Understanding Christianity and Islam

[Ed the Ned]

francisdesales, Why did Christ die? Why do we send missionaries into Muslim countries to proclaim the gospel? Our God has one plan for us and that plan is set out in scripture. (The Bible). Not the Quran, not through the "prophet" Mohamed. We cannot proclaim a social or politically acceptable gospel just so we can pursue peace. By saying that the Muslim god is the same God as our God is ludicrous. Are the mormon teachings acceptable to you as well. We are warned about false teachings and deception, yet to keep the peace we have these multi-religion conferences where the Christians sell out to be a more acceptable religion, tolerant of all the world has to offer. I am accountable to God and I am accountable to my fellow Christians to be true to the gospel and to Gods instruction. If I steer off course I would expect my fellow christians to lead me back on the narrow path. I am not asking you or anyone to agree with me. We all have our choices to make and our beliefs to follow. I respect you beliefs, but I do not agree with them.

 

[bodhitharta]

What does it matter what the purpose of any religion is?

Keeping the ten commandments can't save you. Islam can't save you. Buddhism can't save you. Mormonism can't save you. Judaism can't save you. Even christianity can't save you.

Salvation is only found in and through - Christ Jesus - who came to give man life.

Can the One who sent Jesus save you?

 

[bodhitharta]

Allah is simply Arabic for God. In Aramaic it is Ellaha. Arab Christians use the word Allah for God as well. They pray to God (Allah). Different languages have equivalent words for everything. That's what makes a language different!

Allah is not equivalent to the Chiristian God. Despite the fact that most Christians don't use it, God told us his name is YHVH (YHWH) which we intepret as Yahweh. According to this site Allah means:

"Allah" comes from the Arabic word "elah"a god' or something worshiped. - (Arabic) means '

This word (elah) can be made plural (gods), as in "aleha" and it can be male or female just as the word in English can be "goddess."

"Allah" comes from "elaha" but it brings more clarification and understanding.

Allah = Has no gender (not male and not female)
"He" is used only out of respect and dignity - not for gender
Allah = Always singular - Never plural
"We" is used only as the "Royal WE" just as in English for royalty
Allah = Means "The Only One to be Worshipped"

Yahweh means, I Am who I Am. And He gave this name to his Son, Yahushua, " I Am Savior." Since muslims don't believe YHWH had a Son, and has given God's name a different meaning, we couldn't possibly be talking about the same God.


Deirdre

what does "I am Saviour" have to do with "son" Jesus said God sent him The Anointed one and we all agree with that, that Jesus is The Messiah, Muslims believe that and it is written in the Quran so what why wouldn't it be the same God?

Didn't Jesus say about "Our Father" Hallowed be THY NAME? Si if Jesus doesn't say the Sacred name why should you? Allah means "The God" this is THE GOD who sent Jesus into the world this is THE GOD of ABRAHAM, MOSES, ELIJAH and JESUS.

Do you believe that Jesus has a God?

 

[bodhitharta]

Muslims do not believe there is more than one transcendant and immutable creator of the universe. There is only one, in their mind. Thus, they worship the same ONE God we worship, the same ONE God who created the universe. This talk about a Son does not mean they worship another creator of the universe, but that their knowledge of the God Who Is is lacking.

Regards

There is only one 'God' in the mind of many religions. What does that prove? If I tell you my name is important and my name is Deirdre, then I would not repsond to you if you called me Rachel or by any other name. Who do we think we are to have God tell us His name, YHWH and then have the nerve to change it? Allah is not a translation or transliteration of the name YHWH....its just a different word, with a different meaning.

But riddle me this....if we all worship the same God, then why do muslim scritpures state;
--those who broke the Sabbath were turned into apes
--worship the God of Abraham,Ismael and Issac
--The only true faith in God's sight is Islam
--deny Abraham was Jewish
--muslim believers should ony make friends with other muslim believers
--deny the crucifixton of Christ
--deny the Father had a Son
--Take neither Jews or Christians as friends
--make war on unbelievers
--paradise is full of bashful virgins and young boys?

How can two walk together unles they agree? The god who inspired the above is not the same God that inspired the Old and New Testaments.

--Deirdre

How could Abraham have been Jewish? Please explain

 

[D4Christ]

what does "I am Saviour" have to do with "son" Jesus said God sent him The Anointed one and we all agree with that, that Jesus is The Messiah, Muslims believe that and it is written in the Quran so what why wouldn't it be the same God?

Didn't Jesus say about "Our Father" Hallowed be THY NAME? Si if Jesus doesn't say the Sacred name why should you? Allah means "The God" this is THE GOD who sent Jesus into the world this is THE GOD of ABRAHAM, MOSES, ELIJAH and JESUS.

Do you believe that Jesus has a God?

Not's let get it twisted. Christ refers to YHWH as His Father and we all know muslims don't believe God has a Son. Why should Christ walk around saying YHWH this or that. YHWH is his dad and that's what He calls Him. I don't walk around calling my parents by their first name either...in my culture it is considered disrespectful.

The reason we should say God's name is because that is what we are instructed to do. The only reason we don't is because Jews thought His name was so sacred that they removed it from their texts and replaced it with Adonnai or Lord. That's man's mistake and scriptures predicted it when they said, 'they will forget HIs name.' But there is power in the True name of God and I'm sure Satan loves confusing the issue with people who suggest that you can call The Father anything and it will mean the same thing.

The supreme being over all is YHWH. Christ understod this even though he is God by nature. He understands and will place himself under HIs Father's authority, which means, He is subordinate to the Father.

Riddle me this....if you can acknowledge Christ called YHWH HiIs father then how could you possibly think that Muhammed could have any insight greater than God's own Son?

 

[D4Christ]

How could Abraham have been Jewish? Please explain

Romans 4

Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? 2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. 3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith."

Romans 2

28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God’s Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.

Romans 4

9 Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles?[c] Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised!

11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteousâ€â€even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.

 

[bodhitharta]

what does "I am Saviour" have to do with "son" Jesus said God sent him The Anointed one and we all agree with that, that Jesus is The Messiah, Muslims believe that and it is written in the Quran so what why wouldn't it be the same God?

Didn't Jesus say about "Our Father" Hallowed be THY NAME? Si if Jesus doesn't say the Sacred name why should you? Allah means "The God" this is THE GOD who sent Jesus into the world this is THE GOD of ABRAHAM, MOSES, ELIJAH and JESUS.

Do you believe that Jesus has a God?

Not's let get it twisted. Christ refers to YHWH as His Father and we all know muslims don't believe God has a Son. Why should Christ walk around saying YHWH this or that. YHWH is his dad and that's what He calls Him. I don't walk around calling my parents by their first name either...in my culture it is considered disrespectful.

The reason we should say God's name is because that is what we are instructed to do. The only reason we don't is because Jews thought His name was so sacred that they removed it from their texts and replaced it with Adonnai or Lord. That's man's mistake and scriptures predicted it when they said, 'they will forget HIs name.' But there is power in the True name of God and I'm sure Satan loves confusing the issue with people who suggest that you can call The Father anything and it will mean the same thing.

The supreme being over all is YHWH. Christ understod this even though he is God by nature. He understands and will place himself under HIs Father's authority, which means, He is subordinate to the Father.

Riddle me this....if you can acknowledge Christ called YHWH HiIs father then how could you possibly think that Muhammed could have any insight greater than God's own Son?

Jesus taught you to pray "Our Father" not our"Y__H" and remember he taught this before the Cross so we were already God's children according to the scriptures but the fact is "Son" is a term of affection not of literalness with God for God doesn't "beget" Children like we beget children and with Jesus what makes him unique is that God created Jesus simply by saying "Be" so he was gotten with a word from God.

 

[bodhitharta]

Romans 4

Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? 2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. 3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith."

D4Christ,

The term Jewish is derived from the tribe of Judah which was one of the tribes of Israel who was formerly know as Jacob who was a son of Isaac who was a son of Abraham. So the fact is that Abraham was never a Jew or a Christian nor would he have even ever heard the term.

So, that is why Muslims say that Abraham was Muslim because the term Muslim is based upon an action i.e. submission to God and not based on the name of a tribe(Judaism) or a Title(Christian) but for a Jew to follow Christ he would have to Submit to God(Muslim) hasn't God been asking for the entire history of the Jewish people for them to simply Submit(Muslim) to Him in Peace(Islam)?

 

[D4Christ]

Jesus taught you to pray "Our Father" not our"Y__H" and remember he taught this before the Cross so we were already God's children according to the scriptures but the fact is "Son" is a term of affection not of literalness with God for God doesn't "beget" Children like we beget children and with Jesus what makes him unique is that God created Jesus simply by saying "Be" so he was gotten with a word from God.

John 3

12 But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his ONE AND ONLY Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.â€Â

Who elese in scripture has God called HIs son? Yet you would reduce this to merely a term of endearment or affection. Here's a newsflah....if you believe all that is written in the book...whether you can understand or expain it all, then you are a Christ follower. If you find yourself changing the scriptures to fit where you are comfortable then go ahead...knock yourself out...but please don't call it Christianity.

 

[D4Christ]

D4Christ,

The term Jewish is derived from the tribe of Judah which was one of the tribes of Israel who was formerly know as Jacob who was a son of Isaac who was a son of Abraham. So the fact is that Abraham was never a Jew or a Christian nor would he have even ever heard the term.

So, that is why Muslims say that Abraham was Muslim because the term Muslim is based upon an action i.e. submission to God and not based on the name of a tribe(Judaism) or a Title(Christian) but for a Jew to follow Christ he would have to Submit to God(Muslim) hasn't God been asking for the entire history of the Jewish people for them to simply Submit(Muslim) to Him in Peace(Islam)?

Scriptures state Abraham was the father of the Jewish nation. And since I don't believe Muhammed or anything he claimed was from God, I could care less what Muslim's call Abraham. All they [muslims] need to do is recognize the saving power of Christ's blood and beleive the Father sent him to save us from the power of sin and that when He finished HIs task on earth He returned to His Father in heaven....with a promise to come back. This is how to get your name in the Book of LIfe. Everything else leads to eternal damnation.

 

[bodhitharta]

Who elese in scripture has God called HIs son? Yet you would reduce this to merely a term of endearment or affection. Here's a newsflah....if you believe all that is written in the book...whether you can understand or expain it all, then you are a Christ follower. If you find yourself changing the scriptures to fit where you are comfortable then go ahead...knock yourself out...but please don't call it Christianity.

God called Solomon His son, he called Adam his son and he called David His son. You didn't know that ?

 

[bodhitharta]

Scriptures state Abraham was the father of the Jewish nation. And since I don't believe Muhammed or anything he claimed was from God, I could care less what Muslim's call Abraham. All they [muslims] need to do is recognize the saving power of Christ's blood and beleive the Father sent him to save us from the power of sin and that when He finished HIs task on earth He returned to His Father in heaven....with a promise to come back. This is how to get your name in the Book of LIfe. Everything else leads to eternal damnation.

If you are saved from the power of sin then why does Jesus say that you must OVERCOME the WORLD?

Here is what the Bible says about sin:

Genesis 4:6-8 (New King James Version)
6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.â€Â

You say that Christ beared a cross for you but Jesus says:

Luke 14: (King James Version)

27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:37-39 (King James Version)

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

 

[Adullam]

There is a common lack of understanding of the role of a Christian. Many have been taught to be passive. They stand idly by thinking any motion on their part would be seen as a works based effort. So no growth in the faith is possible for these. This is a bondage from which few can be made free. It is akin to a spiritual welfare system. Any work is seen as bad. You might get kicked of welfare!

 

[D4Christ]

God called Solomon His son, he called Adam his son and he called David His son. You didn't know that ?

I'm not playing that game. You know that YHWH never promised salvation thru either Adam or David. It is Christ who came from YHWH, sits on His right hand and through whom you need to believe if you claim to believe the Father. If it were not so then the Koran would not complain about this assertion so much.

In typical muslim fashion, you pride yourself on knowing more about the bible than Chrisitians do....but the reality is this.,...you choose the path you will take, as the Father is already aware of which decision you will make. When its all said and done, you will not be able to claim you did not hear message about God's Son.

Deirdre

 

[bodhitharta]

God called Solomon His son, he called Adam his son and he called David His son. You didn't know that ?

I'm not playing that game. You know that YHWH never promised salvation thru either Adam or David. It is Christ who came from YHWH, sits on His right hand and through whom you need to believe if you claim to believe the Father. If it were not so then the Koran would not complain about this assertion so much.

In typical muslim fashion, you pride yourself on knowing more about the bible than Chrisitians do....but the reality is this.,...you choose the path you will take, as the Father is already aware of which decision you will make. When its all said and done, you will not be able to claim you did not hear message about God's Son.

Deirdre

The Quran says that everyone must believe in Jesus, that God sent him


(2) And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #159)

Why do you keep calling me a Muslim is it because I submit to God with all my heart, soul and mind?

 

[D4Christ]

If you are saved from the power of sin then why does Jesus say that you must OVERCOME the WORLD?

John 16

I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world.â€Â

Here is what the Bible says about sin:

Genesis 4:6-8 (New King James Version)
6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.â€Â

When it comes to sin,it no longer has to rule our lives.

Genesis 4 NLT

6 “Why are you so angry?†the Lord asked Cain. “Why do you look so dejected? 7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.â€Â

Romans 6

5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. 7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. 8 And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him. 9 We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 When he died, he died once to break the power of sin. But now that he lives, he lives for the glory of God. 11 So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus.
12 Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to sinful desires. 13 Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God. 14 Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

You say that Christ beared a cross for you but Jesus says:

Luke 14: (King James Version)

27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:37-39 (King James Version)

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

You sound confused. The term cross is a proverbial expression that means for the cause of God, do not hesitate to endure persecutions, troubles, distresses and troubles thus recalling the fate of Christ and the spirit in which he endured it. (Thayer's Lexicon)

But what difference would this make to a muslim that believes Christ faked His own death? Stop trying to blend Christiaity and Islam. If you are going to be a muslim, be the best muslim you can be. At the end Yahushua will recognize you for your effots. :D

--Deirdre

 

[D4Christ]

The Quran says that everyone must believe in Jesus, that God sent him


(2) And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #159)

Yes. And this same Koran states in surah 4:157 "....They declard: "We have put to death the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the apostle of God." They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.

And surah 4:171 claims Jesus was no more than God's apostle and that God dos not have a son.

Why do you keep calling me a Muslim is it because I submit to God with all my heart, soul and mind?

No....,its because if it walks like a duck and quacks like a....... If only you could demonstrate such accuaracy when quoting scripture.....

 

[francisdesales]

There is only one 'God' in the mind of many religions. What does that prove? If I tell you my name is important and my name is Deirdre, then I would not repsond to you if you called me Rachel or by any other name. Who do we think we are to have God tell us His name, YHWH and then have the nerve to change it? Allah is not a translation or transliteration of the name YHWH....its just a different word, with a different meaning.

I think scholars will disagree on whether "YHWH" is actually a name that God calls Himself. YHWH is a Jewish name given to God based on what God said to Moses - I am Who Am. Is that a name like "Rachel" or is it God telling Moses that He is beyond human names, so forget about trying to name God???

Thus, I will disagree with the idea that only Christians (Jews actually) have figured out God's REAL "name".

Furthermore, if I see you, Deirdre, but call you Rachel, am I not addressing the exact same person, albeit the wrong name??? Your argument doesn't make sense to me. The issue is that my knowledge is incomplete, not that I am talking to a different "Deirdre" because I got the name wrong.

But riddle me this....if we all worship the same God, then why do muslim scritpures state;
--those who broke the Sabbath were turned into apes
--worship the God of Abraham,Ismael and Issac
--The only true faith in God's sight is Islam
--deny Abraham was Jewish
--muslim believers should ony make friends with other muslim believers
--deny the crucifixton of Christ
--deny the Father had a Son
--Take neither Jews or Christians as friends
--make war on unbelievers
--paradise is full of bashful virgins and young boys?

Because the Koran is not the unadultered Word of God. Islam is a religion that attempts to reach up to God, rather than relying on God revealing Himself to mankind. It does not build upon what God has already revealed, namely, the divinity of Christ and the rest of Christian beliefs. Islam takes some of the good and invents other things and puts it together and calls it "Islam". Despite their errors, however, they do recognize there is one God, the God of Abraham, the same God we worship.

How can two walk together unles they agree? The god who inspired the above is not the same God that inspired the Old and New Testaments.

Christians appear to walk together, yet do not agree on a number of issues. The idea is to be as Christ, who has broken down the walls that separate. Try to look for what is common among others, rather than focusing on what separates people to maintain that wall broken down previously. God reaches out to all people, and so must we.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

francisdesales, Why did Christ die?

to show the depths of His love for mankind, as St. John relates about "there is no greater love than this..."

Why do we send missionaries into Muslim countries to proclaim the gospel?

To bring them the Gospel, the Good News, that God loves us so much that He gave His only Son up to die. Islam does not teach that Good News. They are in desperate need of a Personal God Who loves.

Our God has one plan for us and that plan is set out in scripture. (The Bible). Not the Quran, not through the "prophet" Mohamed. We cannot proclaim a social or politically acceptable gospel just so we can pursue peace.

I have not said any such thing. Have I said anything preaching relativity? All I said is that Islam worships the same God. I didn't say they had the entire Gospel or that they know God as well as Christians or that they can be saved through Islamic teachings that are particular to Islam...

By saying that the Muslim god is the same God as our God is ludicrous.

Rather than calling this ludicrous, you might want to explain WHY? Because it doesn't suit your personal fancy?

Are the mormon teachings acceptable to you as well. We are warned about false teachings and deception, yet to keep the peace we have these multi-religion conferences where the Christians sell out to be a more acceptable religion, tolerant of all the world has to offer.

You erect a false slippery slope. I have no problems accepting that Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, and even other Christians, have knowledge, to various degrees, of God Himself. None of us has a monopoly on who God is. I do believe that some religions are more in error than others. But that doesn't mean I am selling out. If that were true, I wouldn't be arguing with Protestants on this forum...

None of what I have said denies the Good News and that it should be taught to every man and woman. God desires ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the TRUTH. But that doesn't mean we need to deny EVERYTHING that people believe of different religions. Paul recognized that even the Gentiles have a Law written in their hearts, placed their by the Spirit. We believe that the Spirit works where He will, even if it means outside of our visible community. This does not vindicate other religions as equal to Christianity, just a recognition that ALL religions have SOME truth - they strive to union with God. That's a start to begin preaching the Good News to them.

Regards

 

[Tina]

^

Allah has his own unique identity, which is quite different from the God of the Bible. Muslims claim that these differences are the result of "changes" introduced into the Christian Bible after it was written. In this way, they claim to be the authentic representatives of the religion of the Bible. But most Christians believe, on the contrary, that these differences only prove that Christianity and Islam are two very distinct religions.

The unique identity of Allah begins long before the time of Mohammed, in pre-Muslim Arabia. Allah was one of the 360 tribal gods worshipped in the Kaaba (in Mecca, the holiest site in Islam). Allah was regarded as a high god over the other gods. Mohammed's reform removed all the other gods, and retained only Allah (along with many of the rituals still practiced today during the pilgrimage to Mecca; these include the tawaf, in which Muslims walk around the Kaaba seven times).

This in itself is not a problem. The God of the Bible allowed himself to be identified in some ways with the El of the Canaanites. But although Mohammed claimed to be preaching the God of the Bible, he denied central Christian doctrines such as the deity of Jesus Christ and his atoning death, and the Trinity (tri-unity) of God. He also denied Old Testament teachings, such as that Isaac was the son Abraham nearly sacrificed, substituting in his place Ishmael.

Muslims call Allah a god of mercy, yet he often appears harsh and cruel compared to the God of the Bible. This appears in the removal of body parts as punishment under Muslim Sharia law (such as hands for theft) and the fatalistic attitude toward debilitating injury and sickness as the will of Allah. Generally accepted Muslim attitudes toward leadership, inevitably modeled on the character of Allah, have historically produced many tyrants and dictators, as can be seen today in the Muslim world. This is not to mention the whole theology of jihad (holy war) that leads Muslims to attack Christians (as is happening right now in Nigeria, Sudan, Indonesia, and the southern Philippines), nor Muslim moral doctrines, such as the permission of "temporary" wives (legalized fornication) and permission to beat disobedient wives.

-