[__ Science __ ] Turns out Covid Vaccine was not tested. Phizer lied.

[Barbarian]

This is conspiracy theory, nothing more. If the vaccine was meant for population control, it did a terrible job, as few lost their lives from them.

Yes, the original conspiracy theory was that the virus was designed to kill off the population. Problem is, it doesn't work very well. So far, it got about a million Americans. Heart disease and cancer do a better job.

Then, the story shifted to "the vaccine was designed to kill us." But that fell apart when it was clear that the death rate of vaccinated people was a fraction of the death rate for unvaccinated people.

What's next? Maybe Jewish Space Lasers.

 

[jasonc]

Right! Got it.

Nothing to see. Nothing to understand. Only ignore and deny.

Current my pastors wife a pa .works with the elderly .
.my job has a cemetery.it would be noticed here.

My church tracks abortion at the local mill .your logic would argue more die from the Vaccine per week then abortion.

It's less then 20 per week with abortion.

 

[Barbarian]

My church tracks abortion at the local mill .your logic would argue more die from the Vaccine per week then abortion.

Well, abortions are 100% fatal. The vaccine is less than 1/200,000 of that.

 

[jasonc]

Well, abortions are 100% fatal. The vaccine is less than 1/200,000 of that.

He claims otherwise and I was pointing out that it would be noticed here.

I explore old graveyards .I have found old ones still quite active .

 

[Barbarian]

You don’t need to try and convince me, as it’s all the news stations and doctors and hospitals world wide that are reporting this.

Convince them Barbarian.

They are convinced. Last time I checked, no hospitals, and only a tiny number of physicians denied the facts.

You can post anything you like, but as we see, the statistics show now that time has passed that Covid 19 is a pandemic of the vaccinated.

The problem is what is called "innumeracy." People who don't understand quantitative reasoning.

Let's say that 90 percent of a population is vaccinated. But most people who become ill are vaccinated people, say 60 percent of them. So you shouldn't get vaccinated? Wrong. If the vaccination did nothing at all, you'd expect 90 percent of the people becoming ill to be vaccinated people. If the vaccination was harmful, then more than 90 percent of the people becoming ill would be vaccinated. And if the vaccination was effective against the disease, you'd expect less than 90 percent of the vaccinated people becoming ill.

Las Vegas gets rich on people who can't see why this is so. And in the real world...

Unvaccinated people were up to fourteen times more likely to be infected by COVID-19 than vaccinated people, depending on the variant common at the time. And unvaccinated people were five times more likely to die of COVID-19. Who would be dumb enough to buck odds like that?

Someone who is unable to rationally think about numbers.

 

[JLB]

 

[JLB]

 

[Dorothy Mae]

He claims otherwise and I was pointing out that it would be noticed here.

I explore old graveyards .I have found old ones still quite active .

How are graveyards active?

 

[Highway54]

I wonder if it works, who knows?

 

[Barbarian]

I wonder if it works, who knows?

FDA requires evidence of testing for any vaccine. The data is publicly available. No one with any sense denies the fact. Further, the results confirm the testing that Pfizer did. Those vaccinated are much less likely to be infected and very much less likely to become seriously ill or die than are unvaccinated people.

BMJ 2021 May 13;373:n1088.

Effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines on covid-19 related symptoms, hospital admissions, and mortality in older adults in England: test negative case-control study ​

Conclusion:
Vaccination with either one dose of BNT162b2 or ChAdOx1-S was associated with a significant reduction in symptomatic covid-19 in older adults, and with further protection against severe disease. Both vaccines showed similar effects. Protection was maintained for the duration of follow-up (>6 weeks). A second dose of BNT162b2 was associated with further protection against symptomatic disease. A clear effect of the vaccines against the B.1.1.7 variant was found.

 

[Highway54]

FDA requires evidence of testing for any vaccine. The data is publicly available. No one with any sense denies the fact. Further, the results confirm the testing that Pfizer did. Those vaccinated are much less likely to be infected and very much less likely to become seriously ill or die than are unvaccinated people.

BMJ 2021 May 13;373:n1088.

Effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines on covid-19 related symptoms, hospital admissions, and mortality in older adults in England: test negative case-control study ​

Conclusion:
Vaccination with either one dose of BNT162b2 or ChAdOx1-S was associated with a significant reduction in symptomatic covid-19 in older adults, and with further protection against severe disease. Both vaccines showed similar effects. Protection was maintained for the duration of follow-up (>6 weeks). A second dose of BNT162b2 was associated with further protection against symptomatic disease. A clear effect of the vaccines against the B.1.1.7 variant was found.

I truly do not know. My brother was fully vaccinated but his wife chose to abstain. they both caught covid, but my brother had it worse and longer. I believe I might have been an early one to catch covid prior to knowledge of it, but do not know for sure. I have not been sick since then, but I wear a mask. I have had the 2 initial shots, but have chosen not to continue with boosters.

 

[Barbarian]

I can only go with the odds. It might very well be that I would not have become sick or have died if I didn't get vaccinated. And some people who got vaccinated died. Just as a few sober drivers die in auto accidents every year, while some people drive drunk and live.

But the numbers tell us which of those is the wise way to go.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I truly do not know. My brother was fully vaccinated but his wife chose to abstain. they both caught covid, but my brother had it worse and longer. I believe I might have been an early one to catch covid prior to knowledge of it, but do not know for sure. I have not been sick since then, but I wear a mask. I have had the 2 initial shots, but have chosen not to continue with boosters.

I have heard studies show that those who took the shots suffer covid longer and worse. The reason makes sense.

 

[Free]

I have heard studies show that those who took the shots suffer covid longer and worse.

I haven't seen any of those. If you can provide some, that would be great, since all the data I have seen points the other way. When the vaccines first came out, there was a clear negative correlation between the number of vaccines givien and the number of hospitalizations. It was almost inversely proportional. Although, everyone reacts to COVID differently, so some are going to suffer longer and worse regardless of whether or not they were vaccinated.

The two young women I know who have long COVID the worst (for over 2 years, requiring help for simple daily functioning) weren't vaccinated.

The reason makes sense.

What reason is that?

 

[Marci]

I will say since I work in a hospital that I have seen coworkers in all departments who have and have not had the vaccine and still ended up with long Covid. I don't feel it has any bearing on who got the vax and who didn't. I still believe it has to do with viral load and some people's natural immunity defenses. I have inadvertently exposed a co-worker to Covid twice now. And he hasn't gotten it at all. And he's had his vax. His natural immunity is very high. He's young and healthy. I'm old and have things wrong with my lungs therefore I'm at higher risk. I chose the vaccines because of that. I don't see how they could not have been properly tested when they had started working on them back with SARS. They likely had most of that info in front of them. Maybe that helped them rush these vaccines in attempt to save lives. I hate to imagine how staggering the number of deaths would've been without them. Without the vaccine I would be dead. That I am sure of. So far I've experienced no ill effects from the vaccines. They have kept me alive twice now. The only hospitalization was for the ER to take care of a COPD exacerbation brought on by the Covid. Life is gonna take it's toll on our bodies regardless of whether or not we have a vaccine. I have never understood the big stink over this vaccine when we have so many others. I didn't understand the big stink over the masks either. If a person were truly worried about their safety against this deadly virus I would think they would gladly take the precautions. I am not a sheep in case someone decides to call me that. I am simply making an intelligent decision.

 

[jasonc]

I will say since I work in a hospital that I have seen coworkers in all departments who have and have not had the vaccine and still ended up with long Covid. I don't feel it has any bearing on who got the vax and who didn't. I still believe it has to do with viral load and some people's natural immunity defenses. I have inadvertently exposed a co-worker to Covid twice now. And he hasn't gotten it at all. And he's had his vax. His natural immunity is very high. He's young and healthy. I'm old and have things wrong with my lungs therefore I'm at higher risk. I chose the vaccines because of that. I don't see how they could not have been properly tested when they had started working on them back with SARS. They likely had most of that info in front of them. Maybe that helped them rush these vaccines in attempt to save lives. I hate to imagine how staggering the number of deaths would've been without them. Without the vaccine I would be dead. That I am sure of. So far I've experienced no ill effects from the vaccines. They have kept me alive twice now. The only hospitalization was for the ER to take care of a COPD exacerbation brought on by the Covid. Life is gonna take it's toll on our bodies regardless of whether or not we have a vaccine. I have never understood the big stink over this vaccine when we have so many others. I didn't understand the big stink over the masks either. If a person were truly worried about their safety against this deadly virus I would think they would gladly take the precautions. I am not a sheep in case someone decides to call me that. I am simply making an intelligent decision.

I'm not a mask mandate supporter.

Meh mine comes from cbrn and nbc stuff and knowing that decon is a key ,mask changing etc .most wore there masks poorly and also way beyond their life span

 

[Free]

I will say since I work in a hospital that I have seen coworkers in all departments who have and have not had the vaccine and still ended up with long Covid. I don't feel it has any bearing on who got the vax and who didn't.

Agreed. Getting COVID is the key problem.

I still believe it has to do with viral load and some people's natural immunity defenses. I have inadvertently exposed a co-worker to Covid twice now. And he hasn't gotten it at all. And he's had his vax. His natural immunity is very high. He's young and healthy. I'm old and have things wrong with my lungs therefore I'm at higher risk. I chose the vaccines because of that. I don't see how they could not have been properly tested when they had started working on them back with SARS. They likely had most of that info in front of them. Maybe that helped them rush these vaccines in attempt to save lives. I hate to imagine how staggering the number of deaths would've been without them. Without the vaccine I would be dead. That I am sure of. So far I've experienced no ill effects from the vaccines. They have kept me alive twice now. The only hospitalization was for the ER to take care of a COPD exacerbation brought on by the Covid. Life is gonna take it's toll on our bodies regardless of whether or not we have a vaccine. I have never understood the big stink over this vaccine when we have so many others. I didn't understand the big stink over the masks either. If a person were truly worried about their safety against this deadly virus I would think they would gladly take the precautions. I am not a sheep in case someone decides to call me that. I am simply making an intelligent decision.

I did frontline work (as a Community Support Worker) helping those from vulnerable populations isolate, for 17 months, while the isolation mandates were in effect. For the first year-and-a-half of the program (started 6 months before I started), not a single staff member, medical or support worker, got COVID on site; some got it from community transmission (friends, family, etc.). That first year was before vaccines were made available to us. To me, that says something about the PPE, sanitizing, etc., especially since we were all constantly being exposed. I think that a few may have gotten it from work after Omicron hit, but we were then fitted with N95s and had to always wear them in client areas. With Omicron, just one small misstep in donning or doffing PPE, or some such thing, and the possibility of getting it was high.

I am one of those who rarely even gets a cold, maybe slight sniffles for a day or two, while my wife gets everything quite badly and is high risk with COVID. We both are fully vaccinated and still mask in riskier situations. And, thankfully, neither of us has had COVID, that we know of. Considering almost everyone we know has had COVID at least once, and we know four women, of varying ages, from our church that have long COVID, we've been very blessed so far. As you say, masks are nothing and I don't understand the fuss over them either.

The interesting thing is, while most/all anti-COVID-vaxxers keep saying that natural immunity is best (which it isn't; it's the combination of vax and COVID), at my work we had a number of clients who had COVID more than once, and one poor guy got it twice within 3 months, with an additional stay with us in between as a close contact and tested negative. I think it was his third time actually getting it within 8 months or so.

 

[WIP]

I don't see how they could not have been properly tested when they had started working on them back with SARS.

First, MRNA technology is new. Until the Covid vaccines, it had never been tried on human patients before. So let's consider the FDA's requirements for obtaining approval.

There are quite a number of steps involved and I'm not going to look them up again now but will give a synopsis from my memory. You can look it up yourself to confirm or deny my memory. I have provided the information I found on the FDA website in previous discussion so maybe a search of CFnet might help.

First, the short of it is that a new drug or vaccine must undergo a series of discovery/concept research to determine its potential. This process can usually take years and as you've already mentioned, MRNA technology has been in the works for over a decade so it can easily be argued that this portion of the process has been done. But that's where things kind of get fuzzy in my understanding.

The second phase is the pre-clinical testing. This phase is conducted in labs using lab animal research. It's purpose is to determine efficacy and risks such as toxicity. There are specific rules about how these tests are conducted including rules regarding personnel, facilities, the equipment used, data collected, reports, and more. This phase is probably the shortest phase of the process but even so can take time. Keep that word in mind....time.

The third phase is the clinical testing phase. This phase is divided into three or more steps starting with a small test group and with each step using a larger test group and allowing some time between each step to monitor for side effects. Here's that word time again. The purpose is to verify efficacy and safety. According to the FDA information I found the clinical testing process typically takes anywhere from 2-6 years or more because part of the process involves the aspect of time. Remember, I said keep that word in mind. It can take time to determine what side effects may be the result of the drug or vaccine.

The fourth phase is the review process. In this process if a drug developer has evidence from its early tests and preclinical and clinical research that a drug is safe and effective for its intended use, the company can file an application to market the drug. The FDA review team thoroughly examines all submitted data on the drug and makes a decision to approve or not to approve it.

Let's think about this. The Covid pandemic in the US started in January, 2020. That's only three years ago. At that time, MRNA technology for the Covid vaccines had not yet entered the preclinical testing phase for potential treatments for Covid since Covid was not known about yet. At the very least it should have taken over 2 years to approve it after the start of clinical trials but bear in mind that MRNA technology was totally new and had no track record to work off of. So just that alone in my mind says it should take longer than a vaccine produced under known and previously tested processes like other typical vaccines. Also keep in mind that the fastest any other vaccine ever achieved full FDA approval was, going from memory here, I believe prior to the Phizer Covid vaccine, the fastest ever done was the polio vaccine and it took 6 years to approve.

The Phizer vaccine was fully approved by the FDA in August of 2021. Just 1-1/2 years after the pandemic began. How did they possibly get approval for a never before tested vaccine for human use in less time than any other vaccine ever done?

I personally can't help but wonder how it was done and what side effects might we encounter going forward? Hopefully, everything will work out okay.

 

[Free]

First, MRNA technology is new. Until the Covid vaccines, it had never been tried on human patients before. So let's consider the FDA's requirements for obtaining approval.

There are quite a number of steps involved and I'm not going to look them up again now but will give a synopsis from my memory. You can look it up yourself to confirm or deny my memory. I have provided the information I found on the FDA website in previous discussion so maybe a search of CFnet might help.

First, the short of it is that a new drug or vaccine must undergo a series of discovery/concept research to determine its potential. This process can usually take years and as you've already mentioned, MRNA technology has been in the works for over a decade so it can easily be argued that this portion of the process has been done. But that's where things kind of get fuzzy in my understanding.

The second phase is the pre-clinical testing. This phase is conducted in labs using lab animal research. It's purpose is to determine efficacy and risks such as toxicity. There are specific rules about how these tests are conducted including rules regarding personnel, facilities, the equipment used, data collected, reports, and more. This phase is probably the shortest phase of the process but even so can take time. Keep that word in mind....time.

The third phase is the clinical testing phase. This phase is divided into three or more steps starting with a small test group and with each step using a larger test group and allowing some time between each step to monitor for side effects. Here's that word time again. The purpose is to verify efficacy and safety. According to the FDA information I found the clinical testing process typically takes anywhere from 2-6 years or more because part of the process involves the aspect of time. Remember, I said keep that word in mind. It can take time to determine what side effects may be the result of the drug or vaccine.

The fourth phase is the review process. In this process if a drug developer has evidence from its early tests and preclinical and clinical research that a drug is safe and effective for its intended use, the company can file an application to market the drug. The FDA review team thoroughly examines all submitted data on the drug and makes a decision to approve or not to approve it.

Let's think about this. The Covid pandemic in the US started in January, 2020. That's only three years ago. At that time, MRNA technology for the Covid vaccines had not yet entered the preclinical testing phase for potential treatments for Covid since Covid was not known about yet. At the very least it should have taken over 2 years to approve it after the start of clinical trials but bear in mind that MRNA technology was totally new and had no track record to work off of. So just that alone in my mind says it should take longer than a vaccine produced under known and previously tested processes like other typical vaccines. Also keep in mind that the fastest any other vaccine ever achieved full FDA approval was, going from memory here, I believe prior to the Phizer Covid vaccine, the fastest ever done was the polio vaccine and it took 6 years to approve.

The Phizer vaccine was fully approved by the FDA in August of 2021. Just 1-1/2 years after the pandemic began. How did they possibly get approval for a never before tested vaccine for human use in less time than any other vaccine ever done?

I personally can't help but wonder how it was done and what side effects might we encounter going forward? Hopefully, everything will work out okay.

From what I’ve read, most of the length of time to vaccines approved is due to regulatory red tape and logistical issues, all of which were removed or limited, which sped up the process significantly. Also, long-term side effects of vaccines are typically known within a few months, and the mRNA vaccines underwent the required testing periods. The mRNA technology has been around for at least a couple of decades, iirc, if not since the 80s, which allowed its use in these vaccines so quickly.

Us average folk may never really know the full story. What we can say with certainty, is that it is not some depopulation conspiracy.

 

[Barbarian]

Us average folk may never really know the full story. What we can say with certainty, is that it is not some depopulation conspiracy.

Given the results, if it was a depopulation conspiracy, it backfired big time. The death rate for vaccinated people is a fraction of the death rate for unvaccinated people.