[__ Science __ ] Turns out Covid Vaccine was not tested. Phizer lied.

[Barbarian]

I have heard studies show that those who took the shots suffer covid longer and worse. The reason makes sense.

Well, let's see what data we have for that...
Int J Environ Res Public Health
2022 Sep 29;19(19):12422

Effect of COVID-19 Vaccines on Reducing the Risk of Long COVID in the Real World: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis ​

Compared with patients who were not vaccinated, vaccination showed its protective effect in patients vaccinated with two doses (RR = 0.83, 95% CI: 0.74-0.94, p < 0.01), but not one dose (RR = 0.83, 95% CI: 0.65-1.07, p = 0.14). In addition, vaccination was effective against long COVD in patients either vaccinated before SARS-CoV-2 infection/COVID-19 (RR = 0.82, 95% CI: 0.74-0.91, p < 0.01) or vaccinated after SARS-CoV-2 infection/COVID-19 (RR = 0.83, 95% CI: 0.74-0.92, p < 0.01). For long COVID symptoms, vaccination reduced the risk of cognitive dysfunction/symptoms, kidney diseases/problems, myalgia, and sleeping disorders/problems sleeping. Our study shows that COVID-19 vaccines had an effect on reducing the risk of long COVID in patients vaccinated before or after SARS-CoV-2 infection/COVID-19.​

Looks like vaccination with two doses does a pretty good job of preventing long COVID.

 

[WIP]

From what I’ve read, most of the length of time to vaccines approved is due to regulatory red tape and logistical issues, all of which were removed or limited, which sped up the process significantly. Also, long-term side effects of vaccines are typically known within a few months, and the mRNA vaccines underwent the required testing periods. The mRNA technology has been around for at least a couple of decades, iirc, if not since the 80s, which allowed its use in these vaccines so quickly.

Us average folk may never really know the full story. What we can say with certainty, is that it is not some depopulation conspiracy.

I never implied it was some conspiracy. I just pointed out that it is potentially dangerous to rush things like this too fast. Injecting millions of people with a concoction we know very little about in the hopes of stopping one disaster only to potentially discover later that we created an even more deadly problem would be a very sad thing indeed.

It goes without saying that taking the risk could also be worth it. My hope is that it was a carefully calculated risk.

 

[WIP]

From what I’ve read, most of the length of time to vaccines approved is due to regulatory red tape and logistical issues,

Are you sure that isn't a conspiracy theory? I like to give our regulatory agencies the benefit of doubt and trust that they truly do have our best interest in mind so the red tape you speak of could be another name for carefully drawn out procedures to ensure the safety of the drugs and vaccines that are used on the human population. What would be gained by imposing a lot of red tape on new drugs and vaccines just for the sake of delaying their approval? Certainly, the pharmaceutical companies don't gain anything by it. I'd be more inclined to believe in a red tape theory when it comes to approving generic drugs because that keeps the name brands with a monopoly and their very high price tags for a longer period of time.

 

[Highway54]

I have heard studies show that those who took the shots suffer covid longer and worse. The reason makes sense.

Interestingly those studies would be argued. Most studies I briefly read says quite the opposite.

I just looked up the pronunciation of Jesus' on the internet, I pronounce it Jesus which I believe is correct. I found 3 places which pronounced that term, the first pronounced it Jesussuz. I said to myself, you are incorrect, so I looked on, and found 2 that pronounced it the way I do. Fact is, those studies boil down to personal opinion I am afraid, like most things Dorothy.

 

[Barbarian]

Fact is, those studies boil down to personal opinion I am afraid

Turns out, data are data, no matter what you think of them. There isn't a personal reality for each of us. We all have to live with the one that exists.

 

[Free]

I never implied it was some conspiracy.

Sorry, I actually meant to add "as some are doing," but I know you aren't.

I just pointed out that it is potentially dangerous to rush things like this too fast. Injecting millions of people with a concoction we know very little about in the hopes of stopping one disaster only to potentially discover later that we created an even more deadly problem would be a very sad thing indeed.

It goes without saying that taking the risk could also be worth it. My hope is that it was a carefully calculated risk.

It would be dangerous to rush things too fast, for sure, but in this case I'm not convinced that it was as rushed as some people think.

"It often takes years for vaccines to be tested. The tests are known as clinical trials. They can take time to organize, gather volunteers, and then roll out one by one over many months. This is often the longest part of the vaccine process.

For the COVID-19 vaccines, researchers were much more efficient in their testing schedules. There are different phases of testing vaccines, on both animals and people. These are called Phase I, Phase II, and Phase III. In the past, these tests were spaced out over years. But for the COVID-19 vaccines, many volunteers were signed up quickly. Phase I, II, and II trials happened with different groups in overlapping schedules. Vaccine approval agencies looked at testing data as it was happening and didn’t waste time."

https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/Coronavirus/134,263

https://www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/...could-anything-developed-this-quickly-be-safe

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...-were-developed-faster-than-any-vaccine-ever/

As to side effects showing up long afterwards:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...use-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot-

Are you sure that isn't a conspiracy theory?

Quite sure, especially since it seems most people don't even know about how they were able to make them as fast as they did.

I like to give our regulatory agencies the benefit of doubt and trust that they truly do have our best interest in mind so the red tape you speak of could be another name for carefully drawn out procedures to ensure the safety of the drugs and vaccines that are used on the human population. What would be gained by imposing a lot of red tape on new drugs and vaccines just for the sake of delaying their approval? Certainly, the pharmaceutical companies don't gain anything by it. I'd be more inclined to believe in a red tape theory when it comes to approving generic drugs because that keeps the name brands with a monopoly and their very high price tags for a longer period of time.

I may be wrong about regulatory red tape, as it may not be red tape so much as it is normally just a slow process that they were able to speed up in various ways. Certainly there were logistical obstacles that were removed.

 

[WIP]

For the COVID-19 vaccines, researchers were much more efficient in their testing schedules. There are different phases of testing vaccines, on both animals and people. These are called Phase I, Phase II, and Phase III. In the past, these tests were spaced out over years. But for the COVID-19 vaccines, many volunteers were signed up quickly. Phase I, II, and II trials happened with different groups in overlapping schedules. Vaccine approval agencies looked at testing data as it was happening and didn’t waste time."

It has been my understanding that in the interest of time, they ran all three clinical tests simultaneously and to me that is a mistake because it doesn't allow for adequate time to evaluate each step before moving on to the next step. There's a reason the FDA requires these steps to be sequential. By running them simultaneously, they are essentially bypassing the first two steps. I think that is a dangerous precedent to set.

We may have got lucky this time or maybe not. I guess time will tell. What about the next time?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Interestingly those studies would be argued. Most studies I briefly read says quite the opposite.

The layer and recent studies show hospitalized patients are more likely to have taken the shots and the reason is also known.

I just looked up the pronunciation of Jesus' on the internet, I pronounce it Jesus which I believe is correct. I found 3 places which pronounced that term, the first pronounced it Jesussuz. I said to myself, you are incorrect, so I looked on, and found 2 that pronounced it the way I do. Fact is, those studies boil down to personal opinion I am afraid, like most things Dorothy.

I don’t think he’s fussy if we aren't Hebrews in accent.

 

[Christ_empowered]

The trials were rushed because it was a national emergency. To be fair the fda is too accommodating to corporations anyway but..people were dying.

My big problem is the huge huge huge tax payer investment is now boosting big pharma while individuals and insurers may end up having to pay for the next round of shots. That’s fundamentally unfair…

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The trials were rushed because it was a national emergency. To be fair the fda is too accommodating to corporations anyway but..people were dying.

My big problem is the huge huge huge tax payer investment is now boosting big pharma while individuals and insurers may end up having to pay for the next round of shots. That’s fundamentally unfair…

The same percent died before the shots as afterwards. I watched the stats the whole time….always 1-2% with the medium age around 71.

 

[JLB]

 

[Free]

It has been my understanding that in the interest of time, they ran all three clinical tests simultaneously and to me that is a mistake because it doesn't allow for adequate time to evaluate each step before moving on to the next step. There's a reason the FDA requires these steps to be sequential. By running them simultaneously, they are essentially bypassing the first two steps. I think that is a dangerous precedent to set.

We may have got lucky this time or maybe not. I guess time will tell. What about the next time?

One of the links says that they were run with overlap, so it seems it was sequential, but multiple testing in different countries allowed it to be both simultaneous and sequential.

Yeah, time will tell.

 

[Free]

The same percent died before the shots as afterwards. I watched the stats the whole time….always 1-2% with the medium age around 71.

Do you have data for this? How about those previously mentioned studies?

 

[JLB]

More vaccinated deaths than unvaccinated deaths from covid.

 

[WIP]

The trials were rushed because it was a national emergency. To be fair the fda is too accommodating to corporations anyway but..people were dying.

Wouldn't rushing the process be more accommodating to the corporations? Making them wait before releasing is not accommodating in the slightest to my knowledge.

 

[Free]

More vaccinated deaths than unvaccinated deaths from covid.

Overall, his video is very misleading for those who don't think critically. He mentions risk-benefit analysis a fair bit, yet, he doesn't compare the effects from vaccines with the effects from COVID. He also says protective effects from the vaccines wane, which is true, but doesn't mention that so do the protective effects from infection. He also doesn't mention that the initial vaccines were designed for the original variant and some protection was lost with each newer variant.

It's interesting that he mentions the 58% of deaths from COVID were vaccinated people, which I already dealt with and showed that by only sticking with the absolute numbers, is to appeal to the base rate fallacy. Even experts aren't immune to fallacious and misleading arguments. The unvaxxed are still about 4 times as likely to die as vaxxed. That is the number that matters.

 

[WIP]

"It often takes years for vaccines to be tested. The tests are known as clinical trials. They can take time to organize, gather volunteers, and then roll out one by one over many months. This is often the longest part of the vaccine process.

Yes, and according to the FDA website, the process normally takes years to complete, not months. Just remember, I'm speaking of an American Food and Drug Administration who's purpose is "protecting the public health by ensuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, and medical devices." I know nothing about the agencies or the processes in Canada.

Source: https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/what-we-do#:~:text=FDA Basics-,FDA Mission,and products that emit radiation.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I was trying to make the point that the fda is too accommodating on any given day. However it was a national emergency and the government expedited approval process did allow for faster vaccine development.

 

[WIP]

I was trying to make the point that the fda is too accommodating on any given day. However it was a national emergency and the government expedited approval process did allow for faster vaccine development.

Actually, it is a common concern that the FDA works too slowly. People complain all the time about the drawn out process of approving new medications.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno ?‍

A lot of newer drugs are just expensive me too drugs and patent extenders. Serious adverse effects are often only detected after approval and the post marketing process for identifying such problems is flawed at best. There’s also the revolving door…work in big pharma then at the fda and vice versa…

Which is an especially important problem in the USA since the law has not yet allowed for price caps or universal health coverage.