Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Runningman]

You’re fallaciously begging the question. This is made all the more apparent since Thomas clearly thought Jesus was God:

Jhn 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (ESV)

That is in addition to what John writes in his prologue and records of what Jesus says about himself. The disciples also worshiped Jesus on several occasions, and believed he came from God, as he said.

He didn't say "You are God." He was either praying out loud to the Father or he was in shock that Jesus had holes in his hands.

 

[Free]

You have head knowledge of what the plain text of most Bible say, but you didn't actually look into it beyond the surface level.

Don’t presume to know what others know, just because you differ. He might just know more than you.

John 1:1 is actually a mistranslation, likely motivated by bias. This is evident by the mass of scripture that contradicts it.

Where is your evidence?

In John 1:1 he absence of the article (“the”) before “God” in the Greek makes the word “God” qualitative, which can be understood as “the Word had the character of God,” meaning that it was godly. There literally isn't a scholarly or academic way to make the word literally God Himself.

It means he was God in nature. That is the only legitimate meaning.

 

[Runningman]

Where is your evidence?

The evidence is that it doesn't stand to biblical scrutiny. "God is just a talking voice saying words" isn't a biblical doctrine. I am sure it's personification.

It means he was God in nature. That is the only legitimate meaning.

God in nature, i.e., godly. Yes for sure I think we agree here.

 

[7thMoon]

The disciples were the ones speaking in other languages, as enabled by the Holy Spirit. It really can’t be more clear than that.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? (ESV)

I think the Greek they spoke a language, and the holy spirit did the translation. EDIT: And you ignore verse 8.

 

[Free]

He didn't say "You are God." He was either praying out loud to the Father or he was in shock that Jesus had holes in his hands.

No. He is addressing Jesus directly. The Greek literally says, “The Lord of me and the God of me.” There is no other way to understand it as Thomas claiming that Jesus was his Lord and his God. As I’ve pointed out before, this is a consistent theme through John’s gospel and the rest of the NT.

It’s rather ironic that you claim someone else has bias for believing that the disciples believed Jesus was God, yet, when a very clear and plain statement directed to Jesus acknowledges him as God, you want to reinterpret to mean something else, with no basis for doing so.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If "Son of God" is equal to "God the Son" then it is your belief is that people who are resurrected become Lord God Almighty?

Jesus is the only legitimate begotten son of God, the firstborn among the dead, all the others are joined heirs adopted by God through him, that doesn't make "that people" equal with him. None of "that people" is the king of kings and lord of lords, only he is.

 

[Free]

The evidence is that it doesn't stand to biblical scrutiny. "God is just a talking voice saying words" isn't a biblical doctrine. I am sure it's personification.

That isn’t evidence, that’s unsupported opinion.

God in nature, i.e., godly. Yes for sure I think we agree here.

No, God in nature; not “godly.” Only God is God in nature. Again, you reinterpreting something that is plain and clear without basis for doing so.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There is only one way to understand verse 4: “…began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.”

The only understanding of this verse is that it was the speaking of other languages that was enabled by the Spirit. Whereas verse 11 (and 6 and 8) is about hearing what was spoken. There is not only nothing to suggest the Holy Spirit enabled the hearing of other tongues, but it doesn’t make sense to suggest it.

Verse 4 clearly states the disciples spoke in other languages, enabled by the Holy Spirit. Yet, in verses 6, 8, and 11 all have the listeners saying that they were hearing in their own languages. Hearing something in one’s own language isn’t a miracle when someone else is speaking in that language.

Not necessarily. Some of them may be tongue tied, may be afraid of any public speaking, the Holy Spirit empowered them to speak out and praise the Lord. They didn't marvel at the utterance of foreign language, they marveled at the HEARING of the words spoken in thier native tongue.

And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? (Acts 2:8)

 

[7thMoon]

Not necessarily. Some of them may be tongue tied, may be afraid of any public speaking, the Holy Spirit empowered them to speak out and praise the Lord. They didn't marvel at the utterance of foreign language, they marveled at the HEARING of the words spoken in their native tongue.

And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? (Acts 2:8)

Verse 8 means the lips didn't sync with the "tongue" utterances.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

None of them believed Jesus is God. What you have is called a bias. You make an exception for one person that you don't make for the others who did the exact same things.

Anyway, your premise was debunked. Care to take another swing at something Jesus did that allegedly made him God?

Yes they do:

When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" (Matt. 8:28-29)

 

[7thMoon]

Yes they do:

When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" (Matt. 8:28-29)

[John 3:2 KJV] 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

 

[Free]

Not necessarily. Some of them may be tongue tied, may be afraid of any public speaking, the Holy Spirit empowered them to speak out and praise the Lord. They didn't marvel at the utterance of foreign language, they marveled at the HEARING of the words spoken in thier native tongue.

And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? (Acts 2:8)

Yes, but you are removing that verse from the context. Again, verse 4 is clear that “the Holy Spirit gave them utterance,” that is, enabled the disciples to speak in other languages. Of course the listeners were marvelling at the hearing of their native tongues, because the disciples were all Galileans:

Act 2:7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? (ESV)

The disciples were all Galileans, being enabled to speaking in other languages by the Holy Spirit. That is the only miracle here. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit enabling hearing; that has to read into the text, whereas the miraculous speaking is explicitly stated.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Verse 8 means the lips didn't sync with the "tongue" utterances.

I don't think they were having an experience like watching a foreign movie with English voice-over, if that's what you're suggesting.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

[John 3:2 KJV] 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

That's Nicodemus's opinion, he only recognized Jesus as a rabbi like the OT prophets. He didn't know Jesus is the son of God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, but you are removing that verse from the context. Again, verse 4 is clear that “the Holy Spirit gave them utterance,” that is, enabled the disciples to speak in other languages. Of course the listeners were marvelling at the hearing of their native tongues, because the disciples were all Galileans:

Act 2:7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? (ESV)

The disciples were all Galileans, being enabled to speaking in other languages by the Holy Spirit. That is the only miracle here. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit enabling hearing; that has to read into the text, whereas the miraculous speaking is explicitly stated.

How do you know they can't speak any other languages? The Lord instructed apostle John in Rev. 1:11 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia." I don't think Revelation was originally written in Galilean, if that's a real language instead of an accent, or anybody of the seven churches spoke Galilean.

 

[7thMoon]

How do you know they can't speak any other languages? The Lord instructed apostle John in Rev. 1:11 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia." I don't think Revelation was originally written in Galilean, if that's a real language instead of an accent, or anybody of the seven churches spoke Galilean.

It was written in Greek. The HS didn't puppet the apostles to speak languages at different times. The sounds were all at once to every believing ear. Those who thought they were drunk didn't receive the miracle.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It was written in Greek. The HS didn't puppet the apostles to speak languages at different times. The sounds were all at once to every believing ear. Those who thought they were drunk didn't receive the miracle.

Yes, it's about HEARING the praise of God, it's about being baptized with the Holy Spirit. And that took place before they were baptized with water.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

He didn't say "You are God." He was either praying out loud to the Father or he was in shock that Jesus had holes in his hands.

Are you praying out loud to the Father when you blurt out OMG?

 

[Runningman]

No. He is addressing Jesus directly. The Greek literally says, “The Lord of me and the God of me.” There is no other way to understand it as Thomas claiming that Jesus was his Lord and his God. As I’ve pointed out before, this is a consistent theme through John’s gospel and the rest of the NT.

It’s rather ironic that you claim someone else has bias for believing that the disciples believed Jesus was God, yet, when a very clear and plain statement directed to Jesus acknowledges him as God, you want to reinterpret to mean something else, with no basis for doing so.

And Thomas didn't say you (Jesus) are the Lord and God of me. Jesus taught all of the disciples that the only true God is the Father. He didn't teach Thomas that. I see no reason to think Thomas meant what you seem to think he said. If Thomas really believed Jesus is God then he is on an island alone. No one went around saying Jesus is God, not even Jesus, not even God, or Paul.

 

[Runningman]

Are you praying out loud to the Father when you blurt out OMG?

Yes.