Two witnesses

[Garion]

So....who are the 2 witnesses? Once again you guys got carried away with politics and lost track of the question.

I'm asking because I can really use a miracle right now I'm jobless ,homeless and surviving only by the kindness of others.

Do these witnesses have a cell number, voicemail or maybe email? Thanks for your help

 

[for_his_glory]

Garion, go back and read my post #37 as this explains the two witnesses are the word of God and the Holy Spirit that works through us who take His word out into the world.

Gods word and the Holy Spirit is nothing to play around with and if you truly do need help then reply back and I will tell you how to help yourself to a better life or if you want to talk in private message me.

 

[Garion]

Thanks anyone else

Garion, go back and read my post #37 as this explains the two witnesses are the word of God and the Holy Spirit that works through us who take His word out into the world.

Gods word and the Holy Spirit is nothing to play around with and if you truly do need help then reply back and I will tell you how to help yourself to a better life or if you want to talk in private message me.[/QUO thanks but I don't believe that the Bible is only metaphor and perspective.

I appreciate your point of view though ,have a great day!

 

[Garion]

Garion, go back and read my post #37 as this explains the two witnesses are the word of God and the Holy Spirit that works through us who take His word out into the world.

Gods word and the Holy Spirit is nothing to play around with and if you truly do need help then reply back and I will tell you how to help yourself to a better life or if you want to talk in private message me.

I appreciate your point of view but personally I don't believe that God's advice is only metaphor and perspective, some stuff maybe.

 

[for_his_glory]

I appreciate your point of view but personally I don't believe that God's advice is only metaphor and perspective, some stuff maybe.

It's not Gods advice, but His very word that never comes back to Him void, but is sent out to that which God wants to accomplish in us, Isaiah 55:11. What is written is Gods perspective of our life as He created all of us and wants to give us His best. Jesus used parables that were metaphors, but also explained them. The Bible is literal in where it needs to be and also symbolic for us to dig into the deeper mysteries of Gods word that strengthens our relationship to Him.

When one ask if the two witnesses have cell phones to me that makes mockery of God as I have no idea what your situation is other than you saying you are jobless and homeless. If you want to talk about that and truly need help then I will share how to get the help you need. Other than that I don't have time for anything nonsense and hope you are legit.

 

[Garion]

I'm literal and practical is what I am and I'm not taking part in a make believe argument just to help you pass time.

 

[for_his_glory]

Garion, I don't have time to play games with you as I take the word of God very seriously and never argue it, but will discuss it. Your intentions in here are not honorable and I will bid you a good day sir as I have no time for your foolishness.

 

[DiscipleDave]

http://biblehub.com/revelation/11-5.htm

Two horns=two kings.

Ive heard many people say the two witnesses were Moses and elijah but this is something that has always escaped me.I would just say i dont know who it is.
I have understood for along time that a military comprised of gentiles will occupy Jerusalem during Trumps adminstrstion.And i understand fire proceeds out of thier mouth to devour thier enemies .
But whos the other king?
Whos is the other military and which country is it from?Russia?

Putin is as involved with the Russian orthodox church asTrump is with evangelicals.
Whos millitaries "of the gentiles"shall tread Jerusalem under foot for 42 months?
US and Russia?

Scriptures are True, and they can not be broken. It is appointed for every man to die. NOBODY escapes that Truth. Elijah and Enoch did not die in the past, for they were taken, but they are appointed to die as well, They are the Two witnesses.

The Two Witnesses will be located in Jerusalem. Israel will not kick them out or lift a finger against them. The whole world will come against Jerusalem because that city is harboring the two witnesses, which seems to the entire world that what they say is destroying them. The Two witnesses must be stopped. Since Jerusalem won't do anything against them, the nations of the world will.

When the two witnesses are dead, the entire world rejoices and celebrates.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

As i said.The USA and Donald trump as its president does not turn against the Israeli false goverment.Even after Israel has been overrun,the US responds .
.End of discussion.

All nations will come against Jerusalem, even the US. Zech 14:2 is pretty clear on that matter.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[for_his_glory]

Scriptures are True, and they can not be broken. It is appointed for every man to die. NOBODY escapes that Truth. Elijah and Enoch did not die in the past, for they were taken, but they are appointed to die as well, They are the Two witnesses.

The Two Witnesses will be located in Jerusalem. Israel will not kick them out or lift a finger against them. The whole world will come against Jerusalem because that city is harboring the two witnesses, which seems to the entire world that what they say is destroying them. The Two witnesses must be stopped. Since Jerusalem won't do anything against them, the nations of the world will.

When the two witnesses are dead, the entire world rejoices and celebrates.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

If you go to my post #9 this explains the two witnesses in Rev 11.

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere)

Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.

Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.

Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death and that he was not found. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

 

[DiscipleDave]

If you go to my post #9 this explains the two witnesses in Rev 11.

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13.

Amen this is True, for only one has ascended from the Earth to the 3rd Heaven and that is Jesus Christ

Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

This is True for the most part, but ONLY those who are in Christ sleep until He Returns. Everyone who dies are not in Christ.

2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere)

You are correct.

Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.

Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.

Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts.

Amen, all True.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death and that he was not found. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

If you will receive it. Elijah and Enoch are still with us. Why do you think Jesus said "Verily I say unto you there are some standing here who shall not taste death till I come"? (Mark 9:1 & Luke 9:27). Because Elijah and Enoch were there. Elijah and Enoch will die as the two witnesses in Jerusalem, and when they do. Christ will come 3 days later.

 

[for_his_glory]

Amen this is True, for only one has ascended from the Earth to the 3rd Heaven and that is Jesus Christ



This is True for the most part, but ONLY those who are in Christ sleep until He Returns. Everyone who dies are not in Christ.



You are correct.



Amen, all True.



If you will receive it. Elijah and Enoch are still with us. Why do you think Jesus said "Verily I say unto you there are some standing here who shall not taste death till I come"? (Mark 9:1 & Luke 9:27). Because Elijah and Enoch were there. Elijah and Enoch will die as the two witnesses in Jerusalem, and when they do. Christ will come 3 days later.

In Those two scriptures you gave it was Elias who is the Greek form of Elijah and Moses who appeared with Jesus in the transfiguration, not Enoch.

I believe this verse means those who are still alive at the second coming of Jesus as He comes with great power. I put the emphasis on the words "there be some of them that stand here", meaning those that stand here on earth who are still alive and have not died yet before His coming with all power and authority from heaven. It doesn't say stand here right now where Jesus, Peter, James and John were standing as we know Peter, James and John all lay asleep in the grave till Jesus returns again.

I already explained that of Enoch and Elijah in post #50.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Back to the topic of the two witnesses here is my study of who the two witnesses are.

Revelation 11

Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.

God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.

Zechariah speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.

John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.

The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.

This sounds pretty good FHG. I'm not sure that it doesn't need some tweaking, but i bet you're pretty close. Good job. I'm not sure that my idea doesn't need some tweaking either. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands, two of one kind of thing and two of another kind of thing. I don't think the 144,000 are from all the tribes of literal Israel, but from the Israel of God.

But my main thing is that i think they are here now. Their power was given to them in 2015 and the disciples began to measure the Temple. And to the ends of the earth, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They are prophesying again through the power of Scripture. The judgment of the living begins when the "daily' in Heaven's Temple was taken away. With Johns help, the two witnesses began measuring the Temple at that time. Who will "measure up" to be in the inner court? That is the question now.

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria , and to the ends of the earth​

The two Olive Trees, and the two Lampstands. Two of one kind of thing and two of another kind of thing. Not everything might be like it seems. The Holy Spirit and the Bible? Two Witnesses that stand before the Lord of the Earth. Just waiting for their two of another kind? The Bible and the Holy Spirit just waiting for the 144,000 to be sealed?

Two pairs of the 144,000. 72 end time disciples being sent out again? 72,000 pairs of the 144,000. For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up. And they will not finish going through all the towns of the Israel of God before the Son of Man comes. And when this Gospel of the Kingdom is preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come.

"And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.​

Can this be thought of like "the sharp sword with which to strike down the nations", that comes out of the white horse Riders mouth? According to a Holy Spirit inspired Bible, the wicked will surround God's people with the intention of harming them:

"They "marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them.​

"But fire came down from heaven and consumed them. Fire coming out of the mouths of the two witnesses. The Bible speaks of fire that will fill the earth someday. Fire from the mouth of a Holy Spirit inspired Bible. There you have it from the horse's mouth. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.

​

"And they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.​

Blood and fire and columns of smoke, as often as they desire.

Blood and fire comes out from the mouth of the Bible, God's Word:

"The third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of water, and they became blood​

​

"The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues.​

They did not repent and give him glory.​

​

It's a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. .​

​

Follow the Lamb,​

Wherever He goes.​

​

Peaceful Sabbath.​

​

When the Fire Comes Down From Heaven
Hank Williams

Way back in the days of Noah
Water covered all this land
Then the great rainbow of promise
Started up on life again

And the Good Book tells of fires
That will fill the earth some day
Then the sinful will be screamin'
As this earth shall pass away

When the fire
(When the fire)
Comes down from Heaven
(Comes down from Heaven)

This old world
(This old world)
Will melt away
(Will melt away)

Millions then
(Millions then)
Will cry for mercy
(Will cry for mercy)

But it will be
(But it will be)
Too late to pray

Oh, this world is at a tremble
And it's rockin' to and fro
You can read it in the papers
Hear it on the radio

In the movies, they are showin'
Towns and cities, how they blaze
But there's hotter fire a comin'
If we follow sin's highway

When the fire
(When the fire)
Comes down from Heaven
(Comes down from Heaven)

This old world
(This old world)
Will melt away
(Will melt away)

Millions then
(Millions then)
Will cry for mercy
(Will cry for mercy)

But it will be
(But it will be)
Too late to pray

Texas City, Texas City
Oh, how awful was her fate
First she burned and then exploded
Now the story, we'll relate

Of the Winecoff in Atlanta
How she burned right to the ground
Of the great fire in Chicago
And the dead lay all around

When the fire
(When the fire)
Comes down from Heaven
(Comes down from Heaven)

This old world
(This old world)
Will melt away
(Will melt away)

Millions then
(Millions then)
Will cry for mercy
(Will cry for mercy)

But it will be
(But it will be)
Too late to pray

 

[for_his_glory]

This sounds pretty good FHG. I'm not sure that it doesn't need some tweaking, but i bet you're pretty close. Good job. I'm not sure that my idea doesn't need some tweaking either. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands, two of one kind of thing and two of another kind of thing. I don't think the 144,000 are from all the tribes of literal Israel, but from the Israel of God.

But my main thing is that i think they are here now. Their power was given to them in 2015 and the disciples began to measure the Temple. And to the ends of the earth, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They are prophesying again through the power of Scripture. The judgment of the living begins when the "daily' in Heaven's Temple was taken away. With Johns help, the two witnesses began measuring the Temple at that time. Who will "measure up" to be in the inner court? That is the question now.

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria , and to the ends of the earth​

The two Olive Trees, and the two Lampstands. Two of one kind of thing and two of another kind of thing. Not everything might be like it seems. The Holy Spirit and the Bible? Two Witnesses that stand before the Lord of the Earth. Just waiting for their two of another kind? The Bible and the Holy Spirit just waiting for the 144,000 to be sealed?

Two pairs of the 144,000. 72 end time disciples being sent out again? 72,000 pairs of the 144,000. For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up. And they will not finish going through all the towns of the Israel of God before the Son of Man comes. And when this Gospel of the Kingdom is preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come.

"And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.​

Can this be thought of like "the sharp sword with which to strike down the nations", that comes out of the white horse Riders mouth? According to a Holy Spirit inspired Bible, the wicked will surround God's people with the intention of harming them:

"They "marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them.​

"But fire came down from heaven and consumed them. Fire coming out of the mouths of the two witnesses. The Bible speaks of fire that will fill the earth someday. Fire from the mouth of a Holy Spirit inspired Bible. There you have it from the horse's mouth. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.

​

"And they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.​

Blood and fire and columns of smoke, as often as they desire.

Blood and fire comes out from the mouth of the Bible, God's Word:

"The third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of water, and they became blood​

​

"The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues.​

They did not repent and give him glory.​

​

It's a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. .​

​

Follow the Lamb,​

Wherever He goes.​

​

Peaceful Sabbath.​

​

When the Fire Comes Down From Heaven
Hank Williams

Way back in the days of Noah
Water covered all this land
Then the great rainbow of promise
Started up on life again

And the Good Book tells of fires
That will fill the earth some day
Then the sinful will be screamin'
As this earth shall pass away

When the fire
(When the fire)
Comes down from Heaven
(Comes down from Heaven)

This old world
(This old world)
Will melt away
(Will melt away)

Millions then
(Millions then)
Will cry for mercy
(Will cry for mercy)

But it will be
(But it will be)
Too late to pray

Oh, this world is at a tremble
And it's rockin' to and fro
You can read it in the papers
Hear it on the radio

In the movies, they are showin'
Towns and cities, how they blaze
But there's hotter fire a comin'
If we follow sin's highway

When the fire
(When the fire)
Comes down from Heaven
(Comes down from Heaven)

This old world
(This old world)
Will melt away
(Will melt away)

Millions then
(Millions then)
Will cry for mercy
(Will cry for mercy)

But it will be
(But it will be)
Too late to pray

Texas City, Texas City
Oh, how awful was her fate
First she burned and then exploded
Now the story, we'll relate

Of the Winecoff in Atlanta
How she burned right to the ground
Of the great fire in Chicago
And the dead lay all around

When the fire
(When the fire)
Comes down from Heaven
(Comes down from Heaven)

This old world
(This old world)
Will melt away
(Will melt away)

Millions then
(Millions then)
Will cry for mercy
(Will cry for mercy)

But it will be
(But it will be)
Too late to pray

What we have to keep in mind is that through the 144,000 plus it is the word of God and the Holy Spirit that has sealed them and working through them as there is nothing they or we can do of ourselves.

 

[Dave Watchman]

What we have to keep in mind is that through the 144,000 plus it is the word of God and the Holy Spirit that has sealed them and working through them as there is nothing they or we can do of ourselves.

I agree. But these people will be the superstars of the tribulation. It's going to be the closest thing for people at the time to meet a Paul or a John or an Ezekiel in person. These people are going to have eaten the little scroll from the angel's hand. They are going to be empowered by the Holy Spirit with the true Biblical knowledge that we can only dream of.

I think it's these guys, spread out all over the globe, that the beast who ascended from the bottomless pit makes war on and kills. And their bodies lay dead in the street in every jurisdiction on earth. I saw a math guy calculate there would be one of them for every 50,000 of us.

"But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.​

I think these guys get to Heaven a couple of days before us. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb. They sing a new song that nobody can know. And follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

Virgins just means they haven't been defiled by a church doctrine. A church is a "woman", a bad church is a "harlot". And there is a mother of harlots.

(PS: I miss the feel of the old forum software)

 

[DiscipleDave]

In Those two scriptures you gave it was Elias who is the Greek form of Elijah and Moses who appeared with Jesus in the transfiguration, not Enoch.

Moses died and then His spirit was seen in the transfiguration, yes? The prophet Samuel died and was sleeping when King Saul raised him from his sleep and spoke with him, yes? Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah, which even John the Baptist did not know that information. Is it possible or impossible that Moses is Enoch?

I believe this verse means those who are still alive at the second coming of Jesus as He comes with great power. I put the emphasis on the words "there be some of them that stand here", meaning those that stand here on earth who are still alive and have not died yet before His coming with all power and authority from heaven. It doesn't say stand here right now where Jesus, Peter, James and John were standing as we know Peter, James and John all lay asleep in the grave till Jesus returns again.

IN the context in which Jesus said it, there were some standing there who would see Him return. Jesus stood in the Temple and said "I will destroy this Temple and rebuild it in three days" They thought He was talking about the Temple He was standing in when He said it. Jesus said "There are some standing here who shall not taste of death till I come" He was not necessarily referring to flesh, but referring to the Spirits that were in those people. Everyone has a spirit that in them. If a person dies a True Christian, that spirit sleeps till Christ returns. If a person dies and they are not Christian their spirit does NOT sleep in Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree. But these people will be the superstars of the tribulation. It's going to be the closest thing for people at the time to meet a Paul or a John or an Ezekiel in person. These people are going to have eaten the little scroll from the angel's hand. They are going to be empowered by the Holy Spirit with the true Biblical knowledge that we can only dream of.

I think it's these guys, spread out all over the globe, that the beast who ascended from the bottomless pit makes war on and kills. And their bodies lay dead in the street in every jurisdiction on earth. I saw a math guy calculate there would be one of them for every 50,000 of us.

"But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.​

I think these guys get to Heaven a couple of days before us. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb. They sing a new song that nobody can know. And follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

Virgins just means they haven't been defiled by a church doctrine. A church is a "woman", a bad church is a "harlot". And there is a mother of harlots.

(PS: I miss the feel of the old forum software)

It's not only the 144,000 that are empowered by the Holy Spirit as it is all who are in Christ and He in them that are not only indwelled, but also empowered and obtain all knowledge through the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:12-16. All of us has a witness and a testimony of Christ and are sealed unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 1:13, 14. It's just that many do not realize this empowerment as they do not study the deeper things of the word of God.

If you go back to my post #37 you will see my teaching on the two witnesses. The two witnesses have always been the word of God and the Holy Spirit that confirms that of what has already been written and has been even before the foundation of the world. Just as the Disciples were only to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and Paul to the Gentiles so has it always been and will be until Christ returns.

 

[for_his_glory]

Moses died and then His spirit was seen in the transfiguration, yes? The prophet Samuel died and was sleeping when King Saul raised him from his sleep and spoke with him, yes? Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah, which even John the Baptist did not know that information. Is it possible or impossible that Moses is Enoch?



IN the context in which Jesus said it, there were some standing there who would see Him return. Jesus stood in the Temple and said "I will destroy this Temple and rebuild it in three days" They thought He was talking about the Temple He was standing in when He said it. Jesus said "There are some standing here who shall not taste of death till I come" He was not necessarily referring to flesh, but referring to the Spirits that were in those people. Everyone has a spirit that in them. If a person dies a True Christian, that spirit sleeps till Christ returns. If a person dies and they are not Christian their spirit does NOT sleep in Christ.

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

Jesus calling John the Baptist Elijah does not mean he was Elijah, but that John would come in the same spirit and power that was given to Elijah by God, 2 Kings 1:1-14, Malachi 4:5, 6; Luke 1:5-17. In Luke 1:21 John said he was not Elijah when they asked of him.

It wasn't Samuel that King Saul raised from the dead, but that of a familiar spirit that rose to deceive him. 1Samuel 28:12-20 this women used a familiar spirit that took on the form of Samuel as this is why the scripture says Samuel spoke. Look closely at vs. 14, Saul ask what form is he of and the women describe the form and Saul stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself before the form, not actually seeing it, but only perceiving it was Samuel. The familiar spirit only spoke of things that Saul already knew about God being quiet and why He was quiet toward Saul. The familiar spirit never gave Saul an answer of what he should do. Then the familiar spirit proceeded to tell Saul what was about to happen to him and his sons that they would be in the ground from wench the familiar spirit came from.

Matthew 16: 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus said there will be, not there are. Be is future tense and are is present tense.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13.

Amen, this is True.

Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave

This is Not Scripturally True. Lazarus was dead for four days and rose back to life. Many people have died and been brought back to life again. The girl that died in the days of Jesus, her spirit returned to her and she then lived again.

Jesus calling John the Baptist Elijah does not mean he was Elijah, but that John would come in the same spirit and power that was given to Elijah by God, 2 Kings 1:1-14, Malachi 4:5, 6; Luke 1:5-17. In Luke 1:21 John said he was not Elijah when they asked of him.

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus just said Elias has came and they did not recognize him. And the Apostle of Jesus Christ knew that Elias was John the Baptist. Believe Scriptures not what people teach.

John is not the Son of God. If John says he is not Elias, but Jesus Christ says John is Elias, who do you think is correct and who does not know? John did not know that his spirit was Elias, but Jesus Christ knew and said as much. Believe Jesus and not what people of this generation teach.

It wasn't Samuel that King Saul raised from the dead, but that of a familiar spirit that rose to deceive him.

Believe Scriptures not what people teach. Scriptures plainly teaches it was indeed Samuel.

1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
1Sa 28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

Scriptures plainly teach it was Samuel that spoke to King Saul. Believe the Word of God and not what people teach. Also if you read the rest, Samuel who was a prophet of God, gave even more prophesies that CAME TRUE, so it was Samuel and not a familiar spirit.

1Samuel 28:12-20 this women used a familiar spirit that took on the form of Samuel as this is why the scripture says Samuel spoke. Look closely at vs. 14, Saul ask what form is he of and the women describe the form and Saul stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself before the form, not actually seeing it, but only perceiving it was Samuel. The familiar spirit only spoke of things that Saul already knew about God being quiet and why He was quiet toward Saul. The familiar spirit never gave Saul an answer of what he should do. Then the familiar spirit proceeded to tell Saul what was about to happen to him and his sons that they would be in the ground from wench the familiar spirit came from.

And you can believe that, but if your saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE that it was actually Samuel, then you would be incorrect.

Matthew 16: 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus said there will be, not there are. Be is future tense and are is present tense.

It does not say "WILL BE" like you are saying here, it plainly says "There BE" which most certainly is present tense. Now if you add the word "WILL" like you have done, then yeah, you make it future tense. But let us not add to the Word of God what is not there. Jesus said "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" That is a TRUE statement, NOTHING added. Believe it, don't interpret it.

Interpretations belong to God NOT TO MEN.

 

[Garion]

I agree. But these people will be the superstars of the tribulation. It's going to be the closest thing for people at the time to meet a Paul or a John or an Ezekiel in person. These people are going to have eaten the little scroll from the angel's hand. They are going to be empowered by the Holy Spirit with the true Biblical knowledge that we can only dream of.

I think it's these guys, spread out all over the globe, that the beast who ascended from the bottomless pit makes war on and kills. And their bodies lay dead in the street in every jurisdiction on earth. I saw a math guy calculate there would be one of them for every 50,000 of us.

"But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.​

I think these guys get to Heaven a couple of days before us. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb. They sing a new song that nobody can know. And follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

Virgins just means they haven't been defiled by a church doctrine. A church is a "woman", a bad church is a "harlot". And there is a mother of harlots.

(PS: I miss the feel of the old forum software)

You are so smart, I mean you totally figured it out... God must have told you man.

Thanks for the clarification, I'm kinda crazy but God tells me stuff and He said that there are people witnessing for Him all over the world because He needs just cause before He ends it.

I asked Him once why He talk to me and He say because my understanding of His advice hasn't been corrupted.