Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Carry_Your_Name]

People were made in the image of God. It doesn't mean what you seem to think it does.

Jesus is like God's face in camera, but of course it's more sophisticated than just an image on the screen - he's God's presence on earth, while God is in heaven. This is explained in 1 Cor. 15:40 - "There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is like God's face in camera, but of course it's more sophisticated than just an image on the screen - he's God's presence on earth, while God is in heaven. This is explained in 1 Cor. 15:40 - "There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

That can't be it or else it follows the entire sinful human race are God's face in a camera according to Genesis 1:27. It refers to the likeness or semblance of someone or something without actually being that person or thing.

Does this sound like God to you? God can be tempted to sin in every way?

Hebrews 4
15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thanks Hopeful.
If you have anything to add - please go ahead.

In the OP's vein...The only begotten Son of God is eager to remit the sins of those who will turn from their sins.
We should be eager to forgive those who have sinned against us too.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That can't be it or else it follows the entire sinful human race are God's face in a camera according to Genesis 1:27. It refers to the likeness or semblance of someone or something without actually being that person or thing.

Does this sound like God to you? God can be tempted to sin in every way?

Hebrews 4
15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.

"Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed." (James 1:13-14)

 

[Runningman]

"Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed." (James 1:13-14)

That’s exactly my point. I have nothing to add to that.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That’s exactly my point. I have nothing to add to that.

I have no idea what your point is and what game you're playing as you insist that the Lamb in Revelation is somebody else instead of Jesus. YHWH is an all consuming fire (Heb. 12:29) with no shape or form, when he appears in the shape and form of a human being, that's none other than Jesus of Nazerath.

 

[Randy]

Titus 2:13

Our great God and Savior is referring to the same Person.

It states that we look forward to His appearing.
No one has ever seen God.
John 1:18

But we have seen the Son,
Our great God and Savior.

Person 1 = Great God
Person 2 = Savior Jesus

When Jesus appears, God brings Jesus. That's two different persons.

1 Thessalonians 4
14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

Don't you think Jesus is "the glory" of the only God our savior the Father?

while we wait for the blessed hope, —the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

Jude 1:24
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen

Paul-Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Runningman]

I have no idea what your point is and what game you're playing as you insist that the Lamb in Revelation is somebody else instead of Jesus. YHWH is an all consuming fire (Heb. 12:29) with no shape or form, when he appears in the shape and form of a human being, that's none other than Jesus of Nazerath.

Hebrews 4:15 says Jesus is tempted in every way as we are. James 1:13-14 says God cannot be tempted. There is nothing to add to that. Do you agree with Scripture on this point?

 

[Runningman]

Don't you think Jesus is "the glory" of the only God our savior the Father?

while we wait for the blessed hope, —the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

Jude 1:24
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen

Paul-Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Indeed, Jesus is the glory of God if by that you mean God reaps the glory, but also God glorified Jesus just as he will glory His own.

Romans 8
28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified

 

[Randy]

Indeed, Jesus is the glory of God if by that you mean God reaps the glory, but also God glorified Jesus just as he will glory His own.

Romans 8
28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word

 

[Runningman]

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word

Yes. The same image Paul preached we should be conformed to. By being in the image of Jesus we do not become God.

Romans 8
29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Hebrews 4:15 says Jesus is tempted in every way as we are. James 1:13-14 says God cannot be tempted. There is nothing to add to that. Do you agree with Scripture on this point?

You read James 1:13-14 wrong. God cannot be tempted means God does not yield to temptation, he is immune to temptation, it doesn’t mean temptation doesn’t exist or nobody can try to tempt God. “You shall not tempt the Lord your God,” Matt. 4:7.

 

[Runningman]

You read James 1:13-14 wrong. God cannot be tempted means God does not yield to temptation, he is immune to temptation, it doesn’t mean temptation doesn’t exist or nobody can try to tempt God. “You shall not tempt the Lord your God,” Matt. 4:7.

I am reading James 1:13-14 perfectly clear. It refers to the temptation to do evil, i.e., sin. Something that God cannot do, but Jesus can. That proves Jesus, in his nature, is not God. Jesus is a regular human being who needed time to learn the difference between good and evil. That isn't God. Jesus is a man, who was obedient, and chose not to sin.

Read about Immanuel. God needs time to know to reject evil and choose good?

Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I am reading James 1:13-14 perfectly clear. It refers to the temptation to do evil, i.e., sin. Something that God cannot do, but Jesus can. That proves Jesus, in his nature, is not God. Jesus is a regular human being who needed time to learn the difference between good and evil. That isn't God. Jesus is a man, who was obedient, and chose not to sin.

Read about Immanuel. God needs time to know to reject evil and choose good?

Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

Sin is not about behavior that you choose to do or not to do, it's in human nature. Pride, envy, gluttony, wrath, lust, sloth and greed are inherent in human nature, this nature automatically takes over your willpower under stressful circumstances. Jesus is sinless and he cannot sin because he was born of the Holy Spirit, even under extremely stressful circumstance, that proves he is not average man, but God. He relied on the power of the Holy Spirit instead of his own willpower. When he was being tempted by Satan, he didn't rant, "f#$k you Satan, get lost," he rebuked Satan with the word of God from Deuteronomy.

 

[Randy]

Yes. The same image Paul preached we should be conformed to. By being in the image of Jesus we do not become God.

Romans 8
29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

No, in us all things are not held together and sustained by our word.

Col 1:19 -all the fullness of Gods Deity was gifted to dwell in the Son. Keyword "IN" that is the Fathers Deity. So the Son is the radiance of God's Glory and the exact representation of Gods very being. The eternal life in Jesus is the Father the only true God. They are one. One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ

Jesus, is God's Firstborn, (His spirit),and has always been the Son. And as stated all the fullness off the Deity was pleased to dwell in Him. He is all that the Father is and in that context He is God. He has always been the Son and in that context He is not God.

There are some here who start thread after thread trying to show what can't be true. For Jesus calls the Father His God and that states from Him the Father is greater and His God.

That eternal life or nature found in the Logos is the Fathers Deity without limit, (fullness)
In the beginning was the Logos and the nature of the Logos was God and the Logos was with His God and Father.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete

 

[Runningman]

Sin is not about behavior that you choose to do or not to do, it's in human nature. Pride, envy, gluttony, wrath, lust, sloth and greed are inherent in human nature, this nature automatically takes over your willpower under stressful circumstances. Jesus is sinless and he cannot sin because he was born of the Holy Spirit, even under extremely stressful circumstance, that proves he is not average man, but God. He relied on the power of the Holy Spirit instead of his own willpower. When he was being tempted by Satan, he didn't rant, "f#$k you Satan, get lost," he rebuked Satan with the word of God from Deuteronomy.

Sin is something that you choose to do, hence why Jesus chose not to sin, told others to stop sinning, and he needed time to know the difference between good and evil per Isaiah 7:14,15, and needed to grow in stature/favor before God Luke 2:52. God does not need to grow in stature before God.

Jesus, a man, who was chosen as a servant according to Matt 12:18.

He was anointed above his companions, by God, because he loved righteousness and hated wickedness according to
Hebrews 1:9.

Jesus had to learn obedience and subsequently be perfected. Hebrews 5:8,9

Jesus is descended from Adam, Luke 3:38.

Jesus is a picture of what is possible for a man to have with God's anointing, which Jesus finally received at John's water baptism of repentance, just as others did after him.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

 

[Runningman]

No, in us all things are not held together and sustained by our word.

No. Jesus does not uphold literally all things by his word. The context is in regards to what God made through Jesus in these last days. This would be the church/Messianic age. According to Hebrews 1:1,2.

As head of the church, Jesus does indeed serve God in the functional capacity as Lord of the church, shepherd, high priest, and mediator between mankind and God Himself, but is not God. In this sense, Jesus upholds all things [in the church] with his word.

Col 1:19 -all the fullness of Gods Deity was gifted to dwell in the Son. Keyword "IN" that is the Fathers Deity. So the Son is the radiance of God's Glory and the exact representation of Gods very being. The eternal life in Jesus is the Father the only true God. They are one. One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ

I believe you are misunderstanding what it means for the fullness of God's deity to dwell in someone. It isn't something unique to Jesus, as Paul said.

Eph. 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Jesus, is God's Firstborn, (His spirit),and has always been the Son. And as stated all the fullness off the Deity was pleased to dwell in Him. He is all that the Father is and in that context He is God. He has always been the Son and in that context He is not God.

The firstborn of many brothers. Therefore, he himself isn't God. The best possibly analogy for the relationship between God, Jesus, and the church was already provided by the Bible. It's Father (God) and God's children such as Jesus and the church who are not themselves God.

Romans 8
29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

There are some here who start thread after thread trying to show what can't be true.

What's that?

For Jesus calls the Father His God and that states from Him the Father is greater and His God.

Amen. Scripture plainly states this. It is not a problem when one understands that Jesus is not himself God.

That eternal life or nature found in the Logos is the Fathers Deity without limit, (fullness)
In the beginning was the Logos and the nature of the Logos was God and the Logos was with His God and Father.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete

I am not sure what you think this passage from 1 John 1 means, but the disciples were not there at the literal beginning (of creation) to see, hear, or touch anything. They are referring to the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, the beginning of the church age, the beginning of the preaching and miracles. Jesus got all of the doctrines from God, not himself, and went around doing good and healing after God was with him. (Acts 10:37,38)

 

[Randy]

No. Jesus does not uphold literally all things by his word. The context is in regards to what God made through Jesus in these last days. This would be the church/Messianic age. According to Hebrews 1:1,2.

As head of the church, Jesus does indeed serve God in the functional capacity as Lord of the church, shepherd, high priest, and mediator between mankind and God Himself, but is not God. In this sense, Jesus upholds all things [in the church] with his word.


I believe you are misunderstanding what it means for the fullness of God's deity to dwell in someone. It isn't something unique to Jesus, as Paul said.

Eph. 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.


The firstborn of many brothers. Therefore, he himself isn't God. The best possibly analogy for the relationship between God, Jesus, and the church was already provided by the Bible. It's Father (God) and God's children such as Jesus and the church who are not themselves God.

Romans 8
29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.


What's that?

Amen. Scripture plainly states this. It is not a problem when one understands that Jesus is not himself God.


I am not sure what you think this passage from 1 John 1 means, but the disciples were not there at the literal beginning (of creation) to see, hear, or touch anything. They are referring to the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, the beginning of the church age, the beginning of the preaching and miracles. Jesus got all of the doctrines from God, not himself, and went around doing good and healing after God was with him. (Acts 10:37,38)

I am not misunderstanding that the honest reading in John is that the nature of the Logos is God. I have shown how that is so with Jesus being a begotten Son. Col 1:19 I have been given fullness in Christ but that is not the same as all fullness of the God Head dwelling in me as it does from Jesus's beginning. The Father and Jesus are One. Jesus and I are One.

If you doubt that nature, then read Hebrews 1 about that Son. If you still disagree with that testimony, then we disagree and don't need another 50 replies in repeating ourselves.

Hebrews 1:3- Jesus is all that the Father is who sustains all things by His powerful word. He is the true vine that nourishes all the branches that are found in Him. Those that live by feeding off Him will never die.

Col 1
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

 

[Runningman]

I am not misunderstanding that the honest reading in John is that the nature of the Logos is God. I have shown how that is so with Jesus being a begotten Son. Col 1:19 I have been given fullness in Christ but that is not the same as all fullness of the God Head dwelling in me as it does from Jesus's beginning. The Father and Jesus are One. Jesus and I are One.

If you doubt that nature, then read Hebrews 1 about that Son. If you still disagree with that testimony, then we disagree and don't need another 50 replies in repeating ourselves.

Hebrews 1:3- Jesus is all that the Father is who sustains all things by His powerful word. He is the true vine that nourishes all the branches that are found in Him. Those that live by feeding off Him will never die.

Col 1
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

I would simply refer you back to my previous post which clearly showed that you are indeed misunderstanding. Since you don’t seemed to have read it, please look it over once you have time and/or are open to it. Thanks.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Sin is something that you choose to do, hence why Jesus chose not to sin, told others to stop sinning, and he needed time to know the difference between good and evil per Isaiah 7:14,15, and needed to grow in stature/favor before God Luke 2:52. God does not need to grow in stature before God.

Is. 7:14-15 does NOT say he will reject sin or choose sin. It says he will reject EVIL and choose good. That's speaking of Jesus's character which directly reflects God's character, it's not about behavior. As long as you think it's about behavior, you don't get it. Jesus didn't "need" to grow in stature/favor before God, it's the fulfillment of Is. 7:14-15 that He grew in stature/favor before God, this is descriptive, not prescriptive.