Understanding Christianity and Islam

[Tina]

So in many places today where war has killed many men and left many women without any protector or provider you don't think these women have a right to marry a man who has another wife?

A Christian woman marrying a married man would cause the married man to commit adultery , which of course is disallowed in the Bible. A Christian married man is not allowed to take another wife as that would be blatant polygamy !

Also, you said that a person cannot be one flesh with more than one person, then how is it we all can be one with God.

"One flesh" is referring to consummation by sex.

I think you think polyfamy is a sexual issue instead of a social issue.

Whether it is a sexual or social issue does not matter. Polygamy is polygamy !

-

 

[Tina]

^
Bodhi ,

As a Muslim, are you fasting this month of Ramadan? Do you go to Mosque? Do you go to Church? Or do you go to both Mosque and Church, or neither ?? Do you follow the five pillars of Islam? If you claim to be a "Christian" , are you baptized? If not, on what basis do you claim to be a "Christian" ? ?

-

 

[bodhitharta]

So in many places today where war has killed many men and left many women without any protector or provider you don't think these women have a right to marry a man who has another wife?

A Christian woman marrying a married man would cause the married man to commit adultery , which of course is disallowed in the Bible. A Christian married man is not allowed to take another wife as that would be blatant polygamy !

Also, you said that a person cannot be one flesh with more than one person, then how is it we all can be one with God.

"One flesh" is referring to consummation by sex.

I think you think polyfamy is a sexual issue instead of a social issue.

Whether it is a sexual or social issue does not matter. Polygamy is polygamy !

-

Tina,

Show me ONE single verse that says God forbids polygamy. Jesus said if you divorce your wife and she marries someone else you are making adultery happen so you should not divorce your wife or wives no matter how many you have. Adultery is the act of sleeping with someone elses wife it has nothing to do with polygamy. There wuld be no twelve tribes of Israel without Polygamy. There would not even be a Jesus without Polygamy for the tribe of Judah came out of Leah and not Rachel

Genesis 29

35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the LORD: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.

If Jacob could have married only one woman he would have not been with Leah at all for he had been deceived. So Jesus just like Ishmael came from the wife that was disliked.

 

[bodhitharta]

^
Bodhi ,

As a Muslim, are you fasting this month of Ramadan? Do you go to Mosque? Do you go to Church? Or do you go to both Mosque and Church, or neither ?? Do you follow the five pillars of Islam? If you claim to be a "Christian" , are you baptized? If not, on what basis do you claim to be a "Christian" ? ?

-

No, why would I be fasting or going to a Moque or going to a Church? Are you baptized? I have been baptized and anointed with the water from the river Jordan and everywhere I go is a Church, Mosque, Synogogue and Temple for the grace of God go I. But what sin should I be fasting for?

 

[Tina]

No, why would I be fasting or going to a Moque or going to a Church? Are you baptized? I have been baptized and anointed with the water from the river Jordan and everywhere I go is a Church, Mosque, Synogogue and Temple for the grace of God go I.

Are you not a Christian Muslim ? ... Or at least that's what you claim to be !
But if you don't go to Church, how on earth did you get baptized ? ... By whom ? ? ....

But what sin should I be fasting for?

So you think you are sinless ? ......

-

 

[Tina]

Show me ONE single verse that says God forbids polygamy. Jesus said if you divorce your wife and she marries someone else you are making adultery happen so you should not divorce your wife or wives no matter how many you have. Adultery is the act of sleeping with someone elses wife it has nothing to do with polygamy. There wuld be no twelve tribes of Israel without Polygamy. There would not even be a Jesus without Polygamy for the tribe of Judah came out of Leah and not Rachel .

Deuteronomy 17:17
Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

This scripture is God's warning against the polygamist practices of Solomon. After stating that the king (Solomon) is not to get riches from Egypt, nor to amass silver or gold, Moses says, "He must not take many wives" .


Polygamy is permanent adultery. Polygamy is always adultery, but adultery is not always polygamy.
Adultery and fornication are essentially the same sin according to the Bible meaning.

Revelation 2:22
Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.


The New Testament says that marriage to another partner while the first partner is still living is adultery. No fornicator or adulterer shall inherit the kingdom of God. Since a polygamist is an adulterer, he cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 7:1-3
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Polygamy is sinful for male or female. Women married to the same husband do not each have their own husbands.

1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.


God gives us only two other circumstances where a man can marry another woman:
1) If his wife dies .... (see Romans 7:2-3 above)
2) If his wife commits adultery .... (see Matthew 19:8-9)

Genesis 29

35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the LORD: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.

If Jacob could have married only one woman he would have not been with Leah at all for he had been deceived. So Jesus just like Ishmael came from the wife that was disliked.

This is irrelevant. Jacob was deceived. As I said earlier, that bigamy was not strictly forbidden in the past does not make it permissable today. The lack of a specific rebuke by God is in no way to be taken as an acceptance or condoning by Him of the behavior.

.

 

[bodhitharta]

No, why would I be fasting or going to a Moque or going to a Church? Are you baptized? I have been baptized and anointed with the water from the river Jordan and everywhere I go is a Church, Mosque, Synogogue and Temple for the grace of God go I.

Are you not a Christian Muslim ? ... Or at least that's what you claim to be !
But if you don't go to Church, how on earth did you get baptized ? ... By whom ? ? ....

But what sin should I be fasting for?

So you think you are sinless ? ......

-

My Mother is a pastor and she baptized me but actually I have been baptized many times but the Baptism of Allah is best if you understand what I mean?

 

[bodhitharta]

Show me ONE single verse that says God forbids polygamy. Jesus said if you divorce your wife and she marries someone else you are making adultery happen so you should not divorce your wife or wives no matter how many you have. Adultery is the act of sleeping with someone elses wife it has nothing to do with polygamy. There wuld be no twelve tribes of Israel without Polygamy. There would not even be a Jesus without Polygamy for the tribe of Judah came out of Leah and not Rachel .

Deuteronomy 17:17
Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

This scripture is God's warning against the polygamist practices of Solomon. After stating that the king (Solomon) is not to get riches from Egypt, nor to amass silver or gold, Moses says, "He must not take many wives" .


Polygamy is permanent adultery. Polygamy is always adultery, but adultery is not always polygamy.
Adultery and fornication are essentially the same sin according to the Bible meaning.

Revelation 2:22
Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.


The New Testament says that marriage to another partner while the first partner is still living is adultery. No fornicator or adulterer shall inherit the kingdom of God. Since a polygamist is an adulterer, he cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 7:1-3
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Polygamy is sinful for male or female. Women married to the same husband do not each have their own husbands.

1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.


God gives us only two other circumstances where a man can marry another woman:
1) If his wife dies .... (see Romans 7:2-3 above)
2) If his wife commits adultery .... (see Matthew 19:8-9)

Genesis 29

35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the LORD: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.

If Jacob could have married only one woman he would have not been with Leah at all for he had been deceived. So Jesus just like Ishmael came from the wife that was disliked.

This is irrelevant. Jacob was deceived. As I said earlier, that bigamy was not strictly forbidden in the past does not make it permissable today. The lack of a specific rebuke by God is in no way to be taken as an acceptance or condoning by Him of the behavior.

.

Deuteronomy 17

16But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.

17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

So are you saying that a King should have One horse only or just not too many?

Adultery can only be commited when taking someone elses wife you cannot commit adultery in polygamy , you can only commit adultery as David did by having intercourse with someone elses wife.

 

[Free]

Is all of this relevant to the topic?

 

[Tina]

Is all of this relevant to the topic?

Bodhi was trying to prove that polygamy as permitted by Islam is no different from Christianity, which of course is a false assumption based on his limited understanding of the Bible.


:naughty :naughty :naughty :naughty :naughty :naughty :naughty

 

[Tina]

My Mother is a pastor and she baptized me but actually I have been baptized many times but the Baptism of Allah is best if you understand what I mean?

Baptism of Allah ? .... what's that ? .......

.

 

[Tina]

Deuteronomy 17

16But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.

17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

So are you saying that a King should have One horse only or just not too many?

He must not build up a strong military machine by multiplying horses, as this would lead to a false sense of security and power.

Adultery can only be commited when taking someone elses wife you cannot commit adultery in polygamy , you can only commit adultery as David did by having intercourse with someone elses wife.

If polygamy is against the law of God of the Bible and against the law of a country, it naturally follows that intercourse that follows from the polygamy tantamounts to adultery.

Two wrongs does not make a right ! ....... :naughty

-

 

[francisdesales]

francisdesales

First of all Jewish Polygamy continued to the 11th century and you forget that Jesus understood that Married men additionally married the wives of their brothers if they died having no children. These were additional wives.

Please give me some historical citations that this was COMMON among Jewish men, please. Furthermore, since I "ignore the Bible", perhaps you might show me Scriptures verses from the New Testament that even implies that Jewish men had several wives simultaneously.

If a wife dies and a man marries another, that is not an additional wife, the bond is severed between them. Not sure where you get that idea that a man and woman remain married when one dies...

Your quote about having One wife referred to bishops. The Quran does not alter the bible's position on Polygamy in any way.

I was not refering to bishops, but thanks for trying to read my mind. I refers to Jesus' words to the Pharisees. Jesus never mentions anything noted in Scriptures about bishops...

The Quran actually says exactly what the bible says about polygamy.

No, it doesn't. Christ never implies that a man should have more than one wife. even divorces are not allowed - giving only one exception. He notes that God ALLOWED it because of the stubborn hearts of men, not because this was God's plan. Jesus presents the original plan of God.

But the Koran would have us believe that opposite, that it's better for men to have many wives and many simultaneous sexual partners - while the Bible states otherwise. It mentions one flesh, it mentions that a man and woman are to cleave to each other and that they don't share each other - they belong only to each other. The New Testament notes that a man is to give himself to his wife as Christ gave Himself to the Church (community). You can't do that with many wives...

Polygamy is a pagan reversion, not the plan of God for mankind. This reversion makes the Koran false and why I can never see it as the Word of God. It is the word of mankind pretending to be God's Word so that it can advance the political agenda of particular men who want to maintain control over people.

Why is it you keep thinking God "evolves" like some animal? God commanded and assisted in the violence upon enemies.

That is the Jewish interpretation at the time to justify their take over of what is now Palestine. Christians don't buy into the idea that God commands and assists in the violence upon enemies, as if God puts aside His own commandments (like murdering). Does the Bible say "thou shall not murder", but now, God puts that aside so God can have one people wipe out another? For what purpose does God need to take over land or wipe out one race in favor of another? Are you telling me that God needs the Jews to eliminate the Ammorites et al in Palestine??? Baloney. God can easily cause a drought and these people would die off and then the Jews could move in without the necessity of mass murder and killing. This explanation is just a justification for those who have political machinations upon land.

This is not in keeping with a transcendant God who consistently has called to men to turn to Him. Using God as an excuse to politically and militarily expand is the root of many problems in history. And quite simply, it is not in keeping with a God who commands men to love others...

Your whole belief in Salvation through Jesus relies on the violence of men, you would have to love those who you believe killed Jesus for if they had "turned the other cheek or tolerated Jesus" according to what you believe you would be condemned to hell, right?

So your whole belief is dependent on salvation through violence.

My belief in salvation through Jesus doesn't "rely on violence" at all. God can quite easily save us in any way He chooses. As it turns out, God foresaw that men would indeed kill the Christ, advancing their own political agendas for the sake of "god". Please. Too many political and religious leaders disguise their own agendas in the name of "god", and it is an injustice to the idea of a transcendant and loving God who created us in His image.

I fail to see this how this attempt to connect violence to the death of Christ makes violence some sort of "necessity". What a ridiculous twist of logic... Christ gave Himself up for our sake - but it certainly was not "necessary" for Him to die to show us how much God loves us.

Regards

 

[bodhitharta]

Deuteronomy 17

16But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.

17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

So are you saying that a King should have One horse only or just not too many?

He must not build up a strong military machine by multiplying horses, as this would lead to a false sense of security and power.

Adultery can only be commited when taking someone elses wife you cannot commit adultery in polygamy , you can only commit adultery as David did by having intercourse with someone elses wife.

If polygamy is against the law of God of the Bible and against the law of a country, it naturally follows that intercourse that follows from the polygamy tantamounts to adultery.

Two wrongs does not make a right ! ....... :naughty

-

Yes, but Polygamy is NOT against the Law of God and not against the laws of many countries so your view is not correct. I personally do not wish to be polygamous but that is the way I think naturally.


We know for a fact that David had about 6 wives but God did not get upset with Davud for any of those wives He only became upset with David when he chose someone elses wife.

 

[Tina]

Yes, but Polygamy is NOT against the Law of God and not against the laws of many countries so your view is not correct. I personally do not wish to be polygamous but that is the way I think naturally.

Obviously you are referring to MUSLIM countries ... and I have nothing to say on that.
I am only talking about Christians and countries where polygamy is against the law !

We know for a fact that David had about 6 wives but God did not get upset with Davud for any of those wives He only became upset with David when he chose someone elses wife.

If a Christian man, or even a Non-Christian man today living in a Non-polygamous society takes 6 wives or another man's wife, do you think he will get away with it scot-free ?

 

[bodhitharta]

Yes, but Polygamy is NOT against the Law of God and not against the laws of many countries so your view is not correct. I personally do not wish to be polygamous but that is the way I think naturally.

Obviously you are referring to MUSLIM countries ... and I have nothing to say on that.
I am only talking about Christians and countries where polygamy is against the law !

We know for a fact that David had about 6 wives but God did not get upset with Davud for any of those wives He only became upset with David when he chose someone elses wife.

If a Christian man, or even a Non-Christian man today living in a Non-polygamous society takes 6 wives or another man's wife, do you think he will get away with it scot-free ?

No, but in a Polygamous society he would be perfectly innocent.

 

[Tina]

No, but in a Polygamous society he would be perfectly innocent.

There are many Christians working and living in Muslim (polygamous) societies. Does it mean that they take the libery and take advantage of the absence of law against polygamy and marry more women? Of course not !.. For Christians, the law of God supercedes that of the country. Christians should not think that they can live in secret sins of polygamy and adultery and get away with it. God will not be mocked (Galatians 6:7). He may appear perfectly innocent according to the laws of that country, but not in God's Kingdom.


:naughty :naughty :naughty

 

[bodhitharta]

No, but in a Polygamous society he would be perfectly innocent.

There are many Christians working and living in Muslim (polygamous) societies. Does it mean that they take the libery and take advantage of the absence of law against polygamy and marry more women? Of course not !.. For Christians, the law of God supercedes that of the country. Christians should not think that they can live in secret sins of polygamy and adultery and get away with it. God will not be mocked (Galatians 6:7). He may appear perfectly innocent according to the laws of that country, but not in God's Kingdom.


:naughty :naughty :naughty

There is no "God's law against Polygamy and when Jesus said that no one should divorce their wife wouldn't that mean that anyone there listening to him with multiple wives should not divorce any of them?

 

[Tina]

There is no "God's law against Polygamy ....

Of course there's God's law against polygamy. How many times have I supported this stand with scriptures? Everything written in the Bible is called "Word of God". Something that is prohibited in the Bible is called "God's law".

and when Jesus said that no one should divorce their wife wouldn't that mean that anyone there listening to him with multiple wives should not divorce any of them?

What has divorce got to do with polygamy ? ........
How do you know for sure that there were polygamous people listening to him ?


.

 

[bodhitharta]

There is no "God's law against Polygamy ....

Of course there's God's law against polygamy. How many times have I supported this stand with scriptures? Everything written in the Bible is called "Word of God". Something that is prohibited in the Bible is called "God's law".

and when Jesus said that no one should divorce their wife wouldn't that mean that anyone there listening to him with multiple wives should not divorce any of them?

What has divorce got to do with polygamy ? ........
How do you know for sure that there were polygamous people listening to him ?


.

Are you saying there were no polygamous men in Jesus's day? Why didn't Jesus say that having many wives is wrong, why didn't he condemn Abraham, david, Solomon, Jacob or any other for practicing polygamy and if you consider polygamy wrong then you have to feel that there is no real 12 tribes of Israel as they didn't all come through the ORIGINAL wife.

Study