TULIP - Irresistible Grace

[GodsGrace]

What does the scripture exactly say ?

THIS is what the scripture says:

Luke 1:38
38 And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

MAY IT BE DONE TO ME....
Mary gave her consent.

Mary used her free will .

 

[Walpole]

What does the scripture exactly say ?

Presume I do not know. Please answer the question for me...

--> Did Mary freely consent or was she forced?

 

[follower]

Did Mary freely consent or was she forced?

Plain English, or Hebrew , or Greek.

In fact, do you know anyone ever who was forced ?

 

[follower]

Even the copy and pasted is INCORRECT.
TULIP is found nowhere in the NT.

Calvinism did not even exist until a few hundred years ago.

Amen. It is a humongous mystery (an unknown) why it is even allowed to be discussed anywhere among followers of Jesus. It really is a non-subject.

 

[brightfame52]

Presume I do not know. Please answer the question for me...

--> Did Mary freely consent or was she forced?

Lk 1:38

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

 

[brightfame52]

Presume I do not know. Please answer the question for me...

--> Did Mary freely consent or was she forced?

So do you insinuate here that what the Angel told mary in Vs Lk 1:30-37

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Could only occur if mary freely consented to it ? Or was this matter already predetermined by God ?

 

[donadams]

Why are you spamming Gods word ?

quoting is now spamming?

why don't you believe God's word!

all scripture is inspired

 

[donadams]

Ditto.

the scriptures belong to apostolic church who wrote them under the spirit and only the apostolic church can approve their meaning and copying, and translations!

your copies and translations are illicit!

the new testament is the apostolic church's witness (acts 1:8) of Christ!

 

[donadams]

total depravity when did this begin and when did it end?
thks

 

[JLB]

total depravity when did this begin and when did it end?
thks

When did the teaching of Total Depravity begin?

Is that your question?

 

[donadams]

When did the teaching of Total Depravity begin?

Is that your question?

no when did mankind become totally depraved?

at the fall, and sin of adam?

and when did is stop?

thks

 

[Walpole]

So do you insinuate here that what the Angel told mary in Vs Lk 1:30-37

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Could only occur if mary freely consented to it ? Or was this matter already predetermined by God ?

God is not a rapist; he does not act with pure will. (That is the God of Calvinism and Islam.) Rather, He is the God of Logos. The Archangel's words to Mary convey what will happen, not what did already happen. It is only after Mary receives an answer from the Archangel as to how it will be, does she give her fiat voluntatis...

"And he [Gabriel] came to her and said, 'Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!' But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no husband?” And the angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy,the Son of God. And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For with God nothing will be impossible.” And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.” (Luke 1:28-38)

As recorded by St. Luke, the Archangel appears to Mary and addresses her not by her name, but rather by a title. ("Full of grace.") What is Mary's response to the Archangel? She asks him a question: "How can this be?" In other words, she brings the Archangel's message under consideration and only when he satisfies her reason does she give her consent, her fiat voluntatis. Mary's rational faculties are not suspended. She is not forced; rather, she is fully engaged as a rational human being.

Continuing on, the Calvinist anti-Logos position is completely destroyed and the Catholic position is affirmed and confirmed in a small detail when St. Luke continues on and describes the name given our Blessed Lord after His birth…

"And at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised, he was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.” (Luke 2:21)

Did you catch that? "The name given by the angel before he was conceived…” Thus, St. Luke confirms the Incarnation occurred only after Mary’s fiat, not beforehand.


---> Mary knowingly and willingly chose the role God offered her.

 

[donadams]

So do you insinuate here that what the Angel told mary in Vs Lk 1:30-37

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Could only occur if mary freely consented to it ? Or was this matter already predetermined by God ?

as Eve free consented to eat the forbidden fruit so Mary reversed the curse by freely consenting to "our salvation"!

notice how the waits around and does not depart until Mary gives Her answer!

upon the Mary's consent the eternal word descends out of heaven and takes abode on Her sacred womb as His holy temple!

thks

 

[GodsGrace]

the scriptures belong to apostolic church who wrote them under the spirit and only the apostolic church can approve their meaning and copying, and translations!

your copies and translations are illicit!

the new testament is the apostolic church's witness (acts 1:8) of Christ!

MY copies are illicit??
What did I say that you post this to me?

I don't own any copies of scripture.
Illicit or othewise.

Do you mean Protestant copies?
They are the same Don.
It's HOW they're exegeted that changes.

 

[brightfame52]

quoting is now spamming?

why don't you believe God's word!

all scripture is inspired

Yeah, quoting without explanation is spamming.

 

[brightfame52]

God is not a rapist; he does not act with pure will. (That is the God of Calvinism and Islam.) Rather, He is the God of Logos. The Archangel's words to Mary convey what will happen, not what did already happen. It is only after Mary receives an answer from the Archangel as to how it will be, does she give her fiat voluntatis...

"And he [Gabriel] came to her and said, 'Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!' But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no husband?” And the angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy,the Son of God. And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For with God nothing will be impossible.” And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.” (Luke 1:28-38)

As recorded by St. Luke, the Archangel appears to Mary and addresses her not by her name, but rather by a title. ("Full of grace.") What is Mary's response to the Archangel? She asks him a question: "How can this be?" In other words, she brings the Archangel's message under consideration and only when he satisfies her reason does she give her consent, her fiat voluntatis. Mary's rational faculties are not suspended. She is not forced; rather, she is fully engaged as a rational human being.

Continuing on, the Calvinist anti-Logos position is completely destroyed and the Catholic position is affirmed and confirmed in a small detail when St. Luke continues on and describes the name given our Blessed Lord after His birth…

"And at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised, he was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.” (Luke 2:21)

Did you catch that? "The name given by the angel before he was conceived…” Thus, St. Luke confirms the Incarnation occurred only after Mary’s fiat, not beforehand.


---> Mary knowingly and willingly chose the role God offered her.

So do you insinuate here that what the Angel told mary in Vs Lk 1:30-37 is contingent on marys choice ?

 

[brightfame52]

as Eve free consented to eat the forbidden fruit so Mary reversed the curse by freely consenting to "our salvation"!

notice how the waits around and does not depart until Mary gives Her answer!

upon the Mary's consent the eternal word descends out of heaven and takes abode on Her sacred womb as His holy temple!

thks

So do you insinuate here that what the Angel told mary in Vs Lk 1:30-37 was contingent on marys decision and choice ?

 

[JLB]

no when did mankind become totally depraved?

at the fall, and sin of adam?

and when did is stop?

thks

Your asking the wrong person.

I don’t subscribe to the doctrine of total depravity.

 

[Walpole]

So do you insinuate here that what the Angel told mary in Vs Lk 1:30-37 is contingent on marys choice ?

It's quoting the text so there's no insinuation about it. Mary's consent is right there...

---> "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; be it done unto me according to thy word."

If Mary did not consent, you render God a rapist.

 

[brightfame52]

It's quoting the text so there's no insinuation about it. Mary's consent is right there...

---> "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; be it done unto me according to thy word."

If Mary did not consent, you render God a rapist.

So do you insinuate here that what the Angel told mary in Vs Lk 1:30-37 is contingent on marys choice ?