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Understanding Mary - Ever Virgin

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Mungo

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Understanding Mary - Ever Virgin

Although the Perpetual Virginity of Mary has never been formally proclaimed as a Marian Dogma of the Catholic Church, because of its universal acceptance and continued reference to it in Papal documents throughout the history of the Catholic Church (and at the 5th Ecumenical council), it has come to be accepted as a Marian Dogma. Consequently, it can be said that the perpetual virginity of Mary is a Catholic Dogma by virtue of the ordinary and universal Magisterium.

It was also accepted by the Orthodox and by the early "reformers".

Martin Luther:
"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin....Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact." (Weimer, The Works of Luther, English Transl. by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v.11,pp. 319-320; v. 6 p. 510.)

"Christ...was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him..."brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4, 1537-39.)

"He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb...This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that." (Ibid.)


John Calvin:
"There have been certain folk who have wished to suggest that from this passage (Matt 1:25) that the Virgin Mary had other children than the Son of God, and that Joseph then dwelt with her later; but what folly this is! For the gospel writer did not wish to record what happened afterwards; he simply wished to make clear Joseph's obedience and to show also that Joseph had been well and truly assured that it was God who had sent His angel to Mary. He had therefore never dwelt with her nor had he shared her company....And besides this Our Lord Jesus Christ is called the first-born. This is not because there was a second or a third, but because the gospel writer is paying regard to the precedence. Scripture speaks thus of naming the first-born whether or not there was any question of the second." (Sermon on Matthew 1:22-25, published 1562.)

Ulrich Zwingli:
"I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary....Christ...was born of a most undefiled Virgin." (Stakemeier, E. in De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, Balic, K., ed., Rome, 1962, p. 456.)

"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin." (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, in Evang. Luc., v. 1, p. 424.)


The next post will start the arguments for Mary's perpetual virginity. There are 6 of them.
 
I don't obsess about Mary. In fact, I don't think about her very much at all. What concerns me more is how much emphasis Catholics have with regard to Mary. As I've said before, there are often times when it seems Catholics revere Mary as much as if not more than Jesus Himself and for this reason I am very concerned for my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.

I was just about to write about this same subject. I cannot understand the Catholic obsession with Mary and her virginity. Rather than accepting what the Bible clearly says about her and her offspring (including Jesus' siblings) they s-t-r-e-t-c-h Scripture to claim a) she was a perpetual virgin, b) that Jesus' siblings were not actually His siblings, c) that she is the woman in Genesis 3, d) that she is the queen of heaven in Revelation12, etc.

a) Why is there the obsession to believe her perpetual virginity? Is there something wrong with she and Joseph having intercourse and having other children? Is intercourse "dirty"? Is a virgin akin to a "pure" woman?
b) Since the Bible clearly states that Jesus had siblings, why the twisting of the words to claim that the words mean something different and/or they are offspring from another marriage of Joseph's?
c) If Eve is the woman in Genesis 3, then it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent into eating the forbidden fruit. They can't have it both ways!
d) If she is the queen of heaven, then a) she was clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars (yet that isn't mentioned anywhere else in Scripture and would make Mary some sort of cosmic being), b) the dragon’s tail swept away a third of the stars in heaven and hurled them to the earth (which would have ended all life!), and c) she couldn't have fled into the wilderness where a place had been prepared for her by God, so she could be taken care of for 1,260 days (which is contrary to what Scripture says about she, Joseph, and Jesus fleeing to Egypt).

What compels Catholics to believe these myths??? Is being a non-virgin a source of shame for a woman? Is it a stain on Jesus to be the oldest sibling? Is Mary the source of sin entering the world? Is it necessary to twist John's vision to mean something other than what it clearly says?

In summary, why do Catholics have to twist Scripture to conform to clearly held myths, coming up with every excuse and rationale to create a false reality?

=> Catholics need not respond! <=
 
Don't be concerned for Catholics, be cocerned with your own salvation. When they come out of the tomb they will have been made anew! Leaving behind the garment marked and splattered with the sins of the world embraced by the denomination they identify with. The 3 Days of Darkness - six seal, will make sure of that. From out of her and some out of Orthodoxy will arise the Elect Kuria.
I don't think my lack of reverence for Mary has any bearing on my salvation. Unless....can you show me where Scripture tells us otherwise?
 
I don't think my lack of reverence for Mary has any bearing on my salvation. Unless....can you show me where Scripture tells us otherwise?
You do you. I'm just dropping some beats you don't have to like them or hear them or agree with them. I'm sure of them because I proved them with the Word as to where they come from. I'm content to simply sing the new song before God's throne day and nightat His footstool, everywhere I go. I know it will leave no man in ear shot of it ( or computer screen) any excuse of not knowing. Now you know.
 
I was just about to write about this same subject. I cannot understand the Catholic obsession with Mary and her virginity. Rather than accepting what the Bible clearly says about her and her offspring (including Jesus' siblings) they s-t-r-e-t-c-h Scripture to claim a) she was a perpetual virgin, b) that Jesus' siblings were not actually His siblings, c) that she is the woman in Genesis 3, d) that she is the queen of heaven in Revelation12, etc.

a) Why is there the obsession to believe her perpetual virginity? Is there something wrong with she and Joseph having intercourse and having other children? Is intercourse "dirty"? Is a virgin akin to a "pure" woman?
b) Since the Bible clearly states that Jesus had siblings, why the twisting of the words to claim that the words mean something different and/or they are offspring from another marriage of Joseph's?
c) If Eve is the woman in Genesis 3, then it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent into eating the forbidden fruit. They can't have it both ways!
d) If she is the queen of heaven, then a) she was clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars (yet that isn't mentioned anywhere else in Scripture and would make Mary some sort of cosmic being), b) the dragon’s tail swept away a third of the stars in heaven and hurled them to the earth (which would have ended all life!), and c) she couldn't have fled into the wilderness where a place had been prepared for her by God, so she could be taken care of for 1,260 days (which is contrary to what Scripture says about she, Joseph, and Jesus fleeing to Egypt).

What compels Catholics to believe these myths??? Is being a non-virgin a source of shame for a woman? Is it a stain on Jesus to be the oldest sibling? Is Mary the source of sin entering the world? Is it necessary to twist John's vision to mean something other than what it clearly says?

In summary, why do Catholics have to twist Scripture to conform to clearly held myths, coming up with every excuse and rationale to create a false reality?

=> Catholics need not respond! <=
😅😂🤣 You're one to talk. Your doctrine is worse than the Catholics. For example: You have a teacher who tells you 💯 is the number we have to get to and 💯 is good. He shows different ways mathematically how to get to that conclusion- sum. You don't get the mechanics of it but you trust the teacher's lesson is correct. You're just a bit slow but know 💯 is good and is the answer. See, good Christians of the Catholic Church at least have that up on you. They know it is good to SINCERELY honor Mary because the teacher said it is 💯. They have enough commonsense to trust the teacher and his credentials even if they don't quite get the mechanics. But now if any actual Christan of the Catholic Church be here reading, they may now get the math as to what 💯 really means. Point is at least they believed the teacher when He said : " man behold your mother, WOMAN behold your son, because they took her into their home just as John did. That is more than what can be said of you. You can't have Christ and not think much of His mother. Prophecy says-"all generations shall call me blessed" not, all generations won't think much of me.
HATERS NEED NOT ANSWER!
 
Class is in session again students.

Mary Ever Virgin:

If you have been attending class and paying attention this one is very easy.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 English Standard Version (ESV) 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

Since I have shown with scripture weaving, making an orchestra with the scriptures, you should know then, that when the Ark of Christ's strength ( Mary) was taken up with him through abiding, that mortal put on immortality and was changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. She did not fall asleep to the earth. The Dormition of Mary was instant and then she put on her immortality at her Assumption which happened at Christ's Ascension.
1 Corinthians 15
53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

You might say that is only at the last trumpet. Yes, for the rest of us here who will see the return of Christ upon the clouds of heaven. For those who rose at the crucifixion and the ark who clearly was taken up according to the Psalms, they are the NT example of what the End Time Beloved out of Gentile nations will experience. Has to be true because there is a group who is snatched up at the last trumpet.

Matthew 22:29-30
…29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.

Why? 1 Corinthians 15 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Hence, Perpetual Virginity. But first you must be born-again
Jesus and Nicodemus
…6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. John 3:7 Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

Once born of the imperishable seed-
1 Peter 1:
The Word of the Lord Stands
22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Mary being born of the imperishable seed- her soul magnifies the Lord and her spirit rejoices in God her Saviour. For He who is mighty has done great things for her because Holy is His name. She, born of the imperishable, stayed perfect through abiding.
1John3:
Children of God
…8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. ( This happened at her Yes) 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.…

She born of God and the enmity- The Holy Spirit was placed between her and her seed and the serpent and his seed-knowledge. She refused to practice sin because God's seed abides in her and she in Him. At her yes, she abides and is a Perpetual Virgin spiritually for satan is not able to enter the door. "Sin crouches at the door, its desire is for you, but you must master it" and she did from the moment of her YES.

That mortal had a brief Dormition which was in an instant and was changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye- she put on immortality. Henceforth forever she is Mary Ever Virgin.

Those of the sect that go by "Born Again", believe they will be snatched up and receive imperishable bodies, yet have gripes about Mary Ever Virgin? Strange thing isn't it? They love praising one another, asking each other to pray for one another, giving each other Amens! and Hallelujahs and God bless you brother, sister and praise their pastors, yet spurn Mary Ever Virgin?
Revelation 11:
19Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.
 
Last edited:
😅😂🤣 You're one to talk. Your doctrine is worse than the Catholics. For example: You have a teacher who tells you 💯 is the number we have to get to and 💯 is good. He shows different ways mathematically how to get to that conclusion- sum. You don't get the mechanics of it but you trust the teacher's lesson is correct. You're just a bit slow but know 💯 is good and is the answer. See, good Christians of the Catholic Church at least have that up on you. They know it is good to SINCERELY honor Mary because the teacher said it is 💯. They have enough commonsense to trust the teacher and his credentials even if they don't quite get the mechanics. But now if any actual Christan of the Catholic Church be here reading, they may now get the math as to what 💯 really means. Point is at least they believed the teacher when He said : " man behold your mother, WOMAN behold your son, because they took her into their home just as John did. That is more than what can be said of you. You can't have Christ and not think much of His mother. Prophecy says-"all generations shall call me blessed" not, all generations won't think much of me.
HATERS NEED NOT ANSWER!
Try again when you're sober!
 
Class is in session again students.

Mary Ever Virgin:

If you have been attending class and paying attention this one is very easy.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 English Standard Version (ESV) 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

Since I have shown with scripture weaving, making an orchestra with the scriptures, you should know then, that when the Ark of Christ's strength ( Mary) was taken up with him through abiding, that mortal put on immortality and was changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. She did not fall asleep to the earth. The Dormition of Mary was instant and then she put on her immortality at her Assumption which happened at Christ's Ascension.
1 Corinthians 15
53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

You might say that is only at the last trumpet. Yes, for the rest of us here who will see the return of Christ upon the clouds of heaven. For those who rose at the crucifixion and the ark who clearly was taken up according to the Psalms, they are the NT example of what the End Time Beloved out of Gentile nations will experience. Has to be true because there is a group who is snatched up at the last trumpet.

Matthew 22:29-30
…29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.

Why? 1 Corinthians 15 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Hence, Perpetual Virginity. But first you must be born-again
Jesus and Nicodemus
…6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. John 3:7 Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

Once born of the imperishable seed-
1 Peter 1:
The Word of the Lord Stands
22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Mary being born of the imperishable seed- her soul magnifies the Lord and her spirit rejoices in God her Saviour. For He who is mighty has done great things for her because Holy is His name. She, born of the imperishable, stayed perfect through abiding.
1John3:
Children of God
…8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. ( This happened at her Yes) 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.…

She born of God and the enmity- The Holy Spirit was placed between her and her seed and the serpent and his seed-knowledge. She refused to practice sin because God's seed abides in her and she in Him. At her yes, she abides and is a Perpetual Virgin spiritually for satan is not able to enter the door. "Sin crouches at the door, its desire is for you, but you must master it" and she did from the moment of her YES.

That mortal had a brief Dormition which was in an instant and was changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye- she put on immortality. Henceforth forever she is Mary Ever Virgin.

Those of the sect that go by "Born Again", believe they will be snatched up and receive imperishable bodies, yet have gripes about Mary Ever Virgin? Strange thing isn't it? They love praising one another, asking each other to pray for one another, giving each other Amens! and Hallelujahs and God bless you brother, sister and praise their pastors, yet spurn Mary Ever Virgin?
Revelation 11:
19Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.
Blah, blah, blah!

Why is virginity so important? Is intercourse evil?
 
Blah, blah, blah!

Why is virginity so important? Is intercourse evil?
No! God made it. Marriage is used as an example of Christ and His Church. The Song of Songs is supercharged with a lot of romantic attraction. Clearly Mekeda- The Queen of Sheba, blew Solomons mind. But if a person wants to take a vow of celibacy, if a virgin wants to remain a virgin that's a great thing. St. Paul even suggest it. Not as a command but as a suggestion. There can be strife when it comes to marriage and kids and considering the times, I'd say no marriage, no children -no heart ache. What's going down in the world concerning the White Horse and its rider with his crown is bad. A lot of people are going to die. Parents will be burying their children and have been. Households will be at odds, one against another. The Red Horse is riding too. Soon to gain momentum. The people in charge are the worst kind of people imaginable. The kind you say to, my wife is my sister and better yet hide her if she's beautiful like Sara. Hide your daughters as well, withhold your sons from being forced to fight in a devil's war. Perilous times, if awake you see that. As the children die from the jabs, it will be like Rachel weeping for her children. " The night of screams" is coming. Bad times.🙏🏼
 
I don't obsess about Mary. In fact, I don't think about her very much at all. What concerns me more is how much emphasis Catholics have with regard to Mary. As I've said before, there are often times when it seems Catholics revere Mary as much as if not more than Jesus Himself and for this reason I am very concerned for my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.

That may be your opinion but do you have any hard evidence to support that?
Also can we distinguish what the Catholic Church teaches and does and what some Catholics do. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. How representative are the ones you know of that 1.2 billion? That is why I prefer to stick to discussing official Catholic teaching and practice rather than anecdotal evidence based on a few experiences.
 
No! God made it. Marriage is used as an example of Christ and His Church. The Song of Songs is supercharged with a lot of romantic attraction. Clearly Mekeda- The Queen of Sheba, blew Solomons mind. But if a person wants to take a vow of celibacy, if a virgin wants to remain a virgin that's a great thing. St. Paul even suggest it. Not as a command but as a suggestion. There can be strife when it comes to marriage and kids and considering the times, I'd say no marriage, no children -no heart ache. What's going down in the world concerning the White Horse and its rider with his crown is bad. A lot of people are going to die. Parents will be burying their children and have been. Households will be at odds, one against another. The Red Horse is riding too. Soon to gain momentum. The people in charge are the worst kind of people imaginable. The kind you say to, my wife is my sister and better yet hide her if she's beautiful like Sara. Hide your daughters as well, withhold your sons from being forced to fight in a devil's war. Perilous times, if awake you see that. As the children die from the jabs, it will be like Rachel weeping for her children. " The night of screams" is coming. Bad times.🙏🏼
Are you okay??? This seems to be "over the top".
 
Class is in session again students.

Mary Ever Virgin:

If you have been attending class and paying attention this one is very easy.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 English Standard Version (ESV) 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

Since I have shown with scripture weaving, making an orchestra with the scriptures, you should know then, that when the Ark of Christ's strength ( Mary) was taken up with him through abiding, that mortal put on immortality and was changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. She did not fall asleep to the earth. The Dormition of Mary was instant and then she put on her immortality at her Assumption which happened at Christ's Ascension.
1 Corinthians 15
53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

You might say that is only at the last trumpet. Yes, for the rest of us here who will see the return of Christ upon the clouds of heaven. For those who rose at the crucifixion and the ark who clearly was taken up according to the Psalms, they are the NT example of what the End Time Beloved out of Gentile nations will experience. Has to be true because there is a group who is snatched up at the last trumpet.

Matthew 22:29-30
…29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.

Why? 1 Corinthians 15 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Hence, Perpetual Virginity. But first you must be born-again
Jesus and Nicodemus
…6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. John 3:7 Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

Once born of the imperishable seed-
1 Peter 1:
The Word of the Lord Stands
22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Mary being born of the imperishable seed- her soul magnifies the Lord and her spirit rejoices in God her Saviour. For He who is mighty has done great things for her because Holy is His name. She, born of the imperishable, stayed perfect through abiding.
1John3:
Children of God
…8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. ( This happened at her Yes) 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.…

She born of God and the enmity- The Holy Spirit was placed between her and her seed and the serpent and his seed-knowledge. She refused to practice sin because God's seed abides in her and she in Him. At her yes, she abides and is a Perpetual Virgin spiritually for satan is not able to enter the door. "Sin crouches at the door, its desire is for you, but you must master it" and she did from the moment of her YES.

That mortal had a brief Dormition which was in an instant and was changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye- she put on immortality. Henceforth forever she is Mary Ever Virgin.

Those of the sect that go by "Born Again", believe they will be snatched up and receive imperishable bodies, yet have gripes about Mary Ever Virgin? Strange thing isn't it? They love praising one another, asking each other to pray for one another, giving each other Amens! and Hallelujahs and God bless you brother, sister and praise their pastors, yet spurn Mary Ever Virgin?
Revelation 11:
19Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

I skimmed through this, as I don't pay much attention to Catholic twisting of Scripture.

Since Jesus had siblings, Mary is not "ever virgin". That's what the Bible clearly says and that's what I believe.
 
I skimmed through this, as I don't pay much attention to Catholic twisting of Scripture.

Since Jesus had siblings, Mary is not "ever virgin". That's what the Bible clearly says and that's what I believe.
That's what happens when you skim, you give half-baked answers. If you want to respond to me directly you should read my stance in whole. Based on your answer you didn't.
 
That may be your opinion but do you have any hard evidence to support that?
Also can we distinguish what the Catholic Church teaches and does and what some Catholics do. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. How representative are the ones you know of that 1.2 billion? That is why I prefer to stick to discussing official Catholic teaching and practice rather than anecdotal evidence based on a few experiences.
About as representative as you are. Where does my opinion come from?
  • My own experience in the Catholic church before I left.
  • I know many Christian brothers and sisters that are members of the Catholic church.
  • My own siblings, cousins, friends, and neighbors.
  • I listen to EWTN and The Catholic Channel on Sirius FM radio and hear what laypeople, priests, Cardinals, Catholic apologists, and others are saying and preaching.
So is it just my opinion? Well, I guess it is, but my opinion comes from some pretty notable sources.
 
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