Bible Study Two Covenants: The Old and New

[jocor]

So why is the mountain in Galilee?

Deuteronomy 4:48
From Aroer, which is by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion, which is Hermon.

As the borders of the tribes of Israel are established, we find here that it extended unto mount Sion, which is called Hermon.

So why does Hermon become significant.

Because after the reign of King Solomon the Kingdom was divided. The stronghold of the Northern Tribes of Israel was Sion, Mt Hermon. The Southern Tribes from Jerusalem.

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The lost tribes of the Northern Kingdom that was destroyed by the Assyrians.

Jesus went to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The Northern Kingdom, from whence is Mount Sion, called Hermon. A mountain located to the north of Galilee. When Jesus went up into the mountain to teach the "sermon on the mount" the prophecy of the Law going forth from Zion was being fulfilled as the prophets foretold in Isaiah 2 and Micah 4.
.

I pulled the following excerpt off the internet to help clarify the issue of "Sion" being in Galilee. It may seem long, but it is an important read. (Bold mine)

Mount Hermon is a very large triple peaked mountain in the very north
of Israel, almost on the Syrian and Lebanon borders. While Mount Zion
is one of the numerous hills that constitute the city of Jerusalem.

At first sight, the combination of Psalm 133:3 and Deuteronomy 4:48
seems to imply that either Mount Zion is another name for Mount
Hermon, or part of Mount Hermon is also called Mount Zion.

But, is that actually what the Scriptures are saying?

It is important to note the actual Hebrew words that are used in the
two verses under consideration.

Psalm 133:3
It is like the dew of Hermon, descending upon the mountains of Zion;
for there the LORD commanded the blessing-- life forevermore. (NKJ)

The word "Zion" here is Strongs 6726. This word is virtually always
rendered "Zion" in English translations of the Tanakh. It is usually a
reference to one of the primary hills of the environs of Jerusalem -
Mount Zion. This is where David had his palace, and where the Ark of
the Covenant temporarily resided prior to being taken across the
valley onto the hill known as Mount Moriah, where the Temple of
Solomon was built. Zion is always used in conjunction with the city of
Jerusalem. While Zion is frequently used as a kind of synonym for
Jerusalem, it is not necessarily a synonym for the Temple Mount.

The phrase "mountains of Zion" seems to be a reference to Jersualem.

Therefore, it is unlikely that the use of the word Zion, in Psalm
133:3, while referred to in the same sentence as Mount Hermon, is
meant to convey that the mountain in the northern most area of Israel
is to be understood to be actually located in Jerusalem. We should
look for an alternative interpretation.

However, what is meant by the words of Deutonomy 4:47?

Deuteronomy 4:47-48
And they took possession of his land and the land of Og king of
Bashan, two kings of the Amorites, who were on this side of the
Jordan, toward the rising of the sun, from Aroer, which is on the bank
of the River Arnon, even to Mount Sion (that is, Hermon), (NKJ)

The word "Sion" here is Strongs 7865, and is the only occasion that
this word is used in the Tanakh. While it appears to look similar, in
our English translations, to the word translated "Zion" in Psalm
133:3, it is has no connection. It derives from the Hebrew word for
elevation, or to arise, and may be a reference to the one (or all) of
the triple peaks of Mount Hermon.
​

Here is the word from Isaiah 4:48 (top) compared with the word from Psalm 33:3 (bottom):

שׂיאן - śı̂y'ôn
ציּון - tsı̂yôn

 

[jocor]

So come and let us reason together. So if the sin nature in your flesh is too strong, that you can not resist trying to identify sin through the law of Moses, then there is another way. But it too is a way of sin. You see, Christ was made SIN for us. He who knew no sin was made sin for us that we might know the righteousness of God in Christ.

So then Christ has been made Sin for me. Wow.

But wait, if Jesus came that he might take unto himself all the sins of the world, so that He might become sin for me, then I have a dilemma: For if Christ is in Me, and All the Sins of the World are in Christ, then that means that all of the Sins of the World are in me. Oh my, what to do! Well, If Christ be in me, and with him all the sins of the world be in me, then there is no more reason that I need to look at a law carved in stone to guide my path, for all the sins of the world are made known unto me in Christ through His Grace, and not with the condemnation that comes from the law of disobedience.
.

That does not sound kosher to me. Messiah took the sins of the world upon himself, upon his body of flesh. He died bearing our sins. Did he resurrect bearing our sins in his new heavenly body or were the sins of the world removed from him prior to his resurrection?

Hebrews 9:28 So Messiah was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
​

 

[Sparkey]

How can anyone call a certain people stiff necked for not following their Creators comandments then make the claim the commandments God gave them were impossible to keep anyways?

The whole impossibility of that rather large pill (as you call it) came because there were many things (laws and instructions) that were added because of our transgressions. There was no corruption added, God saw to that. But consider a familiar scene at a local grocery store where we have an unruly child throwing a tantrum. The mom settles the kid down but the dad doesn't want to be embarrassed by the child again, so now, instead of "Stay in our sight, young man," the child hears, "Stay in our sight, and keep your hand clapsed right here," indicating the basket. Then Mom thinks about and adds, "And I want you to remain quiet while we are shopping too!"

So that law, about holding the cart and about not talking, came about because the whole scene started when the kid wanted that ball. The parents wanted to have an enjoyable time (and keep the peace) but the extra laws came because of transgressions.

It just doesnt make sense that someone would expect another to do the impossible then when they couldn't, punish them for failing to do it. Only a cruel taskmaster would think do that, not a loving God.

The law was never made to be impossible. It was made more strict (strident?) because of the stubbornness, but never because God likes to make things difficult. You already know how easy things are and we only know this because of His Son, His Son who learned obedience. God was seen by Jesus alone and only He can show us who our Creator is at heart.

 

[ezrider]

That does not sound kosher to me

Kosher? Why must everything be kosher for you?

Is it not written in your law, yes I said your law, just the same way Jesus did. Is it not written in your law that when they had entered the land of promise, that the two loaves of the new meat offering where to be baked with leaven? On no, say it ain't so! Leaven, why that doesn't sound kosher to me. I wonder why that might be. Oh that's right, I remember now. I seem to remember a commandment from the Lord, it went something like this: what God has cleansed, that call not common. I guess then since all has been made clean for me, then all is kosher for me. Just saying!

.

 

[Sparkey]

Kosher? Why must everything be kosher for you?

You beat me to it.

On no, say it ain't so! Leaven, why that doesn't sound kosher to me.

Because you have not really understood kosher laws? You almost have to live it to know it. Leaven is kosher enuf. Crackers are okay. You're probably thinking about what is and is not "Kosher for Passover".

During Passover, Jews refrain from eating chometz: anything that contains barley, wheat, rye, oats, and spelt, and is not cooked within 18 minutes after coming in contact with water. No leavening is allowed.
(source: Why are some foods kosher and others not? by Michael Morrison)
​

Pardon my interjection. I agree with what Chopper said earlier.

Thought Bubble:. o O (Great Shepherd, we want Your oil on our faces, even now).

EZ, I think you were speaking to an earlier point about Zion being in Galilee. I've not heard that instruction before. Distractions will come tomorrow too. We can wait before the chance for ignoring them some more maybe...

So why is the mountain in Galilee?

Mt. Sion? It's difficult for me to stay current when there are needless interruptions. Pardon, but that seemed to be the topic. Yes? In any case, do carry on. I like this thread a bunch. Thank you.

 

[reba]

I pulled the following excerpt off the internet to help clarify the issue of "Sion" being in Galilee. It may seem long, but it is an important read. (Bold mine)

Please also post the url... Thanks reba

 

[jocor]

Kosher? Why must everything be kosher for you?

I used the word "kosher" idiomatically to suggest it was not something I should receive.

Is it not written in your law, yes I said your law, just the same way Jesus did. Is it not written in your law that when they had entered the land of promise, that the two loaves of the new meat offering where to be baked with leaven? On no, say it ain't so! Leaven, why that doesn't sound kosher to me. I wonder why that might be. Oh that's right, I remember now. I seem to remember a commandment from the Lord, it went something like this: what God has cleansed, that call not common. I guess then since all has been made clean for me, then all is kosher for me. Just saying!
.

You did not answer my question. Did he resurrect bearing our sins in his new heavenly body or were the sins of the world removed from him prior to his resurrection? I would also like you to explain your view in light of the two verses I referenced. BTW, you do realize the two loaves baked with leaven represent men, not Yeshua, right?

 

[jocor]

Please also post the url... Thanks reba

Sorry. I didn't think I was allowed to post links without approval.

http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9709/970924_k.html

 

[ezrider]

I used the word "kosher" idiomatically to suggest it was not something I should receive.


You did not answer my question. Did he resurrect bearing our sins in his new heavenly body or were the sins of the world removed from him prior to his resurrection? I would also like you to explain your view in light of the two verses I referenced. BTW, you do realize the two loaves baked with leaven represent men, not Yeshua, right?

It is such a mystery, isn't it?

 

[jocor]

It is such a mystery, isn't it?

If you don't have answers to my questions, just say so instead of making these useless comments.

 

[Sparkey]

If you don't have answers to my questions, just say so instead of making these useless comments.

There is no rule about answering your questions. Where did you get that idea anyway?
The endless questions (so called) makes it difficult for others to follow the proper flow of things. Maybe a private conversation for "questions"? Just a suggestion.
We do want to follow the OP, right?

 

[jocor]

There is no rule about answering your questions. Where did you get that idea anyway?
The endless questions (so called) makes it difficult for others to follow the proper flow of things. Maybe a private conversation for "questions"? Just a suggestion.
We do want to follow the OP, right?

Did I say he had to answer my questions? If he chooses not to, so be it. I don't need to read snarks in return. As for the OP, ez started it. I am trying to address his posts. Since he is trying to teach us that the OC is abolished along with all of Yahweh's laws and that the new law came forth from Mt. Zion in Galilee ... I need to have that teaching verified. So far, he has not done so.

 

[Sparkey]

I directly quoted you already. You said, "If you don't have to answer my questions, just say so..." But don't you even hear yourself? Now stop. There is no room for this silliness in the Bible Study forum.

I've held my peace long enough. Now you're coming at me?!? Okay, fine. Have it your way. You say are speaking to the OP because he's trying to teach us. I don't buy it. It's called heckling from the audience. I paid my money (came to this thread) to hear Him, not you. Sorry, but if you want to beat a dead horse, there are other threads for that. You are trying to usurp the OP because you come with your ax, ready and willing to grind. Nothing more.

 

[ezrider]

Did I say he had to answer my questions? If he chooses not to, so be it. I don't need to read snarks in return. As for the OP, ez started it. I am trying to address his posts. Since he is trying to teach us that the OC is abolished along with all of Yahweh's laws and that the new law came forth from Mt. Zion in Galilee ... I need to have that teaching verified. So far, he has not done so.

You need to have it verified by me? Who am I that I should verify anything for you. I am but a stranger passing along the way. I am sorry, but I can not contain the joy that is within my heart. I just have to share it with someone. But the gift I give to you is not good enough, but you demand the I verify it for you too! I'm sorry my friend, but you are asking for a piece of knowledge in a city of FAITH, and it not mine to give unto you. There is one that is your teacher, if you would hear his voice. But you knew this already.

 

[jocor]

I directly quoted you already. You said, "If you don't have to answer my questions, just say so..." But don't you even hear yourself? Now stop. There is no room for this silliness in the Bible Study forum.

You did not quote me correctly. I wrote, "If you don't have answers to my questions, just say so instead of making these useless comments." Also, my post was directed to ezrider, not you.

 

[Sparkey]

Okay. Fine. I'll ask for assistance. Seems you have difficulty hearing anybody but yourself.

 

[ezrider]

Mount Hermon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hermon

Mount Hermon (Arabic: جبل حرمون , جبل الشيخ‎ / ALA-LC: Jabal al-Shaykh / "Mountain of the Chief" "Jabal Haramun"; Hebrew: הר חרמון‎, Har Hermon, "Mount Hermon") is a mountain cluster in the Anti-Lebanon mountain range. Its summit straddles the border between Syria and Lebanon[1] and, at 2,814 m (9,232 ft) above sea level, is the highest point in Syria.[2] On the top, in the United Nations buffer zone between Syria and Israeli-occupied territory, is the highest permanently manned UN position in the world, known as "Hermon Hotel".[3] The southern slopes of Mount Hermon extend to the Israeli-occupied portion of the Golan Heights, where the Mount Hermon ski resort is located.[4] A peak in this area rising to 2,236 m (7,336 ft) is the highest elevation in Israeli-controlled territory.

In the Book of Enoch, Mount Hermon is the place where the Watcher class of fallen angels descended to Earth. They swear upon the mountain that they would take wives among the daughters of men and take mutual imprecation for their sin (Enoch 6). The mountain or summit is referred to as Saphon in Ugaritic texts where the palace of Baal is located in a myth about Attar.[5][6] The Book of Chronicles also mentions Mount Hermon as a place where Epher, Ishi, Eliel, Azriel, Jeremiah, Hodaviah and Jahdiel were the heads of their families.[7] R.T. France, in his book on the Gospel of Matthew, noted that Mount Hermon was a possible location of the Transfiguration of Jesus.[8]

OMG! Who knows what JLB will do with that one! And if you must, please take it to a different thread. But how ironic would that be. Our wedding vows by the Son of God given on the same mount as the fabled fallen Angels.

 

[jocor]

You need to have it verified by me? Who am I that I should verify anything for you. I am but a stranger passing along the way. I am sorry, but I can not contain the joy that is within my heart. I just have to share it with someone. But the gift I give to you is not good enough, but you demand the I verify it for you too! I'm sorry my friend, but you are asking for a piece of knowledge in a city of FAITH, and it not mine to give unto you. There is one that is your teacher, if you would hear his voice. But you knew this already.

I did not say YOU need to verify it. I need it to be verified by Scripture, not by your words even if they stem from a joyous heart. I am not going to blindly accept what you are teaching if it is not verified by the Word. Your teaching that Mt. Zion is found in Galilee is not verified by the Word. Your teaching that "The way the Lord has chosen to instruct you by is the way of sin" is highly doubtful. At least I'm not seeing that in the Word yet. Neither do I see the entire Law of YHWH abolished in the Word. Yes, the "old covenant" is abolished for those who entered the new covenant through Yeshua, but the Law remains. I fully understand that you disagree with me, so there is no use in continuing to discuss those three points. Please continue with sharing the rest of what's on your heart.

 

[ezrider]

I did not say YOU need to verify it. I need it to be verified by Scripture, not by your words even if they stem from a joyous heart. I am not going to blindly accept what you are teaching if it is not verified by the Word. Your teaching that Mt. Zion is found in Galilee is not verified by the Word. Your teaching that "The way the Lord has chosen to instruct you by is the way of sin" is highly doubtful. At least I'm not seeing that in the Word yet. Neither do I see the entire Law of YHWH abolished in the Word. Yes, the "old covenant" is abolished for those who entered the new covenant through Yeshua, but the Law remains. I fully understand that you disagree with me, so there is no use in continuing to discuss those three points. Please continue with sharing the rest of what's on your heart.

Maybe your just to busy focusing on Zion, when what you really should be focusing on is Hermon. Zion to me is where ever Christ is. Hermon is the Mount he stood upon. Also called Zion. Go and look upon the divided Kingdom after Solomon. My guess is you will find the groves to Baal were upon this mountain. And it is the mountain in which Elijah called down fire from heaven that consumed the prophets of Baal.

 

[jocor]

Maybe your just to busy focusing on Zion, when what you really should be focusing on is Hermon.

I know where Hermon is. It is about 50 miles away from Galilee where Yeshua gave the Sermon on the Mount. The point of this entire discussion is that the Sermon on the Mount is not the fulfillment of the "law going forth from Zion" because the sermon was given from Galilee, not from Jerusalem and not from Hermon.