[__ Science __ ] Turns out Covid Vaccine was not tested. Phizer lied.

[Highway54]

Turns out, data are data, no matter what you think of them. There isn't a personal reality for each of us. We all have to live with the one that exists.

It is the trusting of the data that we receive that I question Barbarian. So much information is deceptive.

 

[Highway54]

The layer and recent studies show hospitalized patients are more likely to have taken the shots and the reason is also known.

I don’t think he’s fussy if we aren't Hebrews in accent.

The layer and recent studies show hospitalized patients are more likely to have taken the shots and the reason is also known.

I am simply ignorant on the topic and are unsure of the facts.

I don’t think he’s fussy if we aren't Hebrews in accent.

I agree, but we strive to represent our God with our best. Pressing on to maturity involves improving in our ministry. If someone mispronounces a word, the focus of the message can readily be lost, especially if it is done repeatedly.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am simply ignorant on the topic and are unsure of the facts.

I agree, but we strive to represent our God with our best. Pressing on to maturity involves improving in our ministry. If someone mispronounces a word, the focus of the message can readily be lost, especially if it is done repeatedly.

Well the word is foreign anyway and has no meaning, it doesn’t matter. No one says Jesus as his parents did. Are we all wrong?

 

[Barbarian]

It is the trusting of the data that we receive that I question Barbarian. So much information is deceptive.

I trust law enforcement and scientists more than I trust the far right politicians and culture warriors. For obvious reasons. No rational person wouldn't.

 

[jasonc]

Men get cervical cancer .right ?

 

[Rookie]

My family and I knew that the vaccine was bogus from the beginning, glad we didn't say anything, wouldn't want to be labelled as domestic terrorists.

 

[Rookie]

I trust law enforcement and scientists more than I trust the far right politicians and culture warriors. For obvious reasons. No rational person wouldn't.

Well #1 you should trust Christ, and EVERY man a liar (Romans 3:4)

Law enforcement and scientists are not to be trusted just as much as anyone else, because they are all human and can be manipulated by the lusts of the flesh, eyes, and the pride of life. They, without Christ, serve mammon, money, mamōnas, riches (where it is personified and opposed to God).

Stop trying to politicized everything and just trust in God. And please you see that the truth is out, why do you still deny it?

 

[Rookie]

All I can say is that because of those vaccines I am alive today. I got Covid for the first time back in Dec. of 2022. I received Paxlovid straight away and managed to get through. Now, only 4 months later, I have it again. No Paxlovid this time because the clinic closed early. This round is mild in comparison to the first round. Soon as I get back to work and my 90 day waiting period is up, I will be getting my 5th shot. I don't care whether they tested it or not. I work in the medical field and I am at risk daily with the work that I do as well as having my own health issues. The patients are at risk as well. If that shot keeps us both safe then so be it.

It is because of Christ you are alive, not some manmade and highly fallible substance which if this world acts like Jesus said it acts, has no concern for you or your health but money, power, and it's lusts to be fulfilled. I of course will not get into a deep thread of discourse which I know will be labelled as conspiracy and the evidence I give labelled as misinformation, but thank Christ not man.

 

[Rookie]

Since I don't see any data forthcoming and Barbarian has given the answer, I'll elaborate just a little bit, as I have dealt with this several times on Facebook and I thought even here once or twice before.

There were articles that spread among news outlets late last year that as of August 2022, 58% of deaths from COVID were people who were vaccinated. Of course, a number of right wing outlets, such as the "ever reliable and trustworthy" FOX News, and individuals used this to try and prove the uselessness of vaccines. In this case, what has happened is what is known as the base rate fallacy. This can happen when people simply appeal to absolute numbers without considering the case rate, which is often per 100,000 when dealing with these large numbers.

That 58% of people who died from COVID were vaccinated tells us very little. All it tells us is that the number of vaccinated people dying from COVID was increasing. And there are reasons for that, such as variants that are better at evading immunity (both from vaccines and infection), immunity wanes (both from vaccines and infection), and the overall number of vaccinated people has increased.

At that time, according to the CDC, about 80% of the U.S. population were fully vaccinated or boosted, which means about 20% were unvaccinated. Applying just a little critical thinking, one can easily see that 41.7% of the deaths came from 20% of the (unvaccinated) population, which is much worse than 58.3% of the deaths from 80% of the (vaccinated) population. That alone tells you there is much more to it. You can even roughly estimate quite quickly and see the problem: 80/20=4 (4 times the population is vaxxed vs unvaxxed); 58.3/41.7=1.398 (how many more times the vaxxed died than unvaxxed). Therefore, 4/1.398=2.86. That is, the unvaxxed are around 2.86 times more likely to die.

The following is based on the numbers I ran, back in November, but I don't remember if the numbers were from August, September, or October. When we look at the numbers that actually matter, the death rate per 100,000, the data clearly shows that an unvaccinated person (5.35 deaths/100,000) was slightly more than twice as likely to die as someone who was vaccinated or boosted (2.65 deaths/100,000). But, even that is a bit tricky since that was only of those who get COVID. When we look at the numbers for people getting COVID in the first place, again, an unvaccinated person (1487.98 cases/100,000) was slightly more than twice as likely to get it than someone who was vaccinated (685.26 cases/100,000).

Putting those numbers together means that overall, an unvaccinated person was about 4.3 times more likely to die from COVID than a person who was vaccinated. And, remember, that is just one month. I checked my numbers at the time with what the CDC produced, and I was off by a very small margin, but that could easily be attributed to population estimates.

It is easy to see that the vaccines are still effective, the bivalent one even more so, and one is far better off to get vaccinated than not.

Even so, the vaccine was promoted to be 90% effective at least, so some math can show that among that 80% did not have that guaranteed 90% effectiveness rate as the death toll among vaccinated people is lower. I'm concerned about false advertising there.

And I presume since you said "the very reliable Fox New" in that tonality you meant that they are not a reliable source to be trusted. And the alternative is sources like CNN, who is promoting the vaccine. So your proposing that someone who wants to market a particular item is more trustworthy than one who seems to want otherwise. And the money involved on behalf of the one who wants a particular item to be marketted is still the more reliable source than the other even though the other has little to gain from its approval (many right wings are vaccinated) than one who gains everything from it's marketting.

I have not gotten vaccinated and glad I didn't. There has been too much shroudedness around the vaccine. One in particular is Facebook who said that any information regarding the vaccine whether TRUE or Not that is determined to be anti-vax, will be shadowbanned or silenced. Whisteblowers who came out about the vaccine, although their information is questionable, what is, is that when they come out about these things they lose practically everything, their job, their livelyhood, their credibility & reputation, even some of them have to remain anonymous. The executives who have came out about the vaccine are ignored. Even almost came to a point where you couldn't fly anywhere or go much places unless you had your vax card. Or in New York where ages 5+ couldn't go to any public facility, restaurants, gym, and the like without being vaccinated. Sounds kindaof Mark of the Beast-ish.

And what do people do, recieve truth and because they want to believe what they want to believe they rejected it and continue forward. The CDC admitted to enlarging the numbers of covid patients. Of course much more information but judging the crowd here it will be well written off, so I'll stick to the left-wing approved sources. And from a spiritual lenses we know that satan is the prince of the air and has his finger on this world, God has well allowed him to do so. We know satan wants to kill, steal, and destroy but we want so darn badly to trust the world because we just gotta. God isn't just for when we need to overcome doubt, fear, or obvious and outward sins, He is the guider and Shepherd of all our steps. The US especially has had a history of untrustworthiness and cover-ups, from watergate to even admitting the existence of UFO's (which scientists who claimed this lost everything and still have nothing) and that's just the ones they are willing to admit. Why do we want to trust satan so badly? Why do we want to fall into his arms? Why do we neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddd to have faith in him and his world. Not saying be hysterical because God is soveriegn, but why must we believe satan?

It all makes sense with this verse.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
"9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

It doesn't just apply lawlessness, but the need to believe the worlds lies, and so much God will eventually give you into a reprobate mind so that you can't help but believe it. If we fall so hard over a vaccine, we won't last a prayer before we fall for the AntiChrist and the growing kingdom of darkness.

 

[Rookie]

I don't think "They are all lying!" is an effective argument, particularly in the absence of evidence.

That's your first problem. No one can show that "millions of people" died from the vaccines. Even the most inflated estimate is three orders of magnitude smaller than your claim.

Odd then, that about 270,000,000 Americans have gotten the vaccines and as you realize, only a tiny minority of them died. Less than would be expected from a sample that large by chance.


If so, it backfired big time. The death rate for those who took the vaccine is a fraction of the death rate for those who did not.

That's what's killing people. No point in denial.

Imaginary, mostly. Notice that nations with low birth rates are offering all sorts of financial and social benefits to people who have children.

You don't believe in spiritual warfare do you? Just as long as CNN tells you you gonna believe it. As long as the world confirms it you agree with it.

Your assesment of imaginary is quite ignorant and fallacious indeed.

 

[Free]

Even so, the vaccine was promoted to be 90% effective at least, so some math can show that among that 80% did not have that guaranteed 90% effectiveness rate as the death toll among vaccinated people is lower. I'm concerned about false advertising there.

If you're truly concerned, you could just do the math and see where it leads.

And I presume since you said "the very reliable Fox New" in that tonality you meant that they are not a reliable source to be trusted.

Exactly, as the recent news about them has shown.

And the alternative is sources like CNN, who is promoting the vaccine.

This isn't an either/or situation. That CNN is promoting the vaccines is neither here nor there. It doesn't make them more or less trustworthy, especially compared to the nonsense pulled by FOX. There are also a lot of news sources in between. A person can also search read actual research papers and journal articles from legitimate sources.

So your proposing that someone who wants to market a particular item is more trustworthy than one who seems to want otherwise. And the money involved on behalf of the one who wants a particular item to be marketted is still the more reliable source than the other even though the other has little to gain from its approval (many right wings are vaccinated) than one who gains everything from it's marketting.

In this case, many of the right wing sources simply got it wrong and/or used fear mongering for their own gain. It's about appealing to their base, getting more viewers, and increasing advertising revenue. Everyone is in it for the money.

I have not gotten vaccinated and glad I didn't. There has been too much shroudedness around the vaccine. One in particular is Facebook who said that any information regarding the vaccine whether TRUE or Not that is determined to be anti-vax, will be shadowbanned or silenced. Whisteblowers who came out about the vaccine, although their information is questionable, what is, is that when they come out about these things they lose practically everything, their job, their livelyhood, their credibility & reputation, even some of them have to remain anonymous. The executives who have came out about the vaccine are ignored.

So some sources say. The issue is the quality of the sources. Some of those posted on these forums that were anti-vaxx were highly suspect. Misinformation and disinformation are still rampant.

Even almost came to a point where you couldn't fly anywhere or go much places unless you had your vax card. Or in New York where ages 5+ couldn't go to any public facility, restaurants, gym, and the like without being vaccinated.

It did come to that point in many places, as it should have.

And what do people do, recieve truth and because they want to believe what they want to believe they rejected it and continue forward.

Which goes for everyone, including yourself, correct?

The CDC admitted to enlarging the numbers of covid patients. Of course much more information but judging the crowd here it will be well written off, so I'll stick to the left-wing approved sources. And from a spiritual lenses we know that satan is the prince of the air and has his finger on this world, God has well allowed him to do so. We know satan wants to kill, steal, and destroy but we want so darn badly to trust the world because we just gotta. God isn't just for when we need to overcome doubt, fear, or obvious and outward sins, He is the guider and Shepherd of all our steps. The US especially has had a history of untrustworthiness and cover-ups, from watergate to even admitting the existence of UFO's (which scientists who claimed this lost everything and still have nothing) and that's just the ones they are willing to admit. Why do we want to trust satan so badly? Why do we want to fall into his arms? Why do we neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddd to have faith in him and his world. Not saying be hysterical because God is soveriegn, but why must we believe satan?

This all seems to be a case of begging the question.

It all makes sense with this verse.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
"9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

I don't see how that verse applies.

It doesn't just apply lawlessness, but the need to believe the worlds lies, and so much God will eventually give you into a reprobate mind so that you can't help but believe it.

This is also a case of begging the question.

If we fall so hard over a vaccine, we won't last a prayer before we fall for the AntiChrist and the growing kingdom of darkness.

This is plainly fallacious.

 

[Free]

My family and I knew that the vaccine was bogus from the beginning, glad we didn't say anything, wouldn't want to be labelled as domestic terrorists.

How did you know "it" was bogus? They were highly effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalizations, and death. Without them, we would have seen a greater number of deaths and been still in the pandemic. They did what they were supposed to do. Doesn't seem very bogus to me.

 

[Barbarian]

That's your first problem. No one can show that "millions of people" died from the vaccines. Even the most inflated estimate is three orders of magnitude smaller than your claim.

Odd then, that about 270,000,000 Americans have gotten the vaccines and as you realize, only a tiny minority of them died. Less than would be expected from a sample that large by chance.

You don't believe in spiritual warfare do you?

Spiritual warfare is quite different than anti-vaxxers lying about the deaths from refusing the vaccine.

Just as long as CNN tells you you gonna believe it.

I prefer to go to the medical and scientific literature. If you had done that, it could have saved you some embarrassment.

As long as the world confirms it you agree with it.

Reality might have some annoying tendencies, but it is real.

Your assesment of imaginary is quite ignorant and fallacious indeed.

I see your denials and stories, but the data is more convincing. Sorry.

 

[Barbarian]

Well #1 you should trust Christ, and EVERY man a liar (Romans 3:4)

Jesus hasn't commented on the vaccine at this point. But I do notice whose stories are aligning with the data, and whose are not.

Law enforcement and scientists are not to be trusted just as much as anyone else

After a few years of noting what people say and what the facts reveal afterwards, one makes some conclusions. And those guys tend to be more reliable than you tube jockeys with strange stories to peddle.

They, without Christ, serve mammon, money, mamōnas, riches (where it is personified and opposed to God).

Funny how people peddling alternative remedies never talk about how much money they make from fooling people.

Stop trying to politicized everything and just trust in God.

God gave us intelligence and ability to do things so that we could take care of ourselves in such things. If you trust in God, you will do what you can to take care of yourself.

You have seen that illness and death is much less common among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. Why do you still deny the truth?

 

[WIP]

In this case, many of the right wing sources simply got it wrong and/or used fear mongering for their own gain. It's about appealing to their base, getting more viewers, and increasing advertising revenue. Everyone is in it for the money.

This argument goes both ways. CNN, MSNBC are both so far politically left they would have fallen off a flat earth. Same is true for Fox News on the opposite side. None of them true news reporting sources but instead are nothing but tabloid commentaries. Take what they say with a grain of salt.

 

[Rookie]

If you're truly concerned, you could just do the math and see where it leads.


Exactly, as the recent news about them has shown.


This isn't an either/or situation. That CNN is promoting the vaccines is neither here nor there. It doesn't make them more or less trustworthy, especially compared to the nonsense pulled by FOX. There are also a lot of news sources in between. A person can also search read actual research papers and journal articles from legitimate sources.


In this case, many of the right wing sources simply got it wrong and/or used fear mongering for their own gain. It's about appealing to their base, getting more viewers, and increasing advertising revenue. Everyone is in it for the money.


So some sources say. The issue is the quality of the sources. Some of those posted on these forums that were anti-vaxx were highly suspect. Misinformation and disinformation are still rampant.


It did come to that point in many places, as it should have.


Which goes for everyone, including yourself, correct?


This all seems to be a case of begging the question.


I don't see how that verse applies.


This is also a case of begging the question.


This is plainly fallacious.

1. Already did.

2. Quite predictable if I might say

3. Research papers provided by independent scientists who don't let political bolshevism to get in the way of their science? Or the ones promoted by leftist autocratics?

4. Assuming your taking a more leftist approach, your assumption based on your personal conclusion that the more right angles got it wrong hasn't had much evidence independent of political bias.

5. Ok then, applying your logic. Let's say someone is deemed as anti-homosexual by the culture, but this person brings out statistics that prove homosexual commit pedophilia many times more than heterosexuals do, because the culture assumes he's anti-homosexual his statistics don't work? This is how the world works, you aren't valid unless you get the worlds stamp of approval, isn't that what we as Christ followers don't have? Another example, someone deemed as pro-communists gives a details thesis back by research to show the failures in capitalism, but because he is deemed (not that he said he was but simply it was assumed without any definitive evidence) communist is his work to be diminished? Never throw the baby out with the bath-water. So what if I'm deemed anti-vax? Does that condemn me to hell? I hate when Christians take such strong political stances that have zero to do with God or Christ-like character. Someone who is suspect of the Holocaust is culturally-condemned even by Christians because it just can't be that the Holocaust was anything but how the history books say it, even though man wrote those books. Someone who is anti-vax is condemned because the vaccine just can't be fallible even though it was made by fallible humans, it's like God goes out the window and we don't apply his precepts to politics because we just gotta be culturally correct. Do we Free?

6. So the same should be happening with the Mark correct? Everyone who doesn't want the oh-so-perfectly-and-infallible jab should have social life stripped from them, jobs robbed from them, they shouldn't be able to take care and provide for their families? That's definetly unbecoming. I have a great-grandmother who's dealing with chronic illness, ever since she took the jab (which was forced on her using fear tactics) her health has plummetted, sometimes I fear for my granny's life, and it was all because the blasted left wing facists forced their insufferable vendettas through fear, control, and cultural cancellation.

7. Of course, but I'm not the one standing in the position of I'm right and no one else is, because I can't be right. I'm not saying the vaccine is useless and I can't be corrected, I'm saying from the standard it was help upon and the predictable America and documentaries showing these behaviors, we deemed it bogus, but we barely told anyone, because the leftists Hitlers were breathing down our necks.

8. In which your proof for it is?

9. You never heard of a reprobate mind?

10. And your evidence, did you even do the homework to see if my claims are true? I usually do it for people, but then I rather not waste my time if whatever evidence is brought up will be shot down before even considering it because the opposing side just is right and case closed.

11. Your opinion, not fact. The entire world shut down (even the so-called free and democratic countries like the US) over this at first highly exaggerated virus (I went to Dominican Republic and they had curfews at 7pm during this thing, in the US we say helicopters and tanks telling people to stay inside). Then the solution was what? A jab in the arm, then fascism was induced, anyone who resisted were scourged and almost couldn't leave there houses without this. Believe it or not this was definitely a test run for the real thing.

 

[Rookie]

How did you know "it" was bogus? They were highly effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalizations, and death. Without them, we would have seen a greater number of deaths and been still in the pandemic. They did what they were supposed to do. Doesn't seem very bogus to me.

Are you sure they were highly effective, or did you just hear that from a source who's validity was blackened by leftist propaganda.

And for how we knew it was bogus, #1 we didn't fall into political fear and culture correctiveness as everyone else did.
#2 Many contradictions in the governments statements about COVID, first it came from bats to the first patients were actually humans in a US funded facility in Wuhan. First it was out of control people dropping like flies, but then CDC says the numbers were exaggerated. Then it was different countries like Brazil and the Carribean where they said it was soooooo bad, but we went there for ourselves and it was nothing like the news said it was. Especially Brazil it was so normal there people were beyond packed in buses with no masks and no one was getting sick, people hung around each other like normal, there were masks in the more professional places but not mandated we talked to people not news reporters who don't know nothing. And one time we were going to Jamaica and a family member said the news said it was closed, but at that very moment we were boarding the plane to go there, but she was steel-bent to believe the news instead of us who actually flew there and lived normal with no problem.
#3 Since the most well-hidden place you can hide anything is in plain sight, many things were in plain sight, but of course if I get to the most relevant specific, I will be written off.
#4 The vaccine came out way to quick, it usually takes years of research and testing for a vaccine, however this came out not even a year later. Common sense tells you that it's not infallible
#5 A job a friend works allows them to see when a specific website was created and government agencies etc. How was Covid-19 pandemic created in 2004????

There is more but I will not list it unless you want to hear it.

 

[Rookie]

That's your first problem. No one can show that "millions of people" died from the vaccines. Even the most inflated estimate is three orders of magnitude smaller than your claim.

Odd then, that about 270,000,000 Americans have gotten the vaccines and as you realize, only a tiny minority of them died. Less than would be expected from a sample that large by chance.


Spiritual warfare is quite different than anti-vaxxers lying about the deaths from refusing the vaccine.

I prefer to go to the medical and scientific literature. If you had done that, it could have saved you some embarrassment.

Reality might have some annoying tendencies, but it is real.


I see your denials and stories, but the data is more convincing. Sorry.

1. Lying according to who? Pro-vaxxers? That makes the argument very unrefutable. The ones being accused of something that will profit them denying it because they are very impartial.

2. And I prefer to go by faith and not fear. So you can take the politically corrupt medical and spiritually amuck scientific literature, also, maybe use common sense and save you some embarrassment.

3. Real according to who?

4. The O-so-unrefutable data. Man I'm starting to wonder if Christians can take the Bible as seriously and absolute as CNN and it's fellow data concievors. The US has had a history of inconsistencies and you still choose to believe them. If we take God half as seriously we'd be unstoppable.

 

[Free]

This argument goes both ways. CNN, MSNBC are both so far politically left they would have fallen off a flat earth. Same is true for Fox News on the opposite side. None of them true news reporting sources but instead are nothing but tabloid commentaries. Take what they say with a grain of salt.

For sure. I look at them all--left, right, centrist, American, Canadian, European, independent--look at the data myself, and take it all into consideration.

 

[Free]

Are you sure they were highly effective, or did you just hear that from a source who's validity was blackened by leftist propaganda.

I looked at the data myself.

And for how we knew it was bogus, #1 we didn't fall into political fear and culture correctiveness as everyone else did.

You just fell into the fear of the vaccines.

#2 Many contradictions in the governments statements about COVID, first it came from bats to the first patients were actually humans in a US funded facility in Wuhan. First it was out of control people dropping like flies, but then CDC says the numbers were exaggerated. Then it was different countries like Brazil and the Carribean where they said it was soooooo bad, but we went there for ourselves and it was nothing like the news said it was. Especially Brazil it was so normal there people were beyond packed in buses with no masks and no one was getting sick, people hung around each other like normal, there were masks in the more professional places but not mandated we talked to people

Right. Did you visit all the hospitals and go into morgues, or just talk to people on the street, who actually know very little of what was going on?

not news reporters who don't know nothing.

The word you're looking for is "anything." If they "don't know nothing," it means they know something.

And one time we were going to Jamaica and a family member said the news said it was closed, but at that very moment we were boarding the plane to go there, but she was steel-bent to believe the news instead of us who actually flew there and lived normal with no problem.

So, either she heard wrong and was mistaken, or the news was wrong. What is that supposed to show?

#3 Since the most well-hidden place you can hide anything is in plain sight, many things were in plain sight, but of course if I get to the most relevant specific, I will be written off.

Don't understand what you're talking about here.

#4 The vaccine came out way to quick, it usually takes years of research and testing for a vaccine, however this came out not even a year later. Common sense tells you that it's not infallible

I've already posted on that. I suggest you take a look at the articles I provided. It wasn't just "poof," there's a vaccine.

#5 A job a friend works allows them to see when a specific website was created and government agencies etc. How was Covid-19 pandemic created in 2004????

It wasn't.

There is more but I will not list it unless you want to hear it.

Please, continue.