Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[JLB]

Greetings again JLB,

No, Jesus is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

Did you know that the Son is the LORD God, YHWH of the OT, Who created the heavens and the earth?


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


That is was, the Spirit of the LORD Jesus Christ in the Old Testament prophets saying “thus says the LORD” (YHWH).

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Example:


The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1


again


For I am the LORD your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
Isaiah 43:3

I, even I, am the LORD,
And besides Me there is no savior.
Isaiah 43:11


I am the LORD, your Holy One,
The Creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 43:15


again


And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved. Joel 2:32


Paul quotes this verse in Romans referring to calling on the name of Jesus as LORD (YHWH) to be saved.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13


Jesus is the name of the LORD; YHWH the LORD God of the OT.







JLB

 

[JLB]

Well it's good to see you believe Jesus is the only begotten of the Father. But it's more than that isn't it? The same Jesus on earth and in heaven calls that one His God.

As any son should honor their Father.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Well it's good to see you believe Jesus is the only begotten of the Father. But it's more than that isn't it? The same Jesus on earth and in heaven calls that one His God.

Wouldn’t you agree that kind begets after it’s own kind?


Man begets man

God begets God


Do you understand that Jesus was begotten before the foundation of the world, and created the heavens and the earth?





JLB

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings dodadams and Greetings again JLB,

What does son of God mean?

My post before yours quoted Luke 1:34-35 and this speaks of the fact that Jesus is The Son of God because the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is the father of the human Jesus.

I also quoted John 1:14 and this attributes the glory of the character of Jesus "full of grace and truth" to the fact that Jesus is the "only begottern of the Father" and hence this is an additional aspect of Jesus as The Son of God.

Paul seems to endorse these two aspects of what the expression "The Son of God" represents (depending upon how you understand these verses), but he also adds that Jesus is "The Son of God" by virtue of his resurrection:
Romans 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Is Jesus Lord?

Yes, Psalm 110:1, David's Lord and our Lord. The rest of your questions seem to reflect your theology which I do not accept. My fellowship's "Instructor" for Under 8 y.o.: Who made all things? God. What is He called? The Father. Who is Jesus Christ? God's own son. Where was He Born? In Bethlehem.

Jesus is the name of the LORD; YHWH the LORD God of the OT.

No, Jesus is the Son of God.

God begets God

God does not beget God or a God. This is contrary to the definition of "God" and what "God" represents.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Randy]

Wouldn’t you agree that kind begets after it’s own kind?


Man begets man

God begets God


Do you understand that Jesus was begotten before the foundation of the world, and created the heavens and the earth?





JLB

I Know that all the fullness of God was gifted to dwell in Him. Col 19:1 But we are discussing the "Him" not the Deity that dwells in that Him. (The Father) In this gifting Jesus is the only like to like begotten Son of the Father and one with the Father. So from within His being by the Deity He is the First and Last but the Him, His Spirit , is Gods Firstborn. I know from above with these words "Jesus is all that the Father is".

 

[Randy]

As any son should honor their Father.




JLB

As well as their God.

 

[Randy]

Greetings again SolaScriptures,


Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:36 (KJV): Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


John 20:30–31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Do you not believe He ascended to where He was before? That before Abraham was born He was?

I would state the Son who was, His Spirit, was in that body God prepared for Him.
"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me.

The word of life who was with the Father in the beginning appeared. They testify about that eternal life who was with the Father in the beginning.
1John Their testimony about the same Jesus, the Christ Son of God. The living bread that came down from heaven as Jesus Himself stated.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Randy,

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Do you not believe He ascended to where He was before?

I will reserve my assessment of this.

That before Abraham was born He was?

I have a different view of John 8:58. Jesus was in the plan and purpose of God before Abraham came on the scene Genesis 3:15.

I would state the Son who was, His Spirit, was in that body God prepared for Him.
"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

I do not accept that Jesus' spirit contained his consciousness after his death. Jesus was dead for three days.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me.

Based upon Psalm 40:6-8 I have a different perspective on this NT quotation of this passage. Yes, the body of jesus was specially prepared, but not to receive a pre-incarnate Jesus.

The word of life who was with the Father in the beginning appeared.

This is figurative language.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings Randy,

I will reserve my assessment of this.

I have a different view of John 8:58. Jesus was in the plan and purpose of God before Abraham came on the scene Genesis 3:15.

I do not accept that Jesus' spirit contained his consciousness after his death. Jesus was dead for three days.

Based upon Psalm 40:6-8 I have a different perspective on this NT quotation of this passage. Yes, the body of jesus was specially prepared, but not to receive a pre-incarnate Jesus.

This is figurative language.

Kind regards
Trevor

Could you make a list of all figurative language in the NT so I can know the difference between what is literal and what is figurative?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings wondering,

Could you make a list of all figurative language in the NT so I can know the difference between what is literal and what is figurative?

1 John 1:1"the Word of life" is similar language to "the Word" in John 1:1 and I consider "the Word" in John 1:1 is a personification similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" in Proverbs 8 who was with God in the creation.

Lind regards
Trevor

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings wondering,

1 John 1:1"the Word of life" is similar language to "the Word" in John 1:1 and I consider "the Word" in John 1:1 is a personification similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" in Proverbs 8 who was with God in the creation.

Lind regards
Trevor

I didn't mention the OT.
That has different types of language within it.

The NT is a factual account and is to be taken literally.

 

[JLB]

My post before yours quoted Luke 1:34-35 and this speaks of the fact that Jesus is The Son of God because the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is the father of the human Jesus.

The Son was begotten before creation.

The Son created the heavens and the earth.

The Son then became flesh, became a man, to take on the sin of the world and die on the cross.


Do you acknowledge that the Son created the heavens and the earth.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


again

• For by Him all things were created

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16



The Son created all things… according to the will of His Father.






JLB

 

[JLB]

I Know that all the fullness of God was gifted to dwell in Him. Col 19:1 But we are discussing the "Him" not the Deity that dwells in that Him. (The Father) In this gifting Jesus is the only like to like begotten Son of the Father and one with the Father. So from within His being by the Deity He is the First and Last but the Him, His Spirit , is Gods Firstborn. I know from above with these words "Jesus is all that the Father is".

As well as their God.

Do you believe the Son created all things?

 

[SolaScriptura]

The Son was begotten before creation

by who and how?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again wondering and JLB,

I didn't mention the OT. That has different types of language within it.
The NT is a factual account and is to be taken literally.

The language of the NT is often based upon the concepts and figures introduced in the OT. Figurative language adds a depth and richness to any expression. One book that deals extensively with the various figures of speech is Figures of Speech used in the Bible by Ethelbert W Bullinger 1899, 1104 pages. Some of Bullinger's work on Figures of Speech have been added to The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge by Jerome H Smith 1992, 1657 pages. This also has a Figure of Speech Index at the back of the book, pages 1645-1657.

The Son was begotten before creation.

by who and how?

Did God the Father create another God? What is the true meaning of the Father/Son relationship? I understand "only begotten" to refer to the conception and birth of Jesus and as such John 1:14 is parallel with Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35.

The Son created the heavens and the earth.

I believe that Jesus is the Creator of the New Creation and he was also the reason and purpose that God the Father had in view when God created the Edenic Creation.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Did God the Father create another God? What is the true meaning of the Father/Son relationship? I understand "only begotten" to refer to the conception and birth of Jesus and as such John 1:14 is parallel with Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35.

Jesus Christ is YHWH

 

[Randy]

Do you believe the Son created all things?

I believe it was the Father living in Him doing His work. As in God created by Him just as God spoke to us in these last days by Him.

Before you quote your favorite Hebrews verses why did you not consider that this is the very same writer?

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again wondering and JLB,

The language of the NT is often based upon the concepts and figures introduced in the OT. Figurative language adds a depth and richness to any expression. One book that deals extensively with the various figures of speech is Figures of Speech used in the Bible by Ethelbert W Bullinger 1899, 1104 pages. Some of Bullinger's work on Figures of Speech have been added to The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge by Jerome H Smith 1992, 1657 pages. This also has a Figure of Speech Index at the back of the book, pages 1645-1657.

Could you post some of this figurative speech found in the NT please?

It's very nice that someone wrote a book about it,,,,
but I may not agree with the author of that book.

I believe the NT is a book of history and everything it tells is based on real facts.

This is what you stated in post no. 109:

I have a different view of John 8:58. Jesus was in the plan and purpose of God before Abraham came on the scene Genesis 3:15.

I do not accept that Jesus' spirit contained his consciousness after his death. Jesus was dead for three days.

Based upon Psalm 40:6-8 I have a different perspective on this NT quotation of this passage. Yes, the body of jesus was specially prepared, but not to receive a pre-incarnate Jesus.

This is figurative language.

Kind regards
Trevor


Jesus was in the plan and purpose of God from the beginning of time...yes, before Abraham came on the scene.

What do you mean that Jesus did not contain His consciousness after His death?
Did He resurrect?
Was He a zombie till then?
Was he dead and did nothing during the 3 days?

HOW was Jesus body prepared if not to receive an incarnated Jesus?

The NT tells truth - I can't think of any figurative language. Even when Jesus was in the desert being tempted, the language was not figurative.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again wondering,

Could you post some of this figurative speech found in the NT please?
It's very nice that someone wrote a book about it,,,, but I may not agree with the author of that book.
I believe the NT is a book of history and everything it tells is based on real facts.

If you have access to the Companion Bible, Appendix 6 also lists Bullinger's Figures of Speech, but it also gives half a column on the importance of understanding these figures of speech in their particular context in order to come to a correct understanding of a particular passage. Perhaps the figure or metaphor or simile of "grass" compared to the "seed" of the word in the following is reasonably obvious:
1 Peter 1:22–25 (KJV): 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

What do you mean that Jesus did not contain His consciousness after His death? Did He resurrect? Was He a zombie till then?
Was he dead and did nothing during the 3 days?

I believe man is mortal and when he dies his thinking ceases. As such I do not believe in immortal souls, or an immaterial spirit that preserves our consciousness after death. Jesus was dead three days and then God raised him from the dead.

HOW was Jesus body prepared if not to receive an incarnated Jesus?

The OT context of Psalm 40:6-8 speaks about a voluntary slave or servant with a willing ear, and the concept of a "body" in Greek or Roman terms is that of a slave or servant. Jesus was fully prepared and equipped in his mind and body and being to fulfill the will of God as God's servant Isaiah 42:1.

The NT tells truth - I can't think of any figurative language. Even when Jesus was in the desert being tempted, the language was not figurative.

Narrative and prose are literal, but there are many figures of speech.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Randy]

Greetings Randy,

I will reserve my assessment of this.

You speak of a Jesus not as a being who existed but as a plan or purpose in Gods mind so you have stated your belief.
Are you a Unitarian?

I have a different view of John 8:58. Jesus was in the plan and purpose of God before Abraham came on the scene Genesis 3:15.

Jesus spoke as a witness of Abraham hence His answer to the sarcasm of His accusers , "you are not yet 50 years old and you have "seen" Abraham"

I do not accept that Jesus' spirit contained his consciousness after his death. Jesus was dead for three days.

Its stated of Him put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. That He went and preached to the spirits in prison. I would think those spirits were aware and able to hear Jesus's words.
Man can't kill the soul.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Based upon Psalm 40:6-8 I have a different perspective on this NT quotation of this passage. Yes, the body of jesus was specially prepared, but not to receive a pre-incarnate Jesus.

The writer of Hebrews stated:
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

This is figurative language.

No a body was prepared for Him.
You have Johns testimony even before the 12 understood.
The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.

Kind regards
Trevor