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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Growth Understanding Baptism ?
- Thread starter grams
- Start date
dadof10
Member
Pretty cut-and-dry Biblical teaching that water baptism saves. So, yes, it is necessary.
who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (1Pe 3:20-22 RSV)
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. (1Pe 3:20-22 KJV)
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. (1Pe 3:20-22 NASB)
B
Brother Mike
Guest
I am always right, what does the comment mean we can't always be right?
Thank you for the scriptures. The deal is though, even if you believe to just be Baptized with the Holy Spirit in power to be a witness with tongues and other helpful supernatural gifts. Peter said getting dunked in water is a good conscience toward God.
If someone believes they need dunked in water, then you would not ask them to violate that conscience. It's like eating food sacrificed to Idols when your faith is weak. Both are bad.
There is scripture proof that getting dunked in water is not a must to have eternal life. Believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth, you shall be saved.
HOWEVER:
There is no scripture saying not to be dunked in water either. To say that we don't need dunked in Water, would mean there is scripture saying that also, and it's not there. The inclusion of one, does not make the other obsolete. The other must be marked obsolete, and it's not.
Time for a nice pork Sandwich, and some shellfish.
Mike.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I hope you don't think I'm suggesting there is some kind of power in the water of baptism itself. No, the power lies in the determination to submit to what Jesus commanded be done to the disciples of Christ in all the nations of the world (Matthew 28:19-20). If a particular body of water is unsuitable, for whatever reason, just get another one.
Peter says water baptism is "the pledge of a clear conscience toward God" (1 Peter 3:21 NASB). It's the believer's bold first steps into his/her witness for Christ. Instead of one's conversion and pledge to live for Christ being a secret thing, which has a greater potential to fail because it is secret, your decision to live for Christ is made public and two things happen: 1) you have a sense of accountability because now everyone knows you've made a decision to live for Christ, and 2) you unleash power for bold witness for Christ--something happens inside that helps remove hindrances to being afraid to declare that you are now living for Christ and the kingdom. God seems to know if he can just get you to put one foot in front of the other and start moving in obedience to godly witness for him you're developing momentum toward a lifestyle of such witness.
Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Would not John's baptism with the (believe in the one who comes after me) be in in kingdom teaching?
I understand piles of information:
Past - Present - Future
I Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
The law can define sin, but it does not provide righteousness, as Jesus does.
John's baptism prepared the way for Jesus. If we do not feel undone in our sin, will we ever seek salvation in Christ Jesus? I understand symbols are not the reality. I also understand that Jewish persons wrote the NT. I understand that I am grafted in to the root. This is all in the kingdom pile.
I realize I do not fit in clearly historical boxes. My foundation is God. My cornerstone is Jesus. The foundation stones are the Apostles. The twelve gates bear the names of the children of Israel. I see through a glass darkly, but by grace I am not blind.
Which baptism am I Baptised into?
Father- I sinned against a holy God - I repented
Son - Jesus died for sins / sin nature - I believed
Holy Spirit - called to be a witness I was weak- I received the Holy Spirit for power I did not have
All this is pretty interesting. Romans 7:25 kind of suggests a flesh pile and a mind pile.
Reality pile and shadow pile. Divide and deposit in correct place. Take protein and split it into amino acids - place where needed for growth.
eddif
Last edited:
Of course it would, as he preached the kingdom of God.
Great Point!
I just don't understand how anyone can possibly think that water Baptism is not a biblical requirement for those who believe.
Paul taught there were three distinct Baptism's foreshadowed for us today.
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as weresome of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now allthese things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
1 Corinthians 10:1-11
We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit: Spiritual Birth
We are baptized in water.
We are baptized by Christ in the Holy Spirit and fire.
- Paul demonstrated 3 Baptisms. Acts 19:5-6
- Jesus taught three Baptisms. Matthew 28:19
- Hebrews refers to baptisms; plural Hebrews 6:2
JLB
It's you.
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. Acts 10:44-48
The Apostle Peter seemed to have the understanding that Gentiles were to be baptized in water, even though they were baptized in the Holy Spirit.
JLB
May be this will help some to understand ? Things are not the same now as they once were .
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the world of truth."(2 Tim. 2.15)
· Have you ever wondered why today's Christians can eat pork even though in the Old Testament men were forbidden to do so?
· Or, do you know people (or, perhaps yourself) who shun Christianity because Christians can't seem to agree on anything?
· And what about all those contractions in the Bible?
These are all valid concerns, but when a person begins to "rightly divide" the word of truth, as admonished by Paul to Timothy, these seeming difficulties and disputations are resolved. To "rightly divide" means that God has dealt with mankind at different times with different expectations from him. Although it is profitable for us to read the entire Bible (2Tim.3:16), it is imperative that we understand which part of the Bible is intended primarily for us in this time of Grace. The following excerpt from the book "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam explains:
"If I should step inside a modern United States Post Office all would doubtless seem very confusing to me. But it would be a mistake to suggest piling all the mail neatly into one corner and handing it out promiscuously to all comers as some would do with the Bible. The postal employees must rightly divide the mail so that each person receives what is addressed to him. What seems like confusion to the novice is really a simplification of the work to be done in getting each person's private mail
to him.
It is granted that in the Bible even that which was addressed to those of other dispensations is given to us for our learning and profit, but we must not confuse this with our own private mail or make the mistake of carrying out instructions meant particularly for others.
While I am reading mail addressed personally to me, a friend may hand me, for my interest or information, mail addressed to him. His mail and mine may all prove informative and profitable, but I must still be careful not to confuse the two, expecting to receive things promised to him or carrying out instructions addressed to him.
Thus, all the Bible is for us, but it is not all addressed to us or written about us, and if we would really understand and enjoy it; if we would really know how to use it effectively in service for Christ, we must be careful always to note who is addressing whom, about what and when and why" (p.20).
In every dispensation, righteousness before God has always been achieved by believing what God has said and acting upon it. For example, the law required every male child to be circumcised, but that is not God's requirement today.
The LAW says: And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen. 17:14.
But GRACE says: And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands...Col. 2:10,11.
There were also many dietary laws, and one in particular many people remember is the prohibition not to eat pork. But under the dispensation of Grace, we are not under those prohibitions.
The LAW says: And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass. Deut. 14:8
But GRACE says: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1Tim: 4:4
And the Sabbath day. In our day of grace, one day is like unto another. All are to be lived to the glory of God.
The Law says: Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God...Ex. 20:8,10.
But GRACE says: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days... Col.2:16,17
And because of the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross, we are no longer under any provision of the law for the forgiveness of sin.
The Law says: And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (Matt. 6:12) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matt. 6:14,15.
But GRACE says: And ye be kind one to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you. Eph. 4.32.
The ultimate example of the difference between law and grace is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The law required annual blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins, which we now understand were but a foreshadow of the ultimate sacrifice Christ Jesus would make for the complete payment for all of our sins.
The Law says: The blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifiethto the purifying of the flesh. Heb. 9:13
But GRACE says: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Romans 10:4)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8,9)
Where the dispensation of the law was entrusted to Moses (John 1:17), the dispensation of the grace of God was entrusted to Paul. Why is understanding this so important? Because it is by this message of grace, dispensed by Paul, that God will judge us. Remember, righteousness comes by believing what God says (i.e., what God is saying to us in this age of Grace) and acting on it. That is what faith is: believing God; trusting Him and His Word. Paul says in Romans 2:16:
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY Gospel.
Paul tells us that he was appointed by God to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the Gentiles,..." (Ro. 11:13) and that his message was revealed to him directly by Jesus Christ:
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached to of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal.1:11,12)
How then does Paul's gospel differ? Pastor Thomas Brusha, in his booklet "Dictionary of the Gospel" gives a clear explanation:
God promised in the Old Testament to set up a Kingdom here on earth through the nation Israel, in which Christ would reign as King! Christ was here; and the good news proclaimed was that the Kingdom was at hand. In Matthew 10:7 we find this to be the same gospel the Twelve Apostles were sent to preach. Also, in Matthew 10:5,6 we learn that this gospel was good news for the Nation of Israel. It is amazing, yet true, that after the Twelve Apostles had been preaching this gospel now, for some time, they still did not know about Christ's purpose to go to the Cross and die for their sins. We know this is true because when Christ began later to tell his Apostles that he was going to Jerusalem to die, they didn't believe him, nor did they understand what he was talking about. The reason being, they were preaching the good news about the Kingdom. They expected Christ to establish Israel's Kingdom and to take the throne as their King - see Matthew 16:21,22; Luke 18:31-34: and Luke 19:11.
How then, could the twelve Apostles have preached the same gospel the Apostle Paul later preached, when they did not know or understand anything about the Cross at that time? Paul preached :
"THE CROSS" and "CHRIST CRUCIFIED (1 Corinthians 1:18,23)
The point is this. The gospel that the Twelve Apostles preached during the earthly ministry of Christ is not the same gospel the Apostle Paul was sent to preach later. According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the gospel Paul preached was the GOOD NEWS of the DEATH, BURIAL, and RESURRECTION of Christ FOR OUR SINS.
Paul tells us in Galatians 1:11,12 where his gospel originated. It was after the resurrection and ascension that the Lord Jesus Christ revealed to the Apostle Paul all that was accomplished on the Cross. In acts 20:24 Paul calls this message "THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD." In Galatians 2:1,2 we see that this gospel is intended for the Gentiles as well as the Jews; and in Galatians 2:6-10 we find that the Twelve Apostles learned of this gospel from Paul.
In this present age of "GRACE", God has set Israel as a nation aside, and the Kingdom promised to them has been postponed until a future time. Therefore the "GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM" is NOT God's message of good news for today, but rather the good news of how the Cross saves Sinners of all nationalities. This is God's message for today! (pp6-8).
The following books are recommended:
"Dictionary of the Gospel" by Thomas Bruscha
"Things That Differ" by C. R. Stam
"The Dispensations" by Hazel I. Brown
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the world of truth."(2 Tim. 2.15)
· Have you ever wondered why today's Christians can eat pork even though in the Old Testament men were forbidden to do so?
· Or, do you know people (or, perhaps yourself) who shun Christianity because Christians can't seem to agree on anything?
· And what about all those contractions in the Bible?
These are all valid concerns, but when a person begins to "rightly divide" the word of truth, as admonished by Paul to Timothy, these seeming difficulties and disputations are resolved. To "rightly divide" means that God has dealt with mankind at different times with different expectations from him. Although it is profitable for us to read the entire Bible (2Tim.3:16), it is imperative that we understand which part of the Bible is intended primarily for us in this time of Grace. The following excerpt from the book "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam explains:
"If I should step inside a modern United States Post Office all would doubtless seem very confusing to me. But it would be a mistake to suggest piling all the mail neatly into one corner and handing it out promiscuously to all comers as some would do with the Bible. The postal employees must rightly divide the mail so that each person receives what is addressed to him. What seems like confusion to the novice is really a simplification of the work to be done in getting each person's private mail
to him.
It is granted that in the Bible even that which was addressed to those of other dispensations is given to us for our learning and profit, but we must not confuse this with our own private mail or make the mistake of carrying out instructions meant particularly for others.
While I am reading mail addressed personally to me, a friend may hand me, for my interest or information, mail addressed to him. His mail and mine may all prove informative and profitable, but I must still be careful not to confuse the two, expecting to receive things promised to him or carrying out instructions addressed to him.
Thus, all the Bible is for us, but it is not all addressed to us or written about us, and if we would really understand and enjoy it; if we would really know how to use it effectively in service for Christ, we must be careful always to note who is addressing whom, about what and when and why" (p.20).
In every dispensation, righteousness before God has always been achieved by believing what God has said and acting upon it. For example, the law required every male child to be circumcised, but that is not God's requirement today.
The LAW says: And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen. 17:14.
But GRACE says: And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands...Col. 2:10,11.
There were also many dietary laws, and one in particular many people remember is the prohibition not to eat pork. But under the dispensation of Grace, we are not under those prohibitions.
The LAW says: And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass. Deut. 14:8
But GRACE says: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1Tim: 4:4
And the Sabbath day. In our day of grace, one day is like unto another. All are to be lived to the glory of God.
The Law says: Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God...Ex. 20:8,10.
But GRACE says: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days... Col.2:16,17
And because of the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross, we are no longer under any provision of the law for the forgiveness of sin.
The Law says: And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (Matt. 6:12) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matt. 6:14,15.
But GRACE says: And ye be kind one to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you. Eph. 4.32.
The ultimate example of the difference between law and grace is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The law required annual blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins, which we now understand were but a foreshadow of the ultimate sacrifice Christ Jesus would make for the complete payment for all of our sins.
The Law says: The blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifiethto the purifying of the flesh. Heb. 9:13
But GRACE says: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Romans 10:4)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8,9)
Where the dispensation of the law was entrusted to Moses (John 1:17), the dispensation of the grace of God was entrusted to Paul. Why is understanding this so important? Because it is by this message of grace, dispensed by Paul, that God will judge us. Remember, righteousness comes by believing what God says (i.e., what God is saying to us in this age of Grace) and acting on it. That is what faith is: believing God; trusting Him and His Word. Paul says in Romans 2:16:
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY Gospel.
Paul tells us that he was appointed by God to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the Gentiles,..." (Ro. 11:13) and that his message was revealed to him directly by Jesus Christ:
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached to of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal.1:11,12)
How then does Paul's gospel differ? Pastor Thomas Brusha, in his booklet "Dictionary of the Gospel" gives a clear explanation:
God promised in the Old Testament to set up a Kingdom here on earth through the nation Israel, in which Christ would reign as King! Christ was here; and the good news proclaimed was that the Kingdom was at hand. In Matthew 10:7 we find this to be the same gospel the Twelve Apostles were sent to preach. Also, in Matthew 10:5,6 we learn that this gospel was good news for the Nation of Israel. It is amazing, yet true, that after the Twelve Apostles had been preaching this gospel now, for some time, they still did not know about Christ's purpose to go to the Cross and die for their sins. We know this is true because when Christ began later to tell his Apostles that he was going to Jerusalem to die, they didn't believe him, nor did they understand what he was talking about. The reason being, they were preaching the good news about the Kingdom. They expected Christ to establish Israel's Kingdom and to take the throne as their King - see Matthew 16:21,22; Luke 18:31-34: and Luke 19:11.
How then, could the twelve Apostles have preached the same gospel the Apostle Paul later preached, when they did not know or understand anything about the Cross at that time? Paul preached :
"THE CROSS" and "CHRIST CRUCIFIED (1 Corinthians 1:18,23)
The point is this. The gospel that the Twelve Apostles preached during the earthly ministry of Christ is not the same gospel the Apostle Paul was sent to preach later. According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the gospel Paul preached was the GOOD NEWS of the DEATH, BURIAL, and RESURRECTION of Christ FOR OUR SINS.
Paul tells us in Galatians 1:11,12 where his gospel originated. It was after the resurrection and ascension that the Lord Jesus Christ revealed to the Apostle Paul all that was accomplished on the Cross. In acts 20:24 Paul calls this message "THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD." In Galatians 2:1,2 we see that this gospel is intended for the Gentiles as well as the Jews; and in Galatians 2:6-10 we find that the Twelve Apostles learned of this gospel from Paul.
In this present age of "GRACE", God has set Israel as a nation aside, and the Kingdom promised to them has been postponed until a future time. Therefore the "GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM" is NOT God's message of good news for today, but rather the good news of how the Cross saves Sinners of all nationalities. This is God's message for today! (pp6-8).
The following books are recommended:
"Dictionary of the Gospel" by Thomas Bruscha
"Things That Differ" by C. R. Stam
"The Dispensations" by Hazel I. Brown
Please list the scriptures that seem to contradict each other.
Could it be that it is us who do not understand?
JLB
The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Luke 16:16
Can you rightly divide here, that John's Baptism came after the law and the prophets.
And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:45-48
Can you rightly divide here that... Peter commanded them to be baptized in water, after they had received the Holy Spirit.
Do you think this was for just Cornelius and his household?
Or maybe this letter was just meant for the Roman Christians, and does not apply to us.
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4
JLB
LovethroughDove
Member
I believe Peter was stating that the water and Holy Spirit are synonymous. People around him who knew of water baptism, were probably like....huh?!
Acts 19:3-6 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Galatians 3:26-27 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
LovethroughDove
Member
1 Peter 3:20-21 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also - not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of good conscience toward God.
I see it as the deposit of the Holy Spirit and my good conscience toward God.
Romans 6:3-4 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may life a new life. (baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) Matt 28:19
Jethro Bodine
Member
If water baptism is the moment you receive the Holy Spirit in salvation, or receive an empowering of the Holy Spirit, so be it. It's certainly Biblical for that to happen. Especially if that's the way the gospel was presented to you and, thus, what your faith is geared up to receive.
It's this aspect of "the pledge of a good conscience toward God" (1 Peter 3:21 NASB) that I think is important for where the Protestant Church is, generally speaking, right now. We get baptized to declare our pledge of a good conscience toward God. Jesus said to baptize all the nations and I can't think of any reason to disobey him, especially since Jesus said those who will be saved believe and are baptized. They show they have the faith that justifies/ saves by being obedient to the command to be water baptized (and all of Christ's commands).
Of the handful of 'Christians' I know who resisted getting baptized, all of them had weak faith, not a vibrant, sold out faith for Christ. That tells me something. Note, I didn't say 'no faith'. I said weak faith. But I'm sure there are those who don't get water baptized for other reasons (and are still saved), mainly their church taught them that it is not necessary to do.
Jethro Bodine
Member
The waters of Noah's flood was the symbol of water baptism. But so many people read this as the waters of baptism are the symbol. Which they are (of the Holy Spirit), but not in this particular context in 1 Peter 3.
The waters of Noah's flood symbolize the practice of water baptism. Water baptism which saves you, not because it has some literal cleansing power to save, but because it is the pledge of the believer to a good (clean) conscience toward God. IOW, it is faith expressed in a repentant attitude toward sin that saves. Water baptism is a commanded way that we do that.
LovethroughDove
Member
Yes, that could possibly happen. You receive the Holy Spirit baptism when you (believe), so maybe someone really believes as they are getting dunked. That's not how I got baptized in the Spirit.
I know that when the Holy Spirit fell upon Jesus at the baptism, that is where we have a new baptism process.
Jethro Bodine
Member
And not just receiving the Holy Spirit in salvation at water baptism, but receiving THE baptism of the Holy Spirit in regard to the empowering of a spiritual gift at water baptism.
Even though God is sovereign and does whatever he wants, what happens at your water baptism really depends on what you are taught, because what ever you are told happens at water baptism is where your faith will be at, and God will respond accordingly.
LovethroughDove
Member
I was water baptized as a baby, so I had no clue. But, I was totally illuminated to water baptism through my kids and looking back at this after being Holy Spirit baptized.
I baptized my children and had many witnesses and whatnot. Had a huge family gathering. We had the priest at my grandmother's church baptize them. There had been rumors that he had been looking at naughty websites as a priest. Okay, I can look past that cause I just want my children baptized. I just care about my children's spiritual standing. Fast forward after the baptism and we are sitting at my in-laws with everyone gathered to celebrate. My mom and her friend who were head of the folk group at their church, start laughing about this particular priest baptizing my kids. I got so beyond pissed off! Either they are being complete hypocrites and bashing a special moment or they are right about a flawed person performing a Holy event.
Well, both! I am sure there are people who the water baptism completely changes their spiritual walk. I am going on the record as saying our baptism with water has changed since Jesus entered the water and the Holy Spirit came into the picture.