Understanding the Holy Spirit Baptism

[live2blive]

Amen. That was Peter.

Yes, of cause it was Peter. Sorry for the mistake and thank you for correcting it.

Here is the pattern when Peter was sent to the first Gentile.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48

They had believed and were saved. Vs. 37

Then the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them as it was on the day of Pentecost. They spoke n tongues as the evidence.

Then they were water baptized.

Yes, this is what happened. But do you see the inconsistency with the words of Peter (the Holy Spirit speaking through Peter): "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". (Acts 2:38)?

How did the gentiles receive the gift of the Holy Ghost BEFORE they were baptized?

 

[JLB]

How did the gentiles receive the gift of the Holy Ghost BEFORE they were baptized?

The baptism with the Spirit is separate from being saved as well as water baptism.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The pattern of the scriptures is different. First, Israelites had to repent (admit that they are spiritually dead in sins), than John the Baptist baptised them, and the resurrection (being born again) followed after the Savior's resurrection (Romans 6:4,5).

Similarly, Paul said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". (Acts 2:38).

The pattern shows Death, Burial, Resurrection, with the baptism before being born again, not after.

Where did you get "(admit that they are spiritually dead in sins)," as a definition for "repent" ?
Repent means...turn from, or, change.
Men are commanded to turn from sin/repent of sin.
"And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Cor 12:21)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, of cause it was Peter. Sorry for the mistake and thank you for correcting it.



Yes, this is what happened. But do you see the inconsistency with the words of Peter (the Holy Spirit speaking through Peter): "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". (Acts 2:38)?

How did the gentiles receive the gift of the Holy Ghost BEFORE they were baptized?

The Gentiles, Cornelius' household, were the only ones to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit baptism) before they were water baptized.
The reason for this was to show the Jews that Gentiles were also welcomed to the new church by Christ Jesus.
Their salvation still won't be assured until the day of judgement.

 

[live2blive]

Where did you get "(admit that they are spiritually dead in sins)," as a definition for "repent" ?
Repent means...turn from, or, change.
Men are commanded to turn from sin/repent of sin.
"And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Cor 12:21)

It was not the definition of “repent”, but explanation. To repent, the people had to first admit that they were sinners and then turn away from sin. To sin means to be spiritually dead:

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1).

 

[live2blive]

The Gentiles, Cornelius' household, were the only ones to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit baptism) before they were water baptized.
The reason for this was to show the Jews that Gentiles were also welcomed to the new church by Christ Jesus.
Their salvation still won't be assured until the day of judgement.

Still, there seems to be a contradiction. Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". (Acts 2:38).

The sequence is simple: principle of death (repentance, see the previous message), burial (baptism) and resurrection (receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit). Like in 1 Corinthians 15:3,4, in the pattern of the tabernacle, etc.

Why do you think Cornelius received the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE the water baptism, in contradiction to Acts 2:38?

 

[Dougcho]

Does anyone really understand the baptism of the Spirit?

Interestingly you show this same uncertainty by saying, ' If required ! '
A far better statement than saying that All should show they have the baptism by showing some spiritual gift.

How does someone with the gift of teaching manifest this gift, if not by being a good teacher.
It is the same with the other non spectacular gifts.

Born-again believers are encouraged to seek this baptism of anointing and spiritual power!
If it is required …
I meant ... Do whatever you need to do -- to get it.

 

[Tenchi]

The “born again” experience
is being baptized into Christ’s church by the Holy Spirit …
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
In this experience, the Holy Spirit comes INSIDE the believer …
John 14:16-23, Rom. 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Gal. 4:6, 2 Tim. 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.

We are more than baptized into Christ's Church, we are baptized into him, united with him through the Person of the Holy Spirit who is called the Spirit of Christ in Scripture (Romans 6:1-11; Romans 8:9-16; Philippians 1:19). At the same time, this baptism by the Spirit "clothes" the convert in Christ, by the Spirit, they "put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27; Romans 13:14).

So, we see that the baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs when the Holy Spirit
comes UPON a person.

To "come upon" is to "come into."

”Behold, I send the Promise of My Father UPON you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem
until you are endued with (spiritual) power from on high.” (Luke 24:49)

”… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. But you shall
receive (spiritual) power when the Holy Spirit has come UPON you” (Acts 1:4-8)

And what happened when the Spirit "came upon" the first Christians?

Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit...

That would be filled on the inside. (One can't be filled on the outside, obviously.)

Acts 8:15-17
15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

There is nothing in this account in Acts 8 to indicate that the Spirit did not come upon the Samaritan people as he had in Acts 2. And there is also no indication in the account that their receiving the Holy Spirit was a second such instance, different from being baptized into Christ.

“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell UPON all those who heard
the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came
with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out ON the Gentiles also.
For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.” (Acts 10:44-46)

Acts 10:46-47
46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

In this bit you left out of your quotation from Acts 10, Peter confirmed that those in Caesarea who had received the Spirit did so just as he had (in Acts 2) where he was permanently filled with the Spirit. The Spirit "coming upon" the believing Gentiles in Caesarea, then, entailed him entering them and regenerating them spiritually, making them members of the Body of Christ. There is nothing in this account to suggest that the Caesarean Gentiles had already been baptized into Christ (i.e. saved/born-again/spiritually-regenerated) and were receiving a second impartation of the Holy Spirit.

“And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell UPON them, as upon us at the beginning.
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water,
but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them the same
gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ …” (Acts 11:15-17)

Here, too, the Holy Spirit coming upon Cornelius and his household was a spiritually-regenerating thing, an inward "baptism" of Cornelius et al. into Christ, not a second impartation of the Spirit for some other purpose. Peter confirms this by comparing what had happened to Cornelius and his household to his own Acts 2 experience ("as upon us at the beginning") where he was spiritually-regenerated for the first time, permanently filled with the Holy Spirit and baptized into Jesus Christ.

“And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came UPON them,
and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.” (Acts 19:6)

Acts 19:1-7
1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
7 There were in all about twelve men.

In this account, it seems very plain to me that, when the Spirit came upon the Ephesian believers, he did so in a spiritually-regenerating way, baptizing them all into Christ. What is described here is not a second "baptism" of the Spirit, entirely distinct from the first.

So, we see that the baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs when the Holy Spirit
comes UPON a person. These 7 passages reveal that it is called “the Promise”
of the Father, and “the gift” of the Holy Spirit, and is accompanied by such things as:
spiritual power, laying on of hands, filled with the Holy Spirit, tongues, and prophecy.

So, isn’t it obvious that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different experience
than being born again? It is called “the second blessing”

Born-again believers are encouraged to seek this baptism of anointing and spiritual power!
If it is required …
remember the Persistent Widow of Luke 18:1-5, and the Ask-Seek-Knock of Matthew 7:7-8.

I expect that your idea of two spiritual baptisms by the Holy Spirit arises from the fact that Jesus "breathed" the Spirit upon his disciples in John 20:20-22 and then they were filled with the Spirit in Acts 2.

John 20:20-22
20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples then rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

What isn't present in this account?

- Jesus did NOT say that his disciples should breathe the Spirit upon others.
- Jesus did NOT breathe the Holy Spirit upon any others.
- Jesus did NOT say that there were two Spirit "impartations" that every saved person should expect to have.
- The disciples did NOT go on to teach the Early Church that there were two distinct, separate Spirit "impartations" every believer should expect to have.

Also:

- How is it that the Spirit came upon and filled those in whom he already dwelled?
- Why were the disciples waiting for this baptism of the Spirit when he was already within them? Why weren't they already in the street preaching the Gospel as they did in Acts 2? How is it possible to have the Spirit within and yet not have him within in such a way as to be empowered by him spiritually?

It isn't at all obvious, then, that the baptism of the Spirit is of two kinds. I think it's quite obvious, actually, that you've placed far too much emphasis on the two prepositions "in" and "upon."

 

[MisterE]

Greek scholar AT Robertson says:

My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received. The gift of the Holy Ghost (την δωρεαν του αγιου πνευματος). The gift consists (Ac8:17 ) in the Holy Spirit (genitive of identification).

 

[Hopeful 2]

It was not the definition of “repent”, but explanation. To repent, the people had to first admit that they were sinners and then turn away from sin. To sin means to be spiritually dead:

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1).

People have been born with a conscience that has already made them aware that their wickedness is sinful.
Repentance (from sin) is a gift from God that allows them to quit sinning.
It is written..." For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
If one is really sorry for ones sins, one won't do them again.
That is repentance from sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Still, there seems to be a contradiction. Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". (Acts 2:38).

The sequence is simple: principle of death (repentance, see the previous message), burial (baptism) and resurrection (receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit). Like in 1 Corinthians 15:3,4, in the pattern of the tabernacle, etc.

Why do you think Cornelius received the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE the water baptism, in contradiction to Acts 2:38?

God gave the Gentiles at Cornelius' house the gift of the Holy Ghost before baptism, to show Peter and the Jews that came with him, that in no uncertain terms, He had also accepted Gentiles into His body.
The OT walls of separation had come down ! (Eph 2)

 

[Dougcho]

That the baptism with (or in) the Holy Spirit ...
is a second blessing (quite separate from being born again)
is proven by the accompanying "signs",
which are never present when one is born again:
spiritual power, laying on of hands, filled with the Holy Spirit, tongues, and prophecy.
What could be more obvious?
Most people on Christian forums would rather be burned at the stake ...
than have to give up their cherished doctrines taught to them from the cradle.

 

[live2blive]

God gave the Gentiles at Cornelius' house the gift of the Holy Ghost before baptism, to show Peter and the Jews that came with him, that in no uncertain terms, He had also accepted Gentiles into His body.
The OT walls of separation had come down ! (Eph 2)

Sorry for insisting on this point, but it is important. Why God had to break His pattern (death, burial, resurrection) He gave via Peter in Acts 2:38 and showed throughout the Bible? Why God could not tell Peter to come to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house, ask them to repent, baptized them in water, and after that gave them the Holy Spirit?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sorry for insisting on this point, but it is important. Why God had to break His pattern (death, burial, resurrection) He gave via Peter in Acts 2:38 and showed throughout the Bible? Why God could not tell Peter to come to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house, ask them to repent, baptized them in water, and after that gave them the Holy Spirit?

God was making the point that He had accepted the repentant of every nation...with flair !
Peter wouldn't even have entered Cornelius' house, if Peter had not had the earlier vision from God first.
The Jews couldn't imagine God accepting anyone but Israelites, before Cornelius' event.
A sentiment that seems clear, back at Jerusalem in Acts 11.

 

[Dougcho]

I think it's quite obvious, actually, that you've placed far too much emphasis on the two prepositions "in" and "upon."

Just quoting Scripture! ... Do you have a translation that supports your bias?
I think it's quite obvious, actually, that you have been brainwashed against
the second blessing, which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Millions all over the world have received this anointing (mostly) for ministry.