Understanding the GodHead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

[Grailhunter]

Claiming to be the Son of God isn't blasphemy in Jewish law. No laws about saying such a thing being blasphemy. The Jews themselves also said they are sons of God (John 8:39). That only exposes their hypocrisy and willingness to kill him over false accusations.

Jesus also quoted from Daniel 7:13, where he spoke of the prophecy of the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven. The high priest should have been pretty familiar with this because Daniel 7:13 speaks of an exclusively human Messiah who isn't himself God. i.e., the Son of man and Ancient of Days aren't the same person. If they new their Scripture they would have seen Jesus denied being God. Or perhaps they knew and didn't care?

So Jesus actually claimed to be a man who is the messiah and their main issue was is they misinterpreted this to be equal with God. Had Jesus claimed to be equal with God then yes of course that would have been blasphemy. Jesus avoided saying he is equal to God. He outright denied equality with God in very clear terms. They used the "Son of God" statement to kill him under the false premise it means equality with God.

John 10
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.

John 14
28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Yeshua is a God for sure.
But there is a hierarchy.

It is amazing how someone that does not understand the details can misrepresent so many things in just a couple sentences. Just bulldozer over the details.

And you are wrong about claiming to be the Son of God was not being enough to justify killing Him.

Matthew 26: 62 The high priest stood up and said to Him, “Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64 Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

What Yeshua said here was more than enough for them to kill Him. That is why the High Priest said…

65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy; 66 what do you think?” They answered, “He deserves death!”

This is one of the reasons He was telling people not to tell others of the healings.

The Jews were looking for a human warlord king messiah to free them from their oppressors….not the Son of God. Since the Jews did not believe in Hell or a Devil they were not looking for the Messiah to save them from Hell or get them to Heaven. The Jews still do not believe in Hell or a Devil to this day. Revolt after revolt to the day that the Temple was destroyed. The Jews were looking for a Messiah that would fight and establish an eternal kingdom. Not a peace loving Messiah of love and forgiveness that would die.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ok. Fair enough.

Let's review some scripture.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

Whenever an Old Testament prophet would say, "thus says the LORD", it was the Spirit of Jesus Christ speaking through them.


Example:


The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1

YHWH the LORD God is the One who created the heavens and the earth.

This is exactly what the New Testament teaches us about Jesus Christ.

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10

This passage from Hebrews is a quote from Zechariah.

Back to Zechariah 12 - We can honestly now say, based on 1 Peter 1:10-11 - Words of Christ in red...

Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


There's more but I want you to comment -





JLB

Hey friend
I know the scriptures....
Can I ask what your point is.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am God, and there is no other;

I have quoted this several times and I agree, Yahweh was the only God in the Old Testament.
So what is your point?

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, your beliefs about God flat out contradicts what God himself says and makes him out to be either ignorant or a liar. I prefer to believe what he has made plain.

I have already given you over a hundred scriptures that prove you and the one God formula wrong.
What do you got?

 

[Grailhunter]

Of course. What else would you expect? If Jesus was also truly divine--God in human flesh--just how do you think we should expect him to act or what we should expect him to say?

No anti-Trinitarian has bothered to try and answer that either.

He said what I expected Him to say.

 

[Grailhunter]

Then, please, show how. And, while you're at it, show how God isn't either ignorant or a liar by claiming he is the only God and there never will be another god.

He said that in the Old Testament.....But in the New Testament He had a Son that was a God.

 

[Grailhunter]

You need to be more clear, unless you are purposely trying to mislead people. That applies to the United Pentecostal/"Jesus Only" denomination(s), not Pentecostalism in general. That is Modalism, not Trinitarianism. It seems as though you still haven't studied the doctrine of the Trinity.

Just giving different views of the Trinity.

 

[Grailhunter]

No, there cannot be three Gods; three divine persons, yes, but only one God.

Correct there are 3 Gods.
Count them up.
God the Father Yahweh
God the Son Yeshua
God the Holy Spirt

 

[Grailhunter]

This is a great misrepresentation of the truth. God's name isn't God; anyone who knows the Bible knows it's a title and the name God uses the most is YHWH. God has many names in the OT. Your arguments are not sound and appear to be mere conjecture.

You don't ever say God?

 

[Grailhunter]

Your reasoning is poor here. Can you not even consider that it is precisely because "The exact pronunciation of Yahweh name is debatable," that Kurios was put in? Do you think it better to have an unpronounceable name, especially when it's a different language, than to have a "placeholder" for the name of God that can be pronounced? It has absolutely nothing to do with trying to formulate the doctrine of the Trinity.

I think it is best to not change the scripture just because want to or think you know better.

 

[JLB]

“He” is not in the original. “He” was not speaking through them.

Are you saying the Spirit of the Lord didn’t speak through Zechariah and the prophets?

 

[JLB]

Hey friend
I know the scriptures....
Can I ask what your point is.

My point is Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH the LORD GOD.

I have plainly shown this and will continue to show this.

 

[Grailhunter]

Again, that the word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible is irrelevant as to whether or not the doctrine is true. We use all sorts of words that aren't in the Bible to sum up biblical beliefs.

Of course they didn't; no one does. That is not the doctrine of the Trinity, that's Modalism/Oneness theology, or close to it.

We have went over this before so tell me what you think it is and do not use any theological words that are not in the Bible…..get some beads and rattles to shake as you tell me it will be more fun.

 

[Grailhunter]

My point is Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH the LORD GOD.

I have plainly shown this and will continue to show this.

You mean like this...
solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 20:21

 

[JLB]

You mean like this...
solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 20:21

Does this scripture say Jesus Christ is not God?
Does this scripture say Jesus Christ is not YHWH the LORD God?

Of course God the Father is YHWH, however, so is the SON.

The scriptures I gave plainly testify of Jesus as God; YHWH the LORD God. I AM.


Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5


Jesus clearly is the one returning with the saints on the Day of the LORD, which is the Day of Christ.



JLB

 

[LeviR]

Are you saying the Spirit of the Lord didn’t speak through Zechariah and the prophets?

No, I’m saying Jesus himself did not speak through them. But the same Spirit that was given to Jesus did speak through them.
Prophets spoke as they were moved by the Spirit of the Father. Which is the same spirit given to The son.

 

[LeviR]

Correct there are 3 Gods.
Count them up.
God the Father Yahweh
God the Son Yeshua
God the Holy Spirt

Looks like three Gods to me
One God is called Father, another called Son, and another called Holy Spirit. = three distinct Gods

 

[JLB]

No, I’m saying Jesus himself did not speak through them. But the same Spirit that was given to Jesus did speak through them.
Prophets spoke as they were moved by the Spirit of the Father. Which is the same spirit given to The son.

Sorry bro, but the term Spirit of Christ is what the scriptures use.


But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9


The Spirit of Christ, the same Spirit of Christ that dwells in Christians today, dwelt in the Old Testament prophets, and testified of His sufferings as a Man.


The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of the LORD who spoke through the prophets.



JLB

 

[Grailhunter]

Does this scripture say Jesus Christ is not God?
Does this scripture say Jesus Christ is not YHWH the LORD God?

Of course God the Father is YHWH, however, so is the SON.

The scriptures I gave plainly testify of Jesus as God; YHWH the LORD God. I AM.


Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5


Jesus clearly is the one returning with the saints on the Day of the LORD, which is the Day of Christ.



JLB

No what it means is that the Apoltle knew there was a difference between Yahweh and Yeshua.
And Christ knew knew.
He did not say My Self, He said My Father.
And Yeshua was His Son.
Father and Son
The begotten son of the Father….not Himself.
That the Father said He was pleased with His Son
And Christ said the Father is greater than I.

 

[JLB]

No what it means is that the Apoltle knew there was a difference between Yahweh and Yeshua.

No such name in the Bible as Yahweh.

The Hebrew is YHWH.


Jesus Christ is the LORD; YHWH the LORD GOD.

Yes, as a Man, Jesus prayed to the Father.

As a Son, Jesus will always seek to do the Father’s will.


Who returns with the saints on the Day of the LORD?

The Father or the Son?


Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5

• Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.

YHWH Elohim.



JLB