Understanding the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13)

[atpollard]

I'm just using the language from the scripture.
Lest they believe and are saved.
Would you care to answer of comment on these questions?

No. :wink
... but I'd be happy to discuss the actual scripture:

Luke 8:11-12
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

I offer the following thought:
Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. [NKJV]

I posit in response to Luke 8:11-12 that if the Devil can snatch away the word, then the person will not hear, and since the person did not hear, they will not come to faith (as implied from Romans 10:17). Applying this to Luke 8:11-12, the devil snatches away the word so they will not hear. Since they did not hear, they cannot believe (you cannot believe what you have never heard). Since they do not believe, there is no danger that the seed of the word of the gospel will grow in their life and yield a harvest multiplied many fold (like the last soil which is without question, saved).

It is over reaching the intent of the parable to link believe and be saved as the same thing in verse 12. It is like removing a link to render the chain ineffective.

 

[Jim Parker]

I'm just using the language from the scripture.

Lest they believe and are saved.
Would you care to answer of comment on these questions?
The first question is: Is someone who believes for a while then no longer believes, still a believer,?
The second is like it: Are those who believe for a while, then no longer believe still saved.
Jesus gave us the condition for being saved, in the beginning of this parable.
The condition for being saved is believe.
believe = saved
If that is so, then believe for a while = saved for a while.
How can we expect someone who has returned to unbelieving, to be saved.
JLB

The scripture under consideration is Luke 8:13 (RSV) "And the ones (seeds) on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away."

If we hold that belief results in salvation then we must conclude that those who believed "for a while" were also saved "for a while."

The passage relates 4 outcomes of hearing the word.
(1) The devil prevents the hearer from believing. (Not saved)
(2) The person believes for a while and falls away. (Saved then no longer saved)
(3) The person believes but does not bear fruit. (Lack of fruit is cause for condemnation. Mat 21:18-19)
(4) The person believes and bears much fruit. (Definitely saved)



iakov the fool

 

[chessman]

If we hold that belief results in salvation then we must conclude that those who believed "for a while" were also saved "for a while."

The passage relates 4 outcomes of hearing the word.
(1) The devil prevents the hearer from believing. (Not saved)
(2) The person believes for a while and falls away. (Saved then no longer saved)
(3) The person believes but does not bear fruit. (Lack of fruit is cause for condemnation. Mat 21:18-19)
(4) The person believes and bears much fruit. (Definitely saved)



iakov the fool

If we add a little of Saint Matthew's and Saint John's Holy inspired "understanding" and hold that "understanding" the word is important too, we must conclude that the one who understood what was heard and believed was "saved" and bore the fruit to show it:

Matthew 13:19a (LEB) When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.

John 15:8 (LEB) My Father is glorified by this: that you bear much fruit, and prove to be my disciples.

Holy Inspired Interpretation via Matthew:

[1] Matthew 13:19b-22 This is what was sown on the side of the path.
[2]And what was sown on the rocky ground—this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he does not have a root in himself, but lasts only a little while, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he falls away.
[3]And what was sown into the thorn plants—this is the one who hears the word, and the anxiety of this world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word and it becomes unproductive.
[4] But what was sown on the good soil—this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces, this one a hundred times as much, and this one sixty, and this one thirty.”​

The passage relates 4 outcomes of hearing the word, understanding the word, and believing the word:
(1) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word or believing. (No fruit, Not saved)
(2) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word such that the hearer skips repentance for his sin and immediately receives it with joy instead and thus falls away. (Never repented thus not saved and bore no fruit to show it. No root, no wonder)
(3) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word such that the hearer instead chooses the wealth of this world and thus falls away. (Never accepted the light/Christ, not saved and bore no fruit to show it.)
(4) The person hears the word, understands the word, believes the word, and bears much fruit to prove he is a disciple. (Definitely saved)

​

 

[JLB]

If we add a little of Saint Matthew's and Saint John's Holy inspired "understanding" and hold that "understanding" the word is important too, we must conclude that the one who understood what was heard and believed was "saved" and bore the fruit to show it:

Matthew 13:19a (LEB) When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.

John 15:8 (LEB) My Father is glorified by this: that you bear much fruit, and prove to be my disciples.

Holy Inspired Interpretation via Matthew:

[1] Matthew 13:19b-22 This is what was sown on the side of the path.
[2]And what was sown on the rocky ground—this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he does not have a root in himself, but lasts only a little while, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he falls away.
[3]And what was sown into the thorn plants—this is the one who hears the word, and the anxiety of this world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word and it becomes unproductive.
[4] But what was sown on the good soil—this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces, this one a hundred times as much, and this one sixty, and this one thirty.”​

The passage relates 4 outcomes of hearing the word, understanding the word, and believing the word:
(1) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word or believing. (No fruit, Not saved)
(2) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word such that the hearer skips repentance for his sin and immediately receives it with joy instead and thus falls away. (Never repented thus not saved and bore no fruit to show it. No root, no wonder)
(3) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word such that the hearer instead chooses the wealth of this world and thus falls away. (Never accepted the light/Christ, not saved and bore no fruit to show it.)
(4) The person hears the word, understands the word, believes the word, and bears much fruit to prove he is a disciple. (Definitely saved)

​

What is the condition that is required for a person to be saved, based on Jesus words.

11 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:11-12

 

[JLB]

The scripture under consideration is Luke 8:13 (RSV) "And the ones (seeds) on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away."

If we hold that belief results in salvation then we must conclude that those who believed "for a while" were also saved "for a while."

The passage relates 4 outcomes of hearing the word.
(1) The devil prevents the hearer from believing. (Not saved)
(2) The person believes for a while and falls away. (Saved then no longer saved)
(3) The person believes but does not bear fruit. (Lack of fruit is cause for condemnation. Mat 21:18-19)
(4) The person believes and bears much fruit. (Definitely saved)



iakov the fool

Yes sir.

 

[Jim Parker]

What is the condition that is required for a person to be saved, based on Jesus words.

According to Jesus' words ONLY, there are several conditions:
(1) Believe
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
(2) Obey
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.
(3) Do good
John 5:28-29 (NKJV) … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
(4) Show mercy
Mat 25:34-36 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, "Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me."
Mat 25:41-43 Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me."
Mat 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Hope that answers the question.


iakov the fool

 

[chessman]

What is the condition that is required for a person to be saved, based on Jesus words.

John 12:39-40 (LEB) For this reason they were not able to believe, because again Isaiah said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.” ​

Easy. First, God has to give sight (light), then soften their rocky soul/soil (I mean hearts), then they may understand and turn (repent) then believe. In other words, God has to condition them. Glad you asked.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.”

So the condition is; God has to work on them first. Were you not aware that rock hard hearts cannot even understand the word, much less believe the Word.

 

[JLB]

I posit in response to Luke 8:11-12 that if the Devil can snatch away the word, then the person will not hear, and since the person did not hear, they will not come to faith (as implied from Romans 10:17). Applying this to Luke 8:11-12, the devil snatches away the word so they will not hear. Since they did not hear, they cannot believe (you cannot believe what you have never heard). Since they do not believe, there is no danger that the seed of the word of the gospel will grow in their life and yield a harvest multiplied many fold (like the last soil which is without question, saved).

It is over reaching the intent of the parable to link believe and be saved as the same thing in verse 12. It is like removing a link to render the chain ineffective.

The same thing in verse 12 also exists in verse 13, in which they both heard.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12

Those in the first group and all the groups did in fact hear..


I'm sorry, but the condition for being saved is to believe.

Believe = Saved
Believe for awhile = Saved for a while.


As long as we believe, and continue to believe to the end you will be saved.


JLB

 

[chessman]

I'm sorry, but the condition for being saved is to believe.

Sorry, but Muslims 'believe'.

The Biblical fact one must understand is that whoever "believes in Him" has everlasting life.

John 3:16 (NKJV) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes ______ should not perish but have everlasting life.​

 

[JLB]

John 12:39-40 (LEB) For this reason they were not able to believe, because again Isaiah said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.” ​

Easy. First, God has to give sight (light), then soften their rocky soul/soil (I mean hearts), then they may understand and turn (repent) then believe. In other words, God has to condition them. Glad you asked.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.”

So the condition is; God has to work on them first. Were you not aware that rock hard hearts cannot even understand the word, much less believe the Word.

The condition for being saved is to believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12

...lest they should believe and be saved.


Believe is the work we are required to do, to be saved.


This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.”


JLB

 

[JLB]

Sorry, but Muslims 'believe'.

If a Muslim believes, then he will be saved if he continues to believe to the end and does not turn back, or fall away, because he is persecuted by unbelieving Muslims.


JLB

 

[JLB]

According to Jesus' words ONLY, there are several conditions:
(1) Believe
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
(2) Obey
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.
(3) Do good
John 5:28-29 (NKJV) … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
(4) Show mercy
Mat 25:34-36 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, "Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me."
Mat 25:41-43 Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me."
Mat 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Hope that answers the question.


iakov the fool

Yes.

"Biblical believing" has the idea of obey, trust, commit.

To believe is to obey.

Unbelief is Disobedience.


Is you believe Jesus is your Lord (Master) but do not obey Him, then in reality He is not your Lord (Master), since your master is the one you obey.


Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, but do not do what I say?
Luke 6:46



JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Yes.

"Biblical believing" has the idea of obey, trust, commit.

To believe is to obey.

Unbelief is Disobedience.


Is you believe Jesus is your Lord (Master) but do not obey Him, then in reality He is not your Lord (Master), since your master is the one you obey.


Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, but do not do what I say?
Luke 6:46



JLB

Everything you said it is true. Let me introduce a 3rd condition.

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mat 24:46-51)

We have Saved (ETERNAL LIFE WITH GOD), someone that believes what they say confessing Jesus Lord and lives their life with Him being Lord in mind.
We have those that get dunked in water, claim to be Christians, but Jesus was never Lord. (NO ETERNAL LIFE WITH GOD)

3rd group: Lacking complete finishing their race syndrome.

Jesus claims He is this servants Lord, but this servant decided to do their own thing and even bad things. Their place is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Fear:
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What is Outer Darkness? The servant did not use His one talent because of fear. He was afraid to step out and put on the line the money given to him.

What's it means works burned up and but still saved barely by fire?

What about the millions of believers who allow fear, who plan where they want to work, where they go to school and who they marry without asking God about any of it?

What about those who are sick, God sends people like You and Me, and they want to tell us how it is and about Job's boils, being stupid and ignorant. Walking the plan of God out takes faith to overcome all things. Look at Paul. What if they give up and hold onto doctrines of devils through unbelief?

For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
(1Co 11:30-32)

This judgement seems to lead to death so that a believer will not eventually have to be condemned with the World. No reward, but at least not condemned to Hell.

I believe it's not as cut and dried as some would like it.

Blessings.
Mike.

 

[JLB]

3rd group: Lacking complete finishing their race syndrome

These were His servants. Not unbelievers.

One example depicted a believer who was promoted to ruler over His house, but became disobedient.

The other example depicted a believer who was promoted as well, bury remained obedient to do what his Master gave him to do.

Disobedience is Unbelief.

Same Greek word and is used interchangeably in the Bible.


11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:11-17



JLB

 

[WIP]

According to Jesus' words ONLY, there are several conditions:
(1) Believe
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
(2) Obey
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.
(3) Do good
John 5:28-29 (NKJV) … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
(4) Show mercy
Mat 25:34-36 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, "Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me."
Mat 25:41-43 Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me."
Mat 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Hope that answers the question.


iakov the fool

Similarily I think too often we stop short. We read that to be saved one must believe and we stop there but I have held the opinion that if I truly and unequivocally believe in Jesus as Lord I would without hesitation or doubt follow Him and to truly and completely follow Him would mean that I would obey Him in everything and if I obey Him truly and completely I will do what He says and if I truly and completely do what He says I will follow His commands which are to Love God and Love others and to do that means I will do good and show mercy.

 

[Brother Mike]

These were His servants. Not unbelievers.

One example depicted a believer who was promoted to ruler over His house, but became disobedient.

The other example depicted a believer who was promoted as well, bury remained obedient to do what his Master gave him to do.

Disobedience is Unbelief.

Same Greek word and is used interchangeably in the Bible.


11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:11-17



JLB

Sounds Reasonable.

 

[atpollard]

The scripture under consideration is Luke 8:13 (RSV) "And the ones (seeds) on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away."

If we hold that belief results in salvation then we must conclude that those who believed "for a while" were also saved "for a while."

The passage relates 4 outcomes of hearing the word.
(1) The devil prevents the hearer from believing. (Not saved)
(2) The person believes for a while and falls away. (Saved then no longer saved)
(3) The person believes but does not bear fruit. (Lack of fruit is cause for condemnation. Mat 21:18-19)
(4) The person believes and bears much fruit. (Definitely saved)



iakov the fool

I agree 100%.
... If we hold that belief results in salvation.

And for me, personally, that has ALWAYS been the rub with applying this Parable the way it is so often bantered about.
If we hold that belief is one link in a chain that leads to salvation, then the verse in question says something completely different.

So is it:
A. belief = salvation
B. belief > obedience > do good > show mercy = salvation (where ">" means yields)

For me it is a question too important to rest on any single verse, especially one in a parable.
This distinction works whether one chooses to embrace monergism or synergism. It makes no difference to this argument who is the source of the change, just what is the real definition of "saved". However, that is another discussion for another topic (that I would be happy to participate in). Here I am just attempting to properly understand one simple parable about some seeds and some dirt.

 

[atpollard]

If we add a little of Saint Matthew's and Saint John's Holy inspired "understanding" and hold that "understanding" the word is important too, we must conclude that the one who understood what was heard and believed was "saved" and bore the fruit to show it:

[snip]​

The passage relates 4 outcomes of hearing the word, understanding the word, and believing the word:
(1) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word or believing. (No fruit, Not saved)
(2) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word such that the hearer skips repentance for his sin and immediately receives it with joy instead and thus falls away. (Never repented thus not saved and bore no fruit to show it. No root, no wonder)
(3) The devil prevents the hearer from understanding the word such that the hearer instead chooses the wealth of this world and thus falls away. (Never accepted the light/Christ, not saved and bore no fruit to show it.)
(4) The person hears the word, understands the word, believes the word, and bears much fruit to prove he is a disciple. (Definitely saved)

That is how I instinctively view it on a gut level as well.
Can we talk?
Does Jesus saying they "believed" the word of God make you a little uncomfortable with this position. I like the "hear and not understand" version much better, but I have this stupid problem with needing to accept ALL scripture as God breathed, so the "believed" version needs to be taken into consideration as well.

Sometimes I wonder if we err in applying this to a person's entire life and ultimate destiny. What if Jesus was just talking about the preaching of one sermon? Some will ignore the words, some will get excited, but later wander away, some will follow for a while but eventually taper off, and some will be forever changed by that message. In all of the cases, they may or may not have future opportunities to hear other words from God spoken by other lips and perhaps, the soil of their heart will have been made more ready to receive it. The message is both a warning to the listeners that we have a responsibility to HEAR well, and a lesson to the preachers that Jesus was teaching that making the audience hear is not their job. The sower just scatters the seed EVERYWHERE.

The more I study this parable, the less I am convinced that it is really about salvation. I think it is about how to listen and how to sow the word.

 

[JLB]

just what is the real definition of "saved".

Yes, that would be a good discussion, as well as what the difference is between salvation by faith, and receiving the salvation of your soul in reality. [1 Peter 1:9]

If we have something by faith, then we have the hope of receiving that something, at a future moment in time.

If we have actually received something, then we do not have it by faith, since we are no longer hoping for it, but have actually attained it.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Hebrews 11:13

Abraham died in faith, believing the promise of God, which said:

Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. Genesis 12:1-4

This was God's "charge" to Abraham, that he kept throughout his life, without having actually receiving the promises of:

I will make you a great nation.
In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. [promise of the Messiah]

Abraham would indeed receive this promise but not in his natural lifespan on earth.
Abraham kept the faith while he was living on earth, right up til the moment he died.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


Others who operated by faith, demonstrated this pattern of obedience like Abraham, and were declared righteous because of that obedience.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Whenever we see righteousness according to faith in the scripture, we should know that obedience is involved.

Noah was declared righteous according to faith, because he obeyed God and built the Ark.

Was God involved in the process of building the Ark, to give Him wisdom and strength and grace and even favor with the animals so they would come into it two by two, when the time came: Yes, of course.

Never the less, Noah had to put forth the effort that obedience required, so that God's intent was fulfilled, in which Noah was declared righteous according to faith.

...prepared an ark for the saving of his household,

So here is the question: Who prepared the Ark that saved Noah's household?

The Point: By faith means obedience was involved.

The work was the effort obedience required.

With Abraham it was:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
Genesis 12:1


With Noah it was building the Ark, by faith:

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7



JLB

 

[atpollard]

The condition for being saved is to believe.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12
...lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe is the work we are required to do, to be saved.
This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.”

JLB

Let's talk about this. Not as an adversarial debate, just a friendly "what if", so you can explain how you see it different.

Matthew 13:18-21 [NKJV]
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Mark 4:13-17 [NKJV]
13 And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble.

Luke 8:11-13 [NKJV]
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

In all three Gospel accounts, the first group had the word "taken" or "snatched" and Luke explains "lest they should believe and be saved". The second group heard and received the word with gladness/joy and soon stumble/fall away. So far there is no real dispute on the facts as far as I can tell.

Where it becomes tricky is "... believe and be saved" (Luke 8:12) and "... believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16).

So back to the second group:
Matthew 13:20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
Mark 4:16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Luke 8:13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; ...
... is it possible that they believed and received "the word" (the message they heard), which could certainly lead one to joy and gladness, but that they never believed "in Him" (Jesus). In my Church, they talk about the danger of having a head knowledge but not a heart knowledge of Jesus and lots of people know ABOUT Jesus without ever actually knowing Him personally.

So I can't help but wonder if this might be that sort of a case.