation are saved.
brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,218
- 892
And I have shown you that probably half the world right now has not heard the message and thus, cannot believe. It has probably been that way for 2,000 years.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
God has decided that the way He wants to save people is by them hearing the gospel. But it seems to be a reality that maybe half the people in the last 2,000 years have not even heard the gospel. Generations and generations of people have lived and died without ever hearing the gospel.
Is anything to hard for God?
How could God desire those people's salvation when He never worked it out for them to at least hear the gospel.
Ephesians 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will.
It seems that all those above who lived and died without hearing the gospel were never predestined to hear it.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 39,001
- 8,176
- Thread starter
- #51
Who specifically is excluded from the term “all peoples”?
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:32
Who specifically is excluded from the term “the world”?
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Who specifically is excluded from the term “all men”?
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4
- Jul 13, 2012
- 39,001
- 8,176
- Thread starter
- #52
Yes. Agreed.
brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,218
- 892
JLB
The seed of the serpent or the children of the devil Gen 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Like these men Jesus said this to Matt 23:32-33
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
The seed of the serpent or the children of the devil Gen 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Like these men Jesus said this to Matt 23:32-33
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
You agreed that God wants to save people by hearing the gospel.
It is a fact that billions of people in the last 2,000 years have not heard the gospel.
And yet you say that God wanted to save all those people.
Do you think that all those people will get a second chance (first chance really) to hear the gospel so they can make their own decision? I'm not against that if the Lord actually does that.
Isaiah 14:27 For the LORD of hosts has purposed, And who will annul it?
I just don't see it in the Scripture.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 39,001
- 8,176
- Thread starter
- #55
I agree that God desires for the world to be saved through His Son; through believing in His Son.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:17
Why? Why does God want the world to be saved?
Because God loves the unsaved people of the world.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
This simple truth completely and utterly destroys the idea of irresistible grace, that says… if God loves you and wants you in His family, He is going to get you.
We know that is false because Jesus teaches us that God loves the world.
John teaches us that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Who are you claiming is excluded from the whole world?
From the OP -
Irresistible Grace
I stands for irresistible grace, which refers to God’s loving power in salvation. Essentially, it says that if God loves you and wants you in His family, He is going to get you.brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,218
- 892
JLB
Thats the world of His Sheep and that world is Saved through Him. Now all are not His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
So the non Sheep shall be damned, seperated from His Sheep Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
But the world of His Sheep He shall say Matt 25:33-34
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Thats the world of His Sheep and that world is Saved through Him. Now all are not His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
So the non Sheep shall be damned, seperated from His Sheep Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
But the world of His Sheep He shall say Matt 25:33-34
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
You always ignore my questions and just come back to your pet passages.
Does God have omniscience or foreknowledge so that even before He sent His son, He already knew who would believe and who would not? Jesus' blood sacrifice was able to save an unlimited number of people. But God chose through the foolishness of the message preached and believed to save those who believe. Therefore, "the world" excludes all those who God foreknew will not believe. But it does include all those God foreknew who would believe all over the world; a multitude that no man could number from every tribe, language and people.
The word "all".
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things . .
Did the Holy Spirit teach the disciples every single fact that existed? The speed of light, E = mc², the distance to the planet Jupiter? Or did He just teach them all kinds of things they needed to know?
Matthew_19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Are all things without exception possible for God?
Heb 6:18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie,
Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie,
So the "all things" must exclude lying at least.
King James
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:
I've mentioned this before but it is always ignored.
We know that the love of money is not the root of all evil. Cain did not kill Able because of money.
So our modern translations correct this:
New King James
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil
1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
I believe that the Lord desires all kinds of men to be saved. Because that is what He actually brings about.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Or all kinds of people.
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things . .
Did the Holy Spirit teach the disciples every single fact that existed? The speed of light, E = mc², the distance to the planet Jupiter? Or did He just teach them all kinds of things they needed to know?
Matthew_19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Are all things without exception possible for God?
Heb 6:18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie,
Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie,
So the "all things" must exclude lying at least.
King James
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:
I've mentioned this before but it is always ignored.
We know that the love of money is not the root of all evil. Cain did not kill Able because of money.
So our modern translations correct this:
New King James
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil
1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
I believe that the Lord desires all kinds of men to be saved. Because that is what He actually brings about.
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Or all kinds of people.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 39,001
- 8,176
- Thread starter
- #59
Yes only those who believe are saved.
Please answer my question which you have ignored from the beginning.
I agree that God desires for the world to be saved through His Son; through believing in His Son.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:17
Why? Why does God want the world to be saved?
Because God loves the unsaved people of the world.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
This simple truth completely and utterly destroys the idea of irresistible grace, that says… if God loves you and wants you in His family, He is going to get you.
We know that is false because Jesus teaches us that God loves the world.
John teaches us that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2
Who are you claiming is excluded from the whole world?
I always answer your questions. You never answer mine - you just keep repeating the same "all" and "whole world" etc. passages.
The ones excluded are those who do not believe. How many times do I have to answer that?
Here is your pet verse:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Here is the logic: "gave His only begotten Son, that (for this reason, for this purpose) whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Can you understand that? He gave His Son so that all those who believe will be saved. The giving of the Son has no reference to those who would not believe. So your saying that God loves all the unbelievers of the world is not correct.
If you listen to other words of Jesus, those who will believe are only those who are given to Jesus by the Father.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
Some people are willing to give up their preconceived ideas and let Scripture correct their thinking.
Some people are not willing to do that and keep forcing their preconceived ideas into the Bible.
