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Unique, Not Only-Begotten

7thMoon said:
Yes, he did.

God is not a substance, thus this pure idolism.


It indicates a change of subject, not a transformation into an adjective or mass noun.


The God it was. A worder... notice where the other sentence should and does begin.


Greek has inflections for subjects and objects, and even passive verbs to switch subject and object.


The article is inflected in 4 cases plural or singular and is not a case, nor does it indicate an objective or nominative case.


The Greek article is incompetently thought to be a definite article, yet is absent 90% of the time when human names are used.
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I trust the Greek experts whose credentials are publicly known, over unknown posters on the internet.

I'm learning Greek. I freely confess my ignorance about the nances of Greek Grammar.

I rely on the recognized and vetted Greek experts, who both in commentary and the Bible versions they create affirm "the Word was God" is correct, an accurate translation of John's Greek.
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings Alfred Persson,

I find it interesting that you quote the above, and you may be interested in the following also:
Isaiah 55:8–11 (KJV): 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Your video clip about electromagnetism was interesting, and yes these items are building blocks of our present world. I have done some Physics and Chemistry studies, but even at the level that I achieved it raised in my mind more questions about the Atom, Gravity, Magnetism, Electricity and other things than I could answer. I consider that our real knowledge of these things is limited and possibly the array of scientists in this video may have some more of the answers. We can measure some of these things, but not sure if we can explain them. One minor detail that fascinated me is that the two different Sodium electrons emit slightly different frequencies.

Kind regards
Trevor
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I'm a Bible student, nothing more. It would appear from Colossians 1:17 Christ is the place of our Matrix, where it exists and has its being.

Virtual particles dancing in and out of existence, fascinates me. From the Mind of Christ, into the sphere of our existence?
 
Greetings Alfred Persson,
Alfred Persson said:
I'm a Bible student, nothing more. It would appear from Colossians 1:17 Christ is the place of our Matrix, where it exists and has its being.
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Not sure if I would apply the following as you have:
Colossians 1:17 (KJV): And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Alfred Persson said:
Virtual particles dancing in and out of existence, fascinates me. From the Mind of Christ, into the sphere of our existence?
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I am not sure if that is how electromagnetism works. I am also a firm believer that faith comes from hearing Romans 10:17, 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Alfred Persson said:
I trust the Greek experts whose credentials are publicly known, over unknown posters on the internet.

I'm learning Greek. I freely confess my ignorance about the nances of Greek Grammar.

I rely on the recognized and vetted Greek experts, who both in commentary and the Bible versions they create affirm "the Word was God" is correct, an accurate translation of John's Greek.
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Why not "God was the word"? It is almost correct. It is because they want God to be adjective or physical substance, which the God could never be.
 
Free said:
No. We’ve discussed this before and your understanding of the Greek is deficient at a very basic level, which is leading you to wrong conclusions. You give the definite article the very opposite meaning it is supposed to have. I’ve proven this by providing resources which support the obvious—definite articles mean they’re definite. Every single resource I look at supports this. You have been, unsurprisingly, unable to provide a single resource to support your position on the matter.
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:topic
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
And yet each one only heard it in their native tongue, they didn't hear 120 languages all at once like a background noise. It sounded like a background noise to the unbelievers who mocked them, but only native tongue to the believers.

You think it's ability, I think it's courage. Did the Holy Spirit give John the ability to speak and write in Greek? Or reveal Christ's true form and the end time vision when he was "in spirit"?

Again, how do you know they didn't know any foreign language before that? The Ethiopian eunuch had no language barrier when Phillip approached him.

Then that definition is even closer to loud public proclamation than mere oral expression.
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:topic
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
There's an interesting theory, that in Matt. 1, Jesus's genealogy, the word "husband” in Joseph the husband of Mary actually refers to a "male guardian". For a married woman, that's her husband, but for a single woman, that's usually her father or brother, that was the local custom at the time, therefore this Jospeh may be the father, not husband, of Mary, which would male Matt. 1 the genealogy of Mary, whereas Lk. 3 is the genealogy of Joseph. This also solves the mystery of the "missing generation" in Matt. 1.
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That theory is based on unbelief as it's in the testimony that Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son of God.

Joseph was going to quietly divorce Mary when he found out she was pregnant because he is not the father of that child.

Whose Son is the Christ?
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

“The son of David,” they replied.

43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
 
Runningman said:
No I hold the same beliefs as the early church. I assume you're a Trinitarian. Your beliefs are not stated in the Bible neither explicitly nor are they described.
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No you do not. I don't know why you think that. Unless you recruit more biblical unitarians your going to spend lots of time fielding replies on a "christian forum"
Runningman said:
John 1:10 isn't about Jesus. Jesus repeatedly said he came from above to do the will of the Father, such as is the case in John 3 and John 6 just to name a couple examples. If he was already in the world then he wasn't sent from above. John 1:10 refers to God the Father because, in accordance with God the Father was already working on planet Earth as the whole of the Old Testament testifies. John 1:9 refers to the True Light who gives light to men coming into the world - men like Jesus who came into the world from above, for example.

I hope that helps. I guess it won't.
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its very clear language but you can not hear anything in regard to the Son who was before the world began. Which was believed and testified about Jesus.
John 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was created[u]by him, but the world did not recognize him.
(u)
tn Or “was made”; Grk “came into existence.”
 
SolaScriptura said:
WHY would the Father Who is Almighty God, Create the universe through a created person? This is utter nonsense!

Genesis 1.1 says "in the beginning GOD Created the heavens and the earth"

Nothing about THROUGH anyone!

These THERORIES are RUBBISH
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What do you believe was "from" the Father in regard to the person of the Son?
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
God created through the Son
The Source of all things (from whom) has been made clear to all.
Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe
 
Randy said:
What do you believe was "from" the Father in regard to the person of the Son?
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
God created through the Son
The Source of all things (from whom) has been made clear to all.
Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe
Click to expand...

WHY would Almighty God the Father, Create through a Created person???

This is utter RUBBISH!
 
SolaScriptura said:
WHY would Almighty God the Father, Create through a Created person???

This is utter RUBBISH!
Click to expand...

Its clear God did create through the Son as in all things He does what He is pleased to do.

Just because you state something is garbage doesn't make it so.

You didn't answer my question.
What do you believe was "From" the Father in regard to the person of the Son?

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
 
Randy said:
Its clear God did create through the Son as in all things He does what He is pleased to do.

Just because you state something is garbage doesn't make it so.

You didn't answer my question.
What do you believe was "From" the Father in regard to the person of the Son?

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
Click to expand...

this "creed" is HERETICAL!
 
SolaScriptura said:
IF this is correct Biblically, which is it not, then WHO Created THROUGH God the Father?
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Do you believe "anything" is from the Father in regard to the person of the Son?

"From all things come" -The Father alone

About the person of the Father who sits on the throne.
Rev 4:11
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Unlike His Son the Father has not received anything from any other being. Neither Diety nor authority nor any inheritance and it was HE, the one living in Jesus who spoke to us by His Son in these last days. From Him we have been blessed with every blessing in Christ. From Him every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. He so loved the world that He gave His Son in our behalf that we might live through Jesus. He granted Jesus to have life in Himself.It is He alone that Jesus calls God as well as His God and our God, His Father and our Father. And He reconciled us to "Himself" through Christ blood on the cross. And Jesus has made us to be a Kingdom of priests to serve His God and Father.
 
Runningman said:
No I hold the same beliefs as the early church. I assume you're a Trinitarian. Your beliefs are not stated in the Bible neither explicitly nor are they described.


John 1:10 isn't about Jesus. Jesus repeatedly said he came from above to do the will of the Father, such as is the case in John 3 and John 6 just to name a couple examples. If he was already in the world then he wasn't sent from above. John 1:10 refers to God the Father because, in accordance with God the Father was already working on planet Earth as the whole of the Old Testament testifies. John 1:9 refers to the True Light who gives light to men coming into the world - men like Jesus who came into the world from above, for example.

I hope that helps. I guess it won't.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by EARLY CHURCH?
 
Randy said:
Do you believe "anything" is from the Father in regard to the person of the Son?

"From all things come" -The Father alone

About the person of the Father who sits on the throne.
Rev 4:11
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Unlike His Son the Father has not received anything from any other being. Neither Diety nor authority nor any inheritance and it was HE, the one living in Jesus who spoke to us by His Son in these last days. From Him we have been blessed with every blessing in Christ. From Him every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. He so loved the world that He gave His Son in our behalf that we might live through Jesus. He granted Jesus to have life in Himself.It is He alone that Jesus calls God as well as His God and our God, His Father and our Father. And He reconciled us to "Himself" through Christ blood on the cross. And Jesus has made us to be a Kingdom of priests to serve His God and Father.
Click to expand...

Hebrews 2:10 reads:

"For it became Him, for Whom are all things, and through Whom are all things, in bringing many children to glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings”

This verse is obout God the Father. "FOR" and "THROUGH" are the same Greek preposition, “διά”, in the genitive case, as it is in Hebrews 1:2, where is used for Jesus Christ, "through (διά) Whom He made the universe"

IF, in Hebrews 1:2, the preposition means "Creation by the Father THROUGH Jesus Christ", then the SAME has to be true in Hebrews 2:10, where we read of Creation THROUGH the Father! As Jesus Christ is the other mentioned Person in this passage in Hebrews 2, it is conclusive that Jesus Christ Created THROUGH God the Father.

Now try to prove this wrong
 
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